RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

TwoMonthsOff · 07-01-2020 11:30AM

There is a protest planned for the morning of the 17th, 11am at Dublin Castle. Most normal people will be working I'd imagine.

gormdubhgorm · 07-01-2020 11:30AM

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Yes or course they were by & large a good force with many Catholics in their ranks, but that logic doesn't apply anymore. Nowadays we must look back and recognise the the RIC & DMP as Nazi like, terrible people who sought the genocide of the Irish people!

Or at least that's how several posters here would have you believe.

Exactly the knuckledraggers want to rewrite history. The RIC were Irish too.
Plus if the OP is so pro Ireland and anti anything English why is this thread not in Teach na nGealt forum? It is instead being discussed in the language of their former colonial masters. With no shame

Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam

What is the excuse now nearly 100 years after the Free State?
Nearly 80 years after the ROI act.

The truth is many like the OP even though they consider themselves Irish republicans do not understand history, do not speak thier own language regularly, nor make the effort. They are a watery mythical type of Irishness who pretend not to be interested in anything British, but are consumed by it's popular culture.
Plus on top of that they have a limited knowledge/narrowminded viewpoint of history.

The two RIC killed in Solohedbeg 21 January 1919 for example

Should they and many like them be just forgotten or a footnote in most versions of Irish history?

Constable Patrick O’Connell was 30 years old, he was from Coachford in Co Cork and was going to get married. James McDonnell was a constable as well, a native Irish speaker. McDonnell was from Belmullet in Co Mayo. In his case it was particularly sad as McDonnell was a 56-year-old widower and the father of seven children.

Plus as Varakdar said we used to have the same craic about Irish people who fought for the British army in WWI they were written out of history for decades.
That is not history that is a selective history, a selective memory.
Many fought there because they needed the money, some fought because they believed it would get Home Rule and followed Redmond's call.

So Irish fellas doing thier job earning money for thier families to keep themselves alive like James McDonnell are just erased from history because it does not suit a narrow republican narrative.
In my view McDonnell in particular was more of an Irishman than many of those who claim to be Irish today. They deserve at least to be remembered.

marieholmfan · 07-01-2020 11:31AM

markodaly wrote: »

Even though this is a recommendation from an all-party committee?

The rest of your post is a reminder of why we won't have a UI within our lifetimes.

50% + 1.

Tzardine · 07-01-2020 11:31AM

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

There is a protest planned for the morning of the 17th, 11am at Dublin Castle. Most normal people will be working I'd imagine.

Do you have any more info on this? Who is organising it?

is_that_so · 07-01-2020 11:32AM

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

There is a protest planned for the morning of the 17th, 11am at Dublin Castle. Most normal people will be working I'd imagine.

Probably multiple ones as the usual suspects will not stand shoulder to shoulder.

Sean.3516 · 07-01-2020 11:32AM

jmcc wrote: »

That's so cluelessly f*cktarded that it isn't in the same universe as "wrong". Ireland was not part of Great Britain. Thinking that Ireland was part of Great Britain is the kind of thing that morons who have no idea of history and geography do. The Irish people had no vote on the Union that created the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Ireland was occupied. That's why millions of Irish people died from starvation and murder over the centuries. The Unionist John Bruton has been pushing this crap about the WoI being a civil warfor years. He is an idiot. Go learn some Irish history rather than listening to gobsh!tes like Bruton.

Regards...jmcc

You can say that Ireland shouldn’t have been a part of Great Britain or that they were forced to be a part of it or whatever but as a matter of fact Ireland was a part of the nation state known as Great Britain.

Occupied countries typically don’t have representation in the parliaments of the country that occupies them.

markodaly · 07-01-2020 11:32AM

Sean.3516 wrote: »

My point is that the WoI was a war of secession. One part of Great Britain attempting to leave the whole and be independent. All this “occupation” rubbish is just Fenian mythology.

You can tell by the language they use straight away that they don't have much upstairs. Their sentences are usually littered with terms like 'crown forces' or 'occupation'.

Of course, the reality was that most Irish people wanted some sort of self-rule at that stage. The IPP and their success in getting Home Rule passed in 1914 was proof of that.

