Runner that slapped reporters ass, is facing criminal charges

jam_mac_jam · 15-12-2019 09:03PM

threeball wrote: »

It's been said multiple times throughout the thread. What does charging him achieve that public humiliation and a police caution wouldn't

I haven't seen anyone recommend a custodial sentence for this. If its a caution its a caution. But i don't see why he shouldn't face consequences for this.

El_Duderino 09 · 15-12-2019 09:04PM

Ironicname wrote: »

If someone was playing football, saved a penalty and a team mate or supporter came over and kissed him on the forehead or slapped him on the arse, would that be grounds for sexual battery?

If not, why not?

Probably the prevalence of that kind of behaviour in that environment.

The fact tat they're not strangers

The fact that they may have a relationship which renders that behaviour perfectly normal between them.

But it could be sexual assault. If for example the player had told their teammate that they don't want to be touched or kissed in any way but they kissed them and slapped them anyway.

Teammates playing football is a very particular context where arse slapping and forehead kissing carry a particular meaning and not terribly generalisable. The teammate is probably less likely to ever be considered sexual assault than the supporter. Context is important.

They all seems pretty obvious responses even though I don't consider them exhaustive.

Does that help clear it up for you?

Ironicname · 15-12-2019 09:04PM

jam_mac_jam wrote:

I haven't seen anyone recommend a custodial sentence for this. If its a caution its a caution. But i don't see why he shouldn't face consequences for this.

What consequence, in your opinion, would be proportionate?

threeball · 15-12-2019 09:05PM

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I haven't seen anyone recommend a custodial sentence for this. If its a caution its a caution. But i don't see why he shouldn't face consequences for this.

I have no issue with a caution, I said that from the start. Anything more is completely disproportionate

jam_mac_jam · 15-12-2019 09:06PM

Ironicname wrote: »

What consequence, in your opinion, would be proportionate?

I'm not a judge and have no idea of US law. I would personally say a fine or a caution not a custodial sentence which despite all the panic and exaggeration he is not going to get.

threeball · 15-12-2019 09:09PM

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I'm not a judge and have no idea of US law. I would personally say a fine or a caution not a custodial sentence which despite all the panic and exaggeration he is not going to get.

That is not the consensus amoung those who want to see him punished you'll find if you read through the thread. We've had people equating it to rape .

MayoAreMagic · 15-12-2019 09:09PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

There's one who said they won't stop slapping arses. There are others who've disputed that it's a crime. That's all I have.

So you can disagree with me or disagree with them. Depends on your priorities I suppose.

So one example of slapping arses then, just to clarify.. No need for the 'few' part then, you added that in yourself for effect.
Funny, you described it as 'slapping women' in the other post...
I find that a bit disingenuous to be honest. If you have a solid argument, you generally dont need to do the above.

jam_mac_jam · 15-12-2019 09:10PM

threeball wrote: »

That is not the consensus amoung those who want to see him punished you'll find if you read through the thread. We've had people equating it to take.

I have read it. I have been following and commenting throughout it. The consensus is not a custodial sentence. Maybe you should start a poll. Or read it yourself

El_Duderino 09 · 15-12-2019 09:11PM

threeball wrote: »

I have no issue with a caution, I said that from the start. Anything more is completely disproportionate

You never said you were a legal expert. Lol.

I'd say whatever the going rate for low end sexual battery, would be appropriate - Assuming the incident meets the criteria for sexual battery in the law where it's being charged. Then that's the sentence that would be most appropriate. Whether it's a caution, fine, suspended sentence or whatever.

I don't claim to be a legal expert so I won't pick a sentence out of the sky as you appear to have done.

I presume he won't be allowed to work with children or vulnerable people either but that's probably normal for anyone convicted of sexual crimes.

kerrylad1 · 15-12-2019 09:12PM

Does anyone know, if he got a PB in the race.?If that little tickle of her butt cost him that,he deserves to be locked up.

15-12-2019 09:13PM

Bet he feels the law is an ass.

Ironicname · 15-12-2019 09:14PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

Probably the prevalence of that kind of behaviour in that environment.

So of it happens a lot in that environment, sexual contact doesn't need to be consensual and it's not sexual battery? Ok.

