Death is such a waste of time .....

begbysback · 03-01-2020 12:33PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Existence is it's own reward begbysback!

I don't think i serve any higher purpose just by existing, but i'd still rather exist than not.

I didn't exist for billions of years and it's didn't appear to make much difference. Soon enough i won't exist again, and the universe will motor on just fine i expect.

But right now - i'd rather be here, than not here!

There’s no such thing as not existing for billions of years, and of not existing again - so what does that leave?

Hamsterchops · 03-01-2020 12:45PM

What about reincarnation, I wonder is it real?

73bc61lyohr0mu · 03-01-2020 12:47PM

Hamsterchops wrote: »

What about reincarnation, I wonder is it real?

No. You die. That's it. Nothing there after.

DrumSteve · 03-01-2020 12:58PM

Alan Powerful Bandage wrote: »

No. You die. That's it. Nothing there after.

Honestly, I'm always baffled when I hear this.

Who knows what's next? Maybe this is just one stage of existence. Considering the atoms the form us have been around for billions of years it's not a great stretch that some of the those atoms might be in another being years from now after we go back to the earth, thus we are "re-incarnated".

While I'm not looking forward to Death, I won't be around to worry about it. I'm more worried about the people I leave behind.

3rdDegree · 03-01-2020 01:08PM

In essence, we are only here to keep the species going. And to the person who asked why we keep the species going, the answer is simply that that is the mundane and ultimately pointless aim of all species. And why is that aim pointless? Because in the end, all species die out. It's a constant struggle against the inevitable failure of our purpose.

We spend our whole lives learning and accumulating experiences only for it all to be completely lost when our brains die. All seems pointless.

Happy new year!!!

DrumSteve · 03-01-2020 01:10PM

3rdDegree wrote: »

In essence, we are only here to keep the species going. And to the person who asked why we keep the species going, the answer is simply that that is the mundane and ultimately pointless aim of all species. And why is that aim pointless? Because in the end, all species die out. It's a constant struggle against the inevitable failure of our purpose.

We spend our whole lives learning and accumulating experiences only for it all to be completely lost when our brains die. All seems pointless.

Happy new year!

Not entirely true, the invention of the written word helped with that.

3rdDegree · 03-01-2020 01:17PM

DrumSteve wrote: »

Not entirely true, the invention of the written word helped with that.

That's very true. But I wasn't talking about general human knowledge. I was just talking about the experiences and knowledge within each individual person's head. All lost when the lights go out. All that effort to build up those experiences and to develop and improve ourselves over 70 to 90 years, a pointless waste of effort at the moment of death.

TuringBot47 · 03-01-2020 01:26PM

begbysback wrote: »

If there is no purpose then why keep the species going?

Uncontrolled population growth and climate change will cull our numbers soon enough forcing everyone near the equator to migrate North or south just like the storm in the game "Fortnite".

Nature hates redundancy... use it or lose it.
The reason why will tend to live to "grandparents" age is that is the sweet spot at which people are useful to help their kids/grandkids.
If people lived to 100+ they become a burden which reduces the effectiveness of their children to raise their own children.

So like a generational baton race, you procreate and pass on your knowledge and resources to the kids then pass away when you're no longer useful.

begbysback · 03-01-2020 01:42PM

3rdDegree wrote: »

In essence, we are only here to keep the species going. And to the person who asked why we keep the species going, the answer is simply that that is the mundane and ultimately pointless aim of all species. And why is that aim pointless? Because in the end, all species die out. It's a constant struggle against the inevitable failure of our purpose.

We spend our whole lives learning and accumulating experiences only for it all to be completely lost when our brains die. All seems pointless.

Happy new year!!!

Not really true though, is it, evolution drives the survival of a species, and this is achieved through DNA, so learning is in fact passed on, just not through the memory as we understand it in our minds.

FixdePitchmark · 03-01-2020 01:42PM

Does anyone know why we are here.

It would be kinda be cool if there was a God.

I mean , it's probably best explanation yet , but won't accept.

TuringBot47 · 03-01-2020 01:49PM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Does anyone know why we are here.

Poor internet filtering in the workplace.

FishOnABike · 03-01-2020 01:52PM

begbysback wrote: »

If there is no purpose then why keep the species going?

Because it's fun trying!

MMXX · 03-01-2020 01:53PM

Alan Powerful Bandage wrote: »

Life just seems like a waste of time. We live and suffer just to die and have zero recollection of anything. What's the point of struggling through this pointless existence when ultimately it means nothing.

Sure what else would you be at!?

begbysback · 03-01-2020 02:01PM

TuringBot47 wrote: »

Uncontrolled population growth and climate change will cull our numbers soon enough forcing everyone near the equator to migrate North or south just like the storm in the game "Fortnite".

