Reimbursement receipt (company didn't charge me VAT)

Johnnygeorge · 17-12-2019 05:11PM #1

I work for a events agency, I was asked to print 160 a4 sheets for an event. I was told to get the receipt so I could be reimbursed.
Everything was good I asked for the receipt, I got a hand written receipt i didn't think anything of it.
Accounts emailed me asking for a printed receipt that includes VAT and the quantity.
I emailed the print company and they said they could not give me a printed receipt as I "paid cash price". I asked for the receipt twice regardless of paying cash price.(it must have gone under the table)
I can't get reimbursed without the printed receipt, where do I stand?
I'm a college student I'd really like my 50e back but I don't know where to go from here, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

P. S my housemates told me to tell them I'd tell revenue but I don't know if that will get me very far....

Darc19 · 17-12-2019 09:29PM

Email them and ask if there's any reason why they cannot provide you with a receipt.

Cc the email to a revenue.ie email address - make one up with an unusual name. It will bounce back to you, but they won't know it.

It works a treat.

colm_mcm · 17-12-2019 09:32PM

Copy Conor pope. People love doing that

Highroad12 · 18-12-2019 12:33AM

Sounds like they are hiding sales. Revenue would be extremely interested.

Johnnygeorge · 18-12-2019 01:36AM

Darc19 wrote: »

Email them and ask if there's any reason why they cannot provide you with a receipt.

Cc the email to a revenue.ie email address - make one up with an unusual name. It will bounce back to you, but they won't know it.

It works a treat.

But they have told me I can't geta receipt as it was a "cash sale"

Midnight_EG · 18-12-2019 01:50AM

Johnnygeorge wrote: »

But they have told me I can't geta receipt as it was a "cash sale"

You get a VAT receipt when you pay cash in every other shop... They can do it.

18-12-2019 06:21AM

Johnnygeorge wrote: »

But they have told me I can't geta receipt as it was a "cash sale"

You posted in your op that they gave a receipt, ex vat. Go back in and pay the full price for the printing, then get your receipt.

Darc19 · 18-12-2019 06:34AM

Dav010 wrote: »

You posted in your op that they gave a receipt, ex vat. Go back in and pay the full price for the printing, then get your receipt.

Nope. Company told him it was €50 and only gave him the "cash price" excuse afterwards.

There is no such thing as as a "cash price" that excludes vat, hence this is vat fraud by the printer (albeit a minor one)

Op is entitled to a receipt for €50 incl vat.

18-12-2019 06:39AM

Darc19 wrote: »

Nope. Company told him it was €50 and only gave him the "cash price" excuse afterwards.

There is no such thing as as a "cash price" that excludes vat, hence this is vat fraud by the printer (albeit a minor one)

Op is entitled to a receipt for €50 incl vat.

Actually the op is not entitled to a receipt, there is no obligation on the seller to give one. And the op was only charged the quoted price, cash or otherwise.

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/shopping/buying-goods/buying-goods/

whomitconcerns · 18-12-2019 06:44AM

The c in that page is the key. This was a business purchase not a consumer purchase, and the business would find it tough to deny they would have known that due to the nature of the order

18-12-2019 06:47AM

whomitconcerns wrote: »

The c in that page is the key. This was a business purchase not a consumer purchase, and the business would find it tough to deny they would have known that due to the nature of the order

I’d say the op is the key, it says he/she is a student and €50 is a lot. I doubt the op is a vat registered business, but of course I could be wrong.

Darc19 · 18-12-2019 07:03AM

You cannot charge a non vat inclusive price. You can quote one alright in b2b sales, but it's fraud not charging it.

Johnnygeorge · 18-12-2019 02:28PM

Dav010 wrote: »

I’d say the op is the key, it says he/she is a student and €50 is a lot. I doubt the op is a vat registered business, but of course I could be wrong.

I'm not VAT registered and yes 50e is a lot and I really don't want to go without it

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 18-12-2019 02:46PM

Johnnygeorge wrote: »

I'm not VAT registered and yes 50e is a lot and I really don't want to go without it

Nothing to do with you personally being VAT registered. You were acting in behave of a business.

Johnnygeorge · 18-12-2019 03:27PM

Stevie Damaged Punch wrote: »

Nothing to do with you personally being VAT registered. You were acting in behave of a business.

So what do I do now I really want to get my money back

18-12-2019 05:38PM

Johnnygeorge wrote: »

So what do I do now I really want to get my money back

Get the person who you are working for to contact them.