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

The fact tat they're not strangers

If you know the person, you don't need to get consent for sexual contact and it's not sexual battery? Ok.

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

The fact that they may have a relationship which renders that behaviour perfectly normal between them.

if you know the person and have consented to it previously, sexual contact is ok to happen without consent? Ok.

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

But it could be sexual assault. If for example the player had told their teammate that they don't want to be touched or kissed in any way but they kissed them and slapped them anyway. Teammates playing football is a very particular context where arse slapping and forehead kissing carry a particular meaning and not terribly generalisable.

So to make it not sexual assault, the person must first inform the other person they don't want it to happen? Otherwise consent is implied? Ok.

And because it means something to other people and may not be sexual, it's ok to do things to people without their consent? Ok

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

They all seems pretty obvious responses even though I don't consider them exhaustive.

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

Does that help clear it up for you?

It certainly clears up what you think of sexual battery.

How odd.

It's almost as if sexual battery and sexual assault isn't quite an appropriate name for smacking someone on the backside.

Ironicname · 15-12-2019 09:15PM

jam_mac_jam wrote:

I'm not a judge and have no idea of US law. I would personally say a fine or a caution not a custodial sentence which despite all the panic and exaggeration he is not going to get.

That's reasonable.

El_Duderino 09 · 15-12-2019 09:15PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

So one example of slapping arses then, just to clarify.. No need for the 'few' part then, you added that in yourself for effect.
Funny, you described it as 'slapping women' in the other post...
I find that a bit disingenuous to be honest. If you have a solid argument, you generally dont need to do the above.

Yeah. In hindsight no need for the "few". Have you taken issue with the poster who said they don't plan to stop slapping arses?

Slapping women's arses is a subset of slapping women. This should be obvious to any normal person. I can't see how you could slap a woman's arse without slapping a woman. Likewise you couldn't slap a man's arse without slapping a man.

El_Duderino 09 · 15-12-2019 09:17PM

Ironicname wrote: »

So of it happens a lot in that environment, sexual contact doesn't need to be consensual and it's not sexual battery? Ok.

If you know the person, you don't need to get consent for sexual contact and it's not sexual battery? Ok.

if you know the person and have consented to it previously, sexual contact is ok to happen without consent? Ok.

So to make it not sexual assault, the person must first inform the other person they don't want it to happen? Otherwise consent is implied? Ok.

And because it means something to other people and may not be sexual, it's ok to do things to people without their consent? Ok

It certainly clears up what you think of sexual battery.

How odd.

It's almost as if sexual battery and sexual assault isn't quite an appropriate name for smacking someone on the backside.

Do you really need these things explained to you? Are you being seriously or just playing dumb for the sake of the argument?

Between football players slapping arses and kissing foreheads has a particular meaning. But if you seriously need this stuff explained then fair enough. In the meantime, I'd suggest you avoiding slapping arses in all cases.

Bruthal · 15-12-2019 09:19PM

careless sherpa wrote: »

Should have his hand cut off. Firm but fair

Both hands to eliminate future temptation.

threeball · 15-12-2019 09:20PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You never said you were a legal expert. Lol.

I'd day whatever the going rate for low end sexual battery, would be appropriate - Assuming the incident meets the criteria for sexual battery in the law where it's being charged. Then that's the sentence that would be most appropriate. Whether it's a caution, fine, suspended sentence or whatever.

I don't claim to be a legal expert so I won't pick a sentence out of the sky as you appear to have done.

I presume he won't be allowed to work with children or vulnerable people either but that's probably normal for anyone convicted of sexual crimes.

The fact you think it's ok to label this guy a sexual crimes over a split second decision and tar him fir the rest of his life says all I need to know about you. One day this might happen to your father, brother, son, best mate then we'll see how militant the Duderino is. It'll go one of two ways, you'll throw them under the bus or you'll cry about the blatant inequality

Augme · 15-12-2019 09:21PM

Ironicname wrote: »

So of it happens a lot in that environment, sexual contact doesn't need to be consensual and it's not sexual battery? Ok.

If you know the person, you don't need to get consent for sexual contact and it's not sexual battery? Ok.

if you know the person and have consented to it previously, sexual contact is ok to happen without consent? Ok.