Nature hates redundancy... use it or lose it.
The reason why will tend to live to "grandparents" age is that is the sweet spot at which people are useful to help their kids/grandkids.
If people lived to 100+ they become a burden which reduces the effectiveness of their children to raise their own children.

So like a generational baton race, you procreate and pass on your knowledge and resources to the kids then pass away when you're no longer useful.

I agree, overpopulation will be the biggest challenge of future generations, mostly because humans have kind of outsmarted nature in the last century, we now have an abundance of food due to genetically modified crops, and modern medical science has vastly reduced the number of people dying from illnesses, this is why people are living much longer than expected.

Some people interestingly propose that our purpose is simply to carry, and pass on DNA. If so, then why would the DNA be needed to improve and perfect people in a world where life doesn’t matter - surely there has to be an alternative purpose?

Gorgeousgeorge · 03-01-2020 02:06PM

Funny one that was told to me by an older fellow was that when the last person who knew/ remembers you dies then you are truly forgotten and it was like you never existed. That bothered me for a long time more than the actual dying bit

Naggdefy · 03-01-2020 02:27PM

We've an awful lot of experts on death here, speaking with great authority..but I'm pretty sure all of them are alive :P

Wanderer2010 · 03-01-2020 04:28PM

Ive noticed of late the huge amount of people who are pushing their view, almost aggressively, of their absolutely 100% not being a God and that we are nothing but a pile of bones and neurons with no purpose and we should just forget about any higher powers and get on with it. If that's their view then I respect that but I hold a completely different view on the matter.

Usually the atheists quote "Prove that God exists" which is of course impossible and an even weaker reply is "Prove God doesn't exist" which is a merry go round of ignorance and only leads to hostility. My own view is there are things science cannot explain like your intuitions, your dreams, your loves and your goals. None of these things are "essential" brain functions such as hunger, fear and warmth. They reside somewhere else, your true self or soul if you will. I rejected the Catholic church long ago due to the hypocrisy and the scandals, and I now believe in a higher power who put each one of us on the planet for some reason, something that needs healing, be it this life, or 100 lives from now. This body is just a temporary home for your soul.

Also there are so many things about this universe that we know nothing about, a classic case being what exactly was there before the Big Bang? There was a time before everything and so what is that, where did it all begin. These mysteries cannot be explained by science and that leaves some mystical or spiritual explanation.

3rdDegree · 03-01-2020 05:00PM

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Ive noticed of late the huge amount of people who are pushing their view, almost aggressively, of their absolutely 100% not being a God and that we are nothing but a pile of bones and neurons with no purpose and we should just forget about any higher powers and get on with it. If that's their view then I respect that but I hold a completely different view on the matter.

Usually the atheists quote "Prove that God exists" which is of course impossible and an even weaker reply is "Prove God doesn't exist" which is a merry go round of ignorance and only leads to hostility. My own view is there are things science cannot explain like your intuitions, your dreams, your loves and your goals. None of these things are "essential" brain functions such as hunger, fear and warmth. They reside somewhere else, your true self or soul if you will. I rejected the Catholic church long ago due to the hypocrisy and the scandals, and I now believe in a higher power who put each one of us on the planet for some reason, something that needs healing, be it this life, or 100 lives from now. This body is just a temporary home for your soul.

Also there are so many things about this universe that we know nothing about, a classic case being what exactly was there before the Big Bang? There was a time before everything and so what is that, where did it all begin. These mysteries cannot be explained by science and that leaves some mystical or spiritual explanation.

I didn't notice a single aggressive post prior to yours.

nozzferrahhtoo · 03-01-2020 05:58PM

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Ive noticed of late the huge amount of people who are pushing their view, almost aggressively, of their absolutely 100% not being a God and that we are nothing but a pile of bones and neurons

As another user said, I am not seeing the aggression you are. Are we reading the same thread?

However I think you miss the fact that people TALK in absolutes even if they do not mean the absolute. This is a natural use of language and is very common. You might be reading too much into it.

There is ZERO evidence at this time that, while it is possible we are anything more than "bones and neurons", that we actually are. There is literally nothing on offer to support such a hypothesis. But that is a mouthful of words. It is easier to talk in absolutes like "There is no god" even if we are not intending to express the absolutes.

I tell my 5 year old son there are no monsters under his bed. Can I be 100% certain of this? No of course not. Is there a REMOTE benefit to not talking in absolutes however? No. I would be using a lot more words to say absolutely nothing of benefit to anyone.

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Usually the atheists quote "Prove that God exists"

I do not anyway. What I usually ask a theist is "Do you have ANY arguments, evidence, data or reasoning to offer that lends any credibility to the claim a non-human intelligent intentional agent created us or our universe"? I do not ask them for anything so lofty as "proof".