I have to disagree with Srameen, you ordered and paid for the prints, I’m not sure if it makes much difference to the printers that you were “acting” for someone else, if you had been, the receipt would be made out to them and they would be invoiced.

To me, I think the company you are working for are being arses about this, for the sake of €50, people hey should pay you. How much did you bill them for your time in getting the prints?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 18-12-2019 05:46PM

Dav010 wrote: »

Get the person who you are working for to contact them.

I have to disagree with Srameen, you ordered and paid for the prints, I’m not sure if it makes much difference to the printers that you were “acting” for someone else, if you had been, the receipt would be made out to them and they would be invoiced.

To me, I think the company you are working for are being arses about this, for the sake of €50, people hey should pay you. How much did you bill them for your time in getting the prints?

Every day of the week somebody working for a business buys goods or services and pays with cash, for which their employer reimburses them. This is no different.

18-12-2019 05:53PM

Stevie Damaged Punch wrote: »

Every day of the week somebody working for a business buys goods or services and pays with cash, for which their employer reimburses them. This is no different.

True, and in most cases the employer just pays them, that is why in this case I think it’s the event manager that is being the arse. From the printers point of view, they don’t know or care who the prints are for, they quoted a price and delivered for that price.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 18-12-2019 05:59PM

Dav010 wrote: »

True, and in most cases the employer just pays them, that is why in this case I think it’s the event manager that is being the arse. From the printers point of view, they don’t know or care who the prints are for, they quoted a price and delivered for that price.

My former employers wouldn't pay a petty cash receipt without VAT shown. The printers need to break the charge down. No big deal if they're tax compliant and hardly going to find it's way back to them anyway.

18-12-2019 06:17PM

Stevie Damaged Punch wrote: »

My former employers wouldn't pay a petty cash receipt without VAT shown. The printers need to break the charge down. No big deal if they're tax compliant and hardly going to find it's way back to them anyway.

Again, no obligation to give a receipt to the op, if the op was going to pass it on, he should have stated the need for one when he ordered the prints, particularly if he knew it would be needed for reimbursement.

silver2020 · 20-12-2019 08:49AM

Dav010 wrote: »

Again, no obligation to give a receipt to the op, if the op was going to pass it on, he should have stated the need for a vat receipt when he ordered the prints, particularly if he knew it would be needed for reimbursement.

If the copies were obviously for an event, it would be known that it was a b2b transaction and a receipt should have been issued under revenue guidelines

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/value-added-tax/part09-obligations-accountable-persons/records/obligations-records-requirement-to-furnish-certain-information.pdf

20-12-2019 08:58AM

silver2020 wrote: »

If the copies were obviously for an event, it would be known that it was a b2b transaction and a receipt should have been issued under revenue guidelines

https://www.revenue.ie/en/tax-professionals/tdm/value-added-tax/part09-obligations-accountable-persons/records/obligations-records-requirement-to-furnish-certain-information.pdf

Read thread, op has already confirmed he is not a business. Beyond dealing with the person who ordered and paid for them, why would the business assume anything else? To be fair, most businesses who order stuff from printers would give their business name for vat receipt. I’d be wondering why the event manager didn’t inform the op what they needed, in advance, and why they didn’t order prints themselves, I bet they avoid paying people like the op a lot.

lordlame · 20-12-2019 09:00AM

You got the prints
You paid for the prints out of your own pocket
You got a receipt albeit a hand written one

I think the accountant / manager is being difficult given the circumstances.

Don’t buy anything out of your own pocket again for them

silver2020 · 20-12-2019 04:09PM

Dav010 wrote: »

Read thread, op has already confirmed he is not a business. Beyond dealing with the person who ordered and paid for them, why would the business assume anything else? To be fair, most businesses who order stuff from printers would give their business name for vat receipt. I’d be wondering why the event manager didn’t inform the op what they needed, in advance, and why they didn’t order prints themselves, I bet they avoid paying people like the op a lot.

why are the printers being so difficult?
A receipt would take a minute to print off.

Printing attracts vat @23%, so the only reason why the printer is being difficult is because the €50 went into their pocket and not through the books.

gibgodsman · 20-12-2019 04:13PM

I work for a printing company and we do cash deals all the time, lots of customers refuse to pay VAT on anything and there is not much we can do because every competitor is doing the same thing. I handle situations like this for my business and I know if a customer came back looking for a receipt having already got a hand written CASH RECEIPT, I would request they pay the VAT and I would create and Invoice for the job.