So to make it not sexual assault, the person must first inform the other person they don't want it to happen? Otherwise consent is implied? Ok.

And because it means something to other people and may not be sexual, it's ok to do things to people without their consent? Ok

It certainly clears up what you think of sexual battery.

How odd.

It's almost as if sexual battery and sexual assault isn't quite an appropriate name for smacking someone on the backside.

Battery sounds perfect actually as battery is generally considered a criminal offense involving unlawful physical contact.

El_Duderino 09 · 15-12-2019 09:25PM

threeball wrote: »

The fact you think it's ok to label this guy a sexual crimes over a split second decision and tar him fir the rest of his life says all I need to know about you. One day this might happen to your father, brother, son, best mate then we'll see how militant the Duderino is. It'll go one of two ways, you'll throw them under the bus or you'll cry about the blatant inequality

We'll, the law in the area it happened charged him so they seem to think it's got a reasonable chance of conviction as sexual battery. That's the important part. And if he's convicted then it is in fact sexual battery under the law where the incident happened. So that's about all either of us need to know.

Wouldn't you agree, if convicted, that the appropriate sentence would be the normal sentence for low end sexual battery?

threeball · 15-12-2019 09:30PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

We'll, the law in the area it happened charged him so they seem to think it's got a reasonable chance of conviction as sexual battery. That's the important part. And if he's convicted then it is in fact sexual battery under the law where the incident happened. So that's about all either of us need to know.

Wouldn't you agree, if convicted, that the appropriate sentence would be the normal sentence for low end sexual battery?

So it seems I was right, you would throw a family member under a bus for a misdemeanor. Lucky them

Ironicname · 15-12-2019 09:31PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

Do you really need these things explained to you? Are you being seriously or just playing dumb for the sake of the argument?

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

Between football players slapping arses and kissing foreheads has a particular meaning.

But for everyone else, it's a sexual thing? Or can you name me other instances where it's not.

I'm not playing dumb. I'm using an example to highlight that the act of slapping a backside isn't always sexual and certainly not always sexual battery and it is too extreme a label.

You have told me why touching someone's arse without consent isn't sexual battery in the example I gave.

Your excuses didn't hold up in any way.

If I used your excuses in any other scenario, you would look like a rape apologist because and only because it is absurd to call a smack on the arse sexual battery.

The only answer to the question I posed would be:

No, in that scenario, it wouldn't be sexual battery, because of common sense and perspective (both of which are missing from this thread)

Augme wrote:

Battery sounds perfect actually as battery is generally considered a criminal offense involving unlawful physical contact.

I agree wholeheartedly that it is much more suitable than sexual battery.

Ironicname · 15-12-2019 09:33PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

Slapping women's arses is a subset of slapping women. This should be obvious to any normal person. I can't see how you could slap a woman's arse without slapping a woman. Likewise you couldn't slap a man's arse without slapping a man.

Yeah but didn't you just give a litany of reasons when it's acceptable to smack someone?

El_Duderino 09 · 15-12-2019 09:37PM

threeball wrote: »

So it seems I was right, you would throw a family member under a bus for a misdemeanor. Lucky them

I know a lad who was convicted of drink driving and I didn't get on the Internet to whinge about it. So I suppose I threw him under the bus too. Lol

Look a guy in a foreign country committed an act which seems to qualify for sexual battery in their legal system. Time will tell whether he gets convicted and what the sentence will be. Getting upset about it and calling people names isn't actually going to do anything for the guy.

The good news now is that you know what the law says and you can launch a campaign to get the law changed if you want. That's good news, isn't it?

MayoAreMagic · 15-12-2019 09:40PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah. In hindsight no need for the "few". Have you taken issue with the poster who said they don't plan to stop slapping arses?

Slapping women's arses is a subset of slapping women. This should be obvious to any normal person. I can't see how you could slap a woman's arse without slapping a woman. Likewise you couldn't slap a man's arse without slapping a man.

No I didnt. I didnt think it was a great point to make but I think it was made out of frustration at the kind of stuff that you just tried to do peddle.