The answer however is the same as "Prove that god exists". Theists got nothing. Literally nothing. Zilch. Nadda. Nichts. Nout. Nuffin. Bugger all. Diddly. Squat. So moaning over how the question is phrased seems a pointless approach. You got nothing anyway either way.

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

My own view is there are things science cannot explain

Unwarranted and unsubstantiated view that is however. The most you can say is there are things it HAS not explained. You can not validly claim it CAN NOT explain them. If you do, you are just making stuff up at this time it would seem.

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

like your intuitions, your dreams, your loves and your goals. None of these things are "essential" brain functions such as hunger, fear and warmth. They reside somewhere else, your true self or soul if you will

What substantiation for the claim do you have that they resist somewhere else? I see no evidence that your experience of the things you label as "essential" reside anywhere other than the same place where the rest of the things you list reside. It is assertion by fiat alone that you offer to support the claim they reside in different locations. While all actual evidence we have, incomplete as it might be, places the entire lot in the brain.

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I now believe in a higher power who put each one of us on the planet for some reason

How nice for you. Nothing wrong with that. Let us just not pretend you have a SHRED of substantiation for that believe however.

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Also there are so many things about this universe that we know nothing about, a classic case being what exactly was there before the Big Bang?

What do you mean by "before" in that context however? Define "before" here. However the point seems irrelevant. While there are things that we do not know, that does not lend even a modicum of credence to things people simply make up. You can make up any nonsense and simply say with hand wavey ominous conviction "there are things we do not knoooooooooow".

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

These mysteries cannot be explained by science and that leaves some mystical or spiritual explanation.

Again HAS not been. Not CAN not be. We simply do not know either way. You are basically playing the god of the gaps fallacy here. Pretending "we do not know" means "we can not know" and then forcing in your personal fantasy into the gap left by that move.

Naggdefy · 03-01-2020 06:19PM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

As another user said, I am not seeing the aggression you are. Are we reading the same thread?

However I think you miss the fact that people TALK in absolutes even if they do not mean the absolute. This is a natural use of language and is very common. You might be reading too much into it.

There is ZERO evidence at this time that, while it is possible we are anything more than "bones and neurons", that we actually are. There is literally nothing on offer to support such a hypothesis. But that is a mouthful of words. It is easier to talk in absolutes like "There is no god" even if we are not intending to express the absolutes.

I tell my 5 year old son there are no monsters under his bed. Can I be 100% certain of this? No of course not. Is there a REMOTE benefit to not talking in absolutes however? No. I would be using a lot more words to say absolutely nothing of benefit to anyone.

I do not anyway. What I usually ask a theist is "Do you have ANY arguments, evidence, data or reasoning to offer that lends any credibility to the claim a non-human intelligent intentional agent created us or our universe"? I do not ask them for anything so lofty as "proof".

The answer however is the same as "Prove that god exists". Theists got nothing. Literally nothing. Zilch. Nadda. Nichts. Nout. Nuffin. Bugger all. Diddly. Squat. So moaning over how the question is phrased seems a pointless approach. You got nothing anyway either way.

Unwarranted and unsubstantiated view that is however. The most you can say is there are things it HAS not explained. You can not validly claim it CAN NOT explain them. If you do, you are just making stuff up at this time it would seem.

What substantiation for the claim do you have that they resist somewhere else? I see no evidence that your experience of the things you label as "essential" reside anywhere other than the same place where the rest of the things you list reside. It is assertion by fiat alone that you offer to support the claim they reside in different locations. While all actual evidence we have, incomplete as it might be, places the entire lot in the brain.

How nice for you. Nothing wrong with that. Let us just not pretend you have a SHRED of substantiation for that believe however.

What do you mean by "before" in that context however? Define "before" here. However the point seems irrelevant. While there are things that we do not know, that does not lend even a modicum of credence to things people simply make up. You can make up any nonsense and simply say with hand wavey ominous conviction "there are things we do not knoooooooooow".

Again HAS not been. Not CAN not be. We simply do not know either way. You are basically playing the god of the gaps fallacy here. Pretending "we do not know" means "we can not know" and then forcing in your personal fantasy into the gap left by that move.

Imagine talking that much time, and having that much time to dissect someone's post. Getting so worked up. Complete with ENCAPSULATED words. I think science will prove one day that a majority of atheists are mind numbingly boring and overly preoccupied with one issue.

Wanderer2010 · 03-01-2020 06:26PM

To answer the points above:

As humans we have evolved over the years but our basic human needs are food, water and warmth. Our brain is highly sophisticated this way and sends out signals to search for food, water and ensure you are safe and warm at night. Everything else is secondary. thus we could in theory just stay indoors all day, eat drink and do nothing else.
Our deepest intuition cannot be explained by science- what is the reason behind why people fall in love, why we sense things about people and places, why we are so joyful when we give birth, why do we set goals for life and why do we feel so much- outside of base emotions like fear, hunger etc, there are no real purpose to emotions like joy, achievement or depression. I believe these are coming from your true self or soul self. Also, many people sense the presence of guardian angels or spirits around them and these beings give enormous comfort to a lot of people. Can you prove that in a lab somewhere? Of course not, but that doesn't make it false, its the nature of trying to present your point of view to someone who doesn't see life your way.