However, not everyone was comfortable with violence to achieve something that was impossible. Hence why the perpetrators of the rising were spat at by the people of Dublin.

marieholmfan · 07-01-2020 11:33AM

Sean.3516 wrote: »

You can say that Ireland shouldn’t have been a part of Great Britain or that they were forced to be a part of it or whatever but as a matter of fact Ireland was a part of the nation state known as Great Britain.

Occupied countries typically don’t have representation in the parliaments of the country that occupies them.

It literally wasn't.

markodaly · 07-01-2020 11:34AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who is airbrushing them out of history? Their part in our history is well documented and acknowledged.
Not in the misty eyed way you want, but to say they are being airbrushed out is just entirely wrong.

Yet, they are the only group of Irish people who should not be commemorated.

is_that_so · 07-01-2020 11:35AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They didn't 'recommend' this commemoration.

They recommended that 'consideration should be given to the organisation of specific initiatives to commemorate the RIC and DMP'.

That allowed them to also turn down the idea.

OK, you really need to sort out your pronouns here!

Why would any government turn down a considered and informed recommendation by a non-partisan expert group?

Sean.3516 · 07-01-2020 11:35AM

marieholmfan wrote: »

It literally wasn't.

Yes. When the Nazis occupied Poland and France they made sure to give them seats in the Reichstag.

Sean.3516 · 07-01-2020 11:38AM

I didn’t say that Ireland was never occupied by Great Britain. Obviously it was at some point. But by the time 1914-1919 this occupation didn’t exist anymore and Ireland was integrated into Great Britain as part of that nation state.

Britain’s official name was “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.”

jmcc · 07-01-2020 11:38AM

markodaly wrote: »

You can tell by the language they use straight away that they don't have much upstairs.

You are not exactly a stable genius yourself. And the Loyalist troll gave himself away with the "Fenian" reference.

Regards...jmcc

markodaly · 07-01-2020 11:38AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is not in FG's gift to deny a UI or unionists or you. The 'people' will decide that one.
And we have seen, the people gave Leo and FG a bounce when they stood up for Irish people north and south and are getting pilloried by elected councils and ordinary people right across the political spectrum when they veer towards the John Bruton wing.

100% it is the people that will decide this, especially moderate Unionists and middle-class Catholics.

If we in the South cannot get over something that happened 100 years ago, then forget ever winning over that group to the idea of a UI.

What is happening now, is pure opportunism by some mayors and councils. Remember, it was an all-party committee that backed this recommendation, now many of them are running scared in an election year. So much for mature debate.

07-01-2020 11:38AM

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

There is a protest planned for the morning of the 17th, 11am at Dublin Castle. Most normal people will be working I'd imagine.

Have you a link? I’ll book it off if it’s happening and I’d urge anyone else to do the same if they can.

07-01-2020 11:39AM

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

If people would like to sign the petition below that rejects the commemorations, please do.

https://www.change.org/p/fine-gael-don-t-commemorate-the-black-and-tans

One quick point about the petition link: change.org and the likes are pretty much useless. You might as well be asking people to thank a Facebook post as sign something on change.

There's an actual Oireachtas petition site that can be used where the people with any power are obliged to act when it receives a certain number of signatories. Much better to use them for anything Ireland-related. I know it isn't yourself who set this up, most likely, but just so everyone knows.

FrancieBrady · 07-01-2020 11:40AM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Exactly the knuckledraggers want to rewrite history. The RIC were Irish too.
Plus if the OP is so pro Ireland and anti anything English why is this thread not in Teach na nGealt forum? It is instead being discussed in the language of their former colonial masters. With no shame

Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam

What is the excuse now nearly 100 years after the Free State?
Nearly 80 years after the ROI act.

The truth is many like the OP even though they consider themselves Irish republicans do not understand history, do not speak thier own language regularly, nor make the effort. They are a watery mythical type of Irishness who pretend not to be interested in anything British, but are consumed by it's popular culture.
Plus on top of that they have a limited knowledge/narrowminded viewpoint of history.