Re the difference between slapping arses and slapping women. If the guy you quoted had said he would continue slapping women (like you suggested he did), I would have taken issue with that. He said slapping arses, so I didnt take issue. Id imagine most people would be the same.

El_Duderino 09 · 15-12-2019 09:40PM

Ironicname wrote: »

Yeah but didn't you just give a litany of reasons when it's acceptable to smack someone?

I gave one example of a very specify context where footballers sometimes slap each other and it's perfectly fine. It carries an understood meaning in that particular context. I did also said I don't think it's very generalisable and that was an important part.

El_Duderino 09 · 15-12-2019 09:45PM

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

No I didnt. I didnt think it was a great point to make but I think it was made out of frustration at the kind of stuff that you just tried to do peddle.

Re the difference between slapping arses and slapping women. If the guy you quoted had said he would continue slapping women (like you suggested he did), I would have taken issue with that. He said slapping arses, so I didnt take issue. Id imagine most people would be the same.

He said he'd continue to slap women on the arse.

Take a second an have a look at yourself. You're arguing about the specific wording of slapping women and when it's OK to slap people. The general rule is that it's not OK to slap people.

Slapping women on the arse is a particular type of slapping and carries a sexual charge which makes it arguably worse than other types of slapping.

And you're taking issue with me rather than a poster who said they don't plan to stop slapping women's arses. That can't feel good to be in the position into which you've painted yourself. Lol.

Note: slapping women is interchangeable with slapping men in the above post IMO.

Ironicname · 15-12-2019 09:56PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

I gave one example of a very specify context where footballers sometimes slap each other and it's perfectly fine. It carries an understood meaning in that particular context. I did also said I don't think it's very generalisable and that was an important part.

Not true at all. You gave multiple examples of why it is acceptable to touch someone's arse without consent.

Granted it was only in one specific example.

Let me ask you two more question which are non specific and your answer will be telling:

Is smacking another grown persons arse without consent sexual battery in your opinion? And if it is not, what should the parameters be that makes it sexual battery?

MayoAreMagic · 15-12-2019 10:03PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He said he'd continue to slap women on the arse.

Take a second an have a look at yourself. You're arguing about the specific wording of slapping women and when it's OK to slap people. The general rule is that it's not OK to slap people.

Slapping women on the arse is a particular type of slapping and carries a sexual charge which makes it arguably worse than other types of slapping.

And you're taking issue with me rather than a poster who said they don't plan to stop slapping women's arses. That can't feel good to be in the position into which you've painted yourself. Lol.

Note: slapping women is interchangeable with slapping men in the above post IMO.

Nonsense.

The two terms, in common parlance, are two very different things. I have known of lots of reasonable guys who have given their other half a joking slap on the backside and neither party thought anything of it. I dont know any, nor do I want to, that would be guilty of slapping their girlfriend, as the phrase is known in common use.

You deliberately used this phrase to infer that meaning onto the slap on the backside. But it is wholly inaccurate and disingenuous.
Here is why. Frends often give each other a friendly punch on the arm or a fist bump etc. Going by your logic, that is to be viewed the same way as any type of punch, because a punch is a punch, and they are therefore guilty of assault. Its just not the case.

Tea drinker · 15-12-2019 10:07PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah. In hindsight no need for the "few". Have you taken issue with the poster who said they don't plan to stop slapping arses?

Slapping women's arses is a subset of slapping women. This should be obvious to any normal person. I can't see how you could slap a woman's arse without slapping a woman. Likewise you couldn't slap a man's arse without slapping a man.

I've had my ass slapped by a gay colleague, don't think he ever intended on slapping me on the face.
Well in any traditional sense

Die Hard 2019 · 15-12-2019 10:11PM

threeball wrote: »

The fact you think it's ok to label this guy a sexual crimes over a split second decision and tar him fir the rest of his life says all I need to know about you. One day this might happen to your father, brother, son, best mate then we'll see how militant the Duderino is. It'll go one of two ways, you'll throw them under the bus or you'll cry about the blatant inequality

I had my ass slapped at a Christmas party last night, it was one of those multi company ones and I did not know the perpetrator from Adam, all their friends laughed, should they be prosecuted as accomplices or only the person that assaulted me.

Runner that slapped reporters ass, is facing criminal charges

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