20-12-2019 04:26PM

silver2020 wrote: »

why are the printers being so difficult?
A receipt would take a minute to print off.

Printing attracts vat @23%, so the only reason why the printer is being difficult is because the €50 went into their pocket and not through the books.

The printers aren't being difficult, they did the prints for the price quoted and gave a receipt for the cash amount paid, it is the event organisers who are being difficult by not paying the op even though he got the prints, he paid for them, he gave them the receipt.

20-12-2019 04:44PM

Johnnygeorge wrote: »

I emailed the print company and they said they could not give me a printed receipt as I "paid cash price". ....

Ask them for a receipt under section 66(1) of the VATCA 2010 and if they fail to provide you with the required receipt then you will report them to VAT section of Revenue Commissioners with a copy of the receipt they issued and them saying ' cash receipt'

Dav010 wrote: »

Again, no obligation to give a receipt to the op, if the op was going to pass it on, he should have stated the need for a vat receipt when he ordered the prints, particularly if he knew it would be needed for reimbursement.

gibgodsman wrote: »

I work for a printing company and we do cash deals all the time, lots of customers refuse to pay VAT on anything and there is not much we can do because every competitor is doing the same thing. I handle situations like this for my business and I know if a customer came back looking for a receipt having already got a hand written CASH RECEIPT, I would request they pay the VAT and I would create and Invoice for the job.

If that is the case with the printing company that you work for and you said that to me, i would phone up the revenue there and then and report you, There is no such thing a cash receipt, what is going on is that it is not being declared to Revenue, that is not my problem or the OP's problem, but you can't ask for hey give me the vat element and we issue you with the receipt

OP a client a few years ago got a revenue audit, guess what they had a receipt that was hand written that said CASH RECEIPT.

20-12-2019 04:57PM

ants09 wrote: »

Ask them for a receipt under section 66(1) of the VATCA 2010 and if they fail to provide you with the required receipt then you will report them to VAT section of Revenue Commissioners with a copy of the receipt they issued and them saying ' cash receipt'
.

As a matter of interest, When you quote 66(1) of the VATCA to the Printer, in your opinion, and considering the op has clearly stated he is not VAT registered and is not a business, when the Printer asks you which one of these applies to you, what would you say?

Issue of invoices and other documents.:

66.—(1) An accountable person— (a) who supplies goods or services

(i) to another accountable person,

(ii) to a public body,

(iii) to a person who carries on an exempted activity,

(iv) to a person (other than an individual) in another Member State of the Community in such circumstances that tax is chargeable at any of the rates specified in section 46 (1), or

(v) to a person in another Member State who is liable to pay value-added tax pursuant to the VAT Directive on such supply,

FishOnABike · 20-12-2019 05:20PM

If you were willing to pay the printer an additional €11.50 would they give you a receipt for €61.50 (inclusive of €11.50 vat @23% of €50.00)? If they will then give that receipt to the event organiser and claim your €61.50 expenses.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 20-12-2019 05:55PM

Dav010 wrote: »

As a matter of interest, When you quote 66(1) of the VATCA to the Printer, in your opinion, and considering the op has clearly stated he is not VAT registered and is not a business, when the Printer asks you which one of these applies to you, what would you say?

Issue of invoices and other documents.:

66.—(1) An accountable person— (a) who supplies goods or services

(i) to another accountable person,

(ii) to a public body,

(iii) to a person who carries on an exempted activity,

(iv) to a person (other than an individual) in another Member State of the Community in such circumstances that tax is chargeable at any of the rates specified in section 46 (1), or

(v) to a person in another Member State who is liable to pay value-added tax pursuant to the VAT Directive on such supply,

He was acting on behalf of his employer. Many times people are sent out to get goods or services and bring back a receipt for reimbursement. I'm not sure what is so alien about this. It happens every day of the week. His error was not specifying a VAT receipt but that is not beyond salvaging.

20-12-2019 06:05PM

Stevie Damaged Punch wrote: »

He was acting on behalf of his employer. Many times people are sent out to get goods or services and bring back a receipt for reimbursement. I'm not sure what is so alien about this. It happens every day of the week. His error was not specifying a VAT receipt but that is not beyond salvaging.

Just pay the vat then and get the receipt made out to an accountable/vat registered company then. Problem solved.

I really don’t know why you keep posting that the op got the prints on behalf of someone else, there is no confirmation in the ops posts that he informed the Printer of this.

Reimbursement receipt (company didn't charge me VAT)

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