The two RIC killed in Solohedbeg 21 January 1919 for example

Should they and many like them be just forgotten or a footnote in most versions of Irish history?

Constable Patrick O’Connell was 30 years old, he was from Coachford in Co Cork and was going to get married. James McDonnell was a constable as well, a native Irish speaker. McDonnell was from Belmullet in Co Mayo. In his case it was particularly sad as McDonnell was a 56-year-old widower and the father of seven children.

Plus as Varakdar said we used to have the same craic about Irish people who fought for the British army in WWI they were written out of history for decades.
That is not history that is a selective history, a selective memory.
Many fought there because they needed the money, some fought because they believed it would get Home Rule and followed Redmond's call.

So Irish fellas doing thier job earning money for thier families to keep themselves alive like James McDonnell are just erased from history because it does not suit a narrow republican narrative.
In my view McDonnell in particular was more of an Irishman than many of those who claim to be Irish today. They deserve at least to be remembered.

WHO HAS ERASED them from history? They are a large part of OUR history and fully acknowledged in all their brutal glory.
I'll remind you again, the Gestapo where German men and women. Does that mean they should be blindly commemorated?

And nobody forgot the men and women who died in WW1, DeValera himself ungrudging sanctioned the payment of Lutyens to design the memorial at Islandbridge.

Leo should read the history of his own party leaders before opening his ill-informed mouth tbh.

W.T. Cosgrove wrote:

this is a big question of Remembrance and Honour to the dead and it must always be a matter of interest to the head of the Government to see that a project so dear to a big section of the citizens should be a success"

Sean.3516 · 07-01-2020 11:42AM

jmcc wrote: »

You are not exactly a stable genius yourself. And the Loyalist troll gave himself away with the "Fenian" reference.

Regards...jmcc

100% catholic boy from the Republic of Ireland here.

And wasn’t trolling. Just pointing out some facts that don’t quite align with the “Ooh Aah, Up the Ra” mythology.

FrancieBrady · 07-01-2020 11:43AM

is_that_so wrote: »

OK, you really need to sort out your pronouns here!
Why would any government turn down a considered and informed recommendation by a non-partisan expert group?

They recommended that 'consideration be given'. They DIDN'T - knowing the sensitivities - recommend that it should be done.

TwoMonthsOff · 07-01-2020 11:43AM

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Have you a link? I’ll book it off if it’s happening and I’d urge anyone else to do the same if they can.

I'll get more information for you now. As the lads said above it will be probably one of many protests.

Id go but I've no interest in standing beside shinners and communists like Saoradh.

jmcc · 07-01-2020 11:45AM

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I didn’t say that Ireland was never occupied by Great Britain. Obviously it was at some point. But by the time 1914-1919 this occupation didn’t exist anymore and Ireland was integrated into Great Britain as part of that nation state.

The whole move from Home Rule to Independence must have been missing from the John Bruton colouring book of history for little neo-Unionists (complete with red, white and blue edible crayons).

Britain’s official name was “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.”

Are you intellectually challenged are just trolling? That was not Britain's "name".

Regards...jmcc

FrancieBrady · 07-01-2020 11:46AM

markodaly wrote: »

100% it is the people that will decide this, especially moderate Unionists and middle-class Catholics.

If we in the South cannot get over something that happened 100 years ago, then forget ever winning over that group to the idea of a UI.

What is happening now, is pure opportunism by some mayors and councils. Remember, it was an all-party committee that backed this recommendation, now many of them are running scared in an election year. So much for mature debate.

Moderate Unionists wouldn't expect us to commemorate this, as middle class Catholics (why are you being sectarian here???) would not expect Unionists to commemorate the IRA or the 1916 leaders.

Leo thought he could bludgeon this through and point out the detractors as the 'ooh ah up the RA' brigade as some are doing here.

Massive fail again Leo.

Nift · 07-01-2020 11:46AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Somebody looking for 'mature' reactions comes out with 'oh yeah boy do we hate the English'.

Who 'hates' the English?

I hate some of the things the English did and continue to do.

I don't hate 'the English' though. Can you stop with the trite generalisations and we might be able to have a 'mature' conversation.