As for Big Bang, our current knowledge of this does not explain everything about how our universe came to be. The universe is expanding at a certain rate and if we backdate this to about 13 billion years ago, we surmise it began with an enormous explosion outwards of gases under intense pressure, hence our universe but that's just one theory. Supposing its true, what actually happened if you could look a few minutes before that explosion, what existed and what didn't? Science has never been able to explain that, and an explanation of "nothing" is just as likely then as an explanation that a higher power created this universe and maybe many more. That's where science has always fallen down.

Hercule Poirot · 03-01-2020 08:31PM

I don't think God/atheism was mentioned once prior to that big long post - what a lot of us were saying is that once you're dead there isn't anything you can do for the people left behind. Zero mention of religion or souls.

nozzferrahhtoo · 03-01-2020 10:38PM

Naggdefy wrote: »

Imagine talking that much time, and having that much time to dissect someone's post. Getting so worked up.

Who is worked up? You are assigning emotions to the post that I did not feel writing it. As for "time", you underestimate greatly just how fast I type. It took a hell of a lot less time than you expect I warrant.

railer201 · 03-01-2020 10:39PM

Naggdefy wrote: »

We've an awful lot of experts on death here, speaking with great authority..but I'm pretty sure all of them are alive :P

If anyone on the far side would like to make a comment then please leave a message below.

MMXX · 03-01-2020 10:43PM

你好

nozzferrahhtoo · 03-01-2020 10:44PM

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Our deepest intuition cannot be explained by science

Two problems here.

The first is that once again you are making the "can not" "has not" error. Actually science has explained a lot more than you pretend here. For example upon giving birth, just like having sex, the body is flooded with hormones like oxytocin which are bonding hormones. Why evolution would produce such a thing is pretty damn clear too. However despite that, even if you were right that it had not explained such things... so what... the fact remains that anything science HAS not explained.... does not mean it CAN not do so. That is an assertion you can not support, but one you make anyway to manufacture a gap for the god of the gaps to sit in.

The second is this is a different claim than you made before so you are not "answering the points above" as you claimed, but in fact moving the goal posts. You made a claim they somehow "reside" elsewhere than the other "essential" things. You have offered no support for that claim, merely modified it and presented it as weakly as before.

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Also, many people sense the presence of guardian angels or spirits around them

Yes and many people think they have been abducted by aliens, have seen a still living Elvis, or hear voices telling them to do things. That people see and hear things there is no reason to think are actually there.... is often considered a mental illness or indicative of another underlying medical issue. I am not sure how it supports your contentions here to be honest.

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Supposing its true, what actually happened if you could look a few minutes before that explosion

You are dodging my question. I asked you to define what you think you mean by "before" in this context. Time itself may be one of the attributes that came with the formation of our universe. Therefore what do you even mean by "before" exactly? It is like asking what is "outside" the universe without really knowing what you mean by "outside". Time in some form may have existed, but to my limited knowledge of physics we do not KNOW this yet. So let us be cautious with our language.

The problem is that we have evolved for a long time in a temporal universe where we observe causation. Outside of the language of mathematics we are not really evolved to even be able to think of a state of existence outside time. We are trapped by words like "before" and "after" which may not even apply to the very thing you are asking questions about.

What do you even mean by "nothing". Theists often ask "how did something come from nothing" or "why is there something rather than nothing". I reject the idea that "nothing" is the default. We simply do not know this to be the case, or not the case. Why SHOULD there be nothing rather than something? The question itself might not be valid at all. It seems to me either are equally likely to be the default until we have better information to call it either way.

The only honest way to frame the question therefore is this: We exist in this universe and we do not know how this came to be. There are many hypothesis for this up to and including the idea that a non-human intentional intelligent agent created us. That hypothesis however is not just slightly, but ENTIRELY, devoid of any substantiation of any kind however.

More than this we currently can not say, even with the help of science. So more than this I do not say. Or pretend.

railer201 · 03-01-2020 10:50PM

MMXX wrote: »

你好

What is your name ?

MMXX · 03-01-2020 10:53PM

railer201 wrote: »

What is your name ?

我的名字叫斯蒂芬

Ubbquittious · 03-01-2020 10:53PM

Twould have been fierce handy to be born with the knowledge of all those before me without having to bother learning any of it. The world would be so radically different if this would happen.

railer201 · 03-01-2020 10:58PM

MMXX wrote: »

我的名字叫斯蒂芬

How did you die ?

Death is such a waste of time .....

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