And who the F**k is planning to 'celebrate' the Civil War or ANY war for that matter?

Plenty of people in this country. I mean its not like its actually caused bloodshed in the recent past. I used that trite phrase cause its ridiculous how fervent some Republicans (the lay republicans like in the Celtic jersey photo posted here) are, yet they make pilgrims over to United. I'm a Liverpool fan, but i'm not ignorant of Liverpool's orange history, nor the fact that some scousers will get ugly if a tri-color gets unfurled at a Pool gathering. I'm not ignorant of Ireland's shared, complex history.

and give over. respectful Celebration happened in the 1916 events. There will be 6 years of commemoration of of 1916 to 1922 and even beyond. i actually posted a link to a more learned person than I suggesting how difficult it will be.

Its part of the issue. People are trying to celebrate it, respect it, commerate it, others downplay it, others deny it, others can see that its not cowboys and indian, good versus evil history. Its ****ing complex.

markodaly · 07-01-2020 11:46AM

jmcc wrote: »

The Irish people had no vote on the Union that created the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland.

They did actually.

From Wiki

Whereas the first attempt had been defeated in the Irish House of Commons by 109 votes against to 104 for, the second vote in 1800 produced a result of 158 to 115.

Hoboo · 07-01-2020 11:47AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

One quick point about the petition link: change.org and the likes are pretty much useless. You might as well be asking people to thank a Facebook post as sign something on change.

There's an actual Oireachtas petition site that can be used where the people with any power are obliged to act when it receives a certain number of signatories. Much better to use them for anything Ireland-related. I know it isn't yourself who set this up, most likely, but just so everyone knows.

From the Oireachtas page.....

A petition is only admissable if it;

"does not contain the name or names of individuals".

How does that work?

whisky_galore · 07-01-2020 11:47AM

TwoMonthsOff wrote: »

There is a protest planned for the morning of the 17th, 11am at Dublin Castle. Most normal people will be working I'd imagine.

Timings to suit the unemployed and unemployable.

Dyr · 07-01-2020 11:47AM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

That is a biased view of history though. Being fully serious, it's indeed true that the winners write the history, but that becomes dangerous if they start truly believing that it is an unbiased truth.
The RIC were the state. The IRA and revolutionaries of 1916 and after were the murderous, terrorist, outlaws. This is indisputable. From a revisionist particular viewpoint its suits to see the reverse. But it does not mean its is the only viewpoint, or even, that its the most accurate reading of the events.

First Dáíl Eireann baby, massive popular mandate for independence. RIC went the other way, became the terrorists.

marieholmfan · 07-01-2020 11:47AM

markodaly wrote: »

They did actually.

From Wiki

The vast majority of voters for the Irish house of commons weren't Irish.

gormdubhgorm · 07-01-2020 11:48AM

markodaly wrote: »

100% it is the people that will decide this, especially moderate Unionists and middle-class Catholics.

If we in the South cannot get over something that happened 100 years ago, then forget ever winning over that group to the idea of a UI.

What is happening now, is pure opportunism by some mayors and councils. Remember, it was an all-party committee that backed this recommendation, now many of them are running scared in an election year. So much for mature debate.

Yeah but you are supposed to see through thier guff and play up to the Republican mythology, bull****.
As you said such an attitude only reinforces the Unionist viewpoint that if there ever is a united Ireland. Even the most moderate Unionist would not be welcome in a 32 county republic.

Plus I see the attitude of these political opportunists who protest against even remembering the RIC and DMP, as a missed opportunity.
Particularly in light of Brexit it seems like really short term step to take.

is_that_so · 07-01-2020 11:49AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They recommended that 'consideration be given'. They DIDN'T - knowing the sensitivities - recommend that it should be done.

It's just one of many commemorations and "sensitivities" were always going to emerge from various cohorts at some point during the decade. There will be more outrage before we get to 22-23. That they even mentioned it gives it merit and if we can't face history 100 of years ago we really need to take a good look at our claims to be a forward looking country. It's what? A morning service? TBH that's an awful lot of drama for something that will be forgotten by Saturday week.

RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

Comments