Do we scaremonger when it comes to cancer?

KM792 · 12-12-2019 11:48pm #1

When it comes to the odds of being diagnosed with cancer figures drift from 1 i n 4 to as high in 1 i n 2.
There are better treatment options and survival rates nowadays but it is predicted cancer rates will soar due to our lifestyle choices.
Very serious illness for those affected so I'm not downplaying it and people with a genetic predisposition pull the short straw but do we scaremonger in general with cancer?
Every woman is uneasy with cervical cancer at the moment in Ireland with the scandal yet in the past it was a relatively rare cancer.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 12-12-2019 11:49pm

It’s still as rare. That hasn’t changed.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 12-12-2019 11:53pm

I think with the whole explosion of social media we have become aware of cancer stories especially when it effects younger people and children because horrible and all as it is, sad stories sell news, unfortunately.

On the other hand I know more people who gave it or have died from it than ever before. It can be quite scary how common it appears to have become.

My dad died of cancer in 2000 at the age of 58 so I’ve been directly effected by it. It’s a horrible disease.

KM792 · 13-12-2019 12:00am

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

It’s still as rare. That hasn’t changed.

Average 300 women diagnosed annually.The cervical check scandal and HPV vaccine debate have really brought it to the fore.I've even had a conversation with a middle-aged woman who believed it was connected to too much sex and too many sexual partners.

Raconteuse · 13-12-2019 12:04am

Dunno. I think all of the public health campaigns are essential because it's such an insidious ****er of a disease that you might not know you have it until it's too late.

And vigilance and recalls over tiny things - scary but brilliant because this is the way to catch it early (ass covering too of course but no harm).

I think actually a bit of scaremongering is necessary. Anyone could get it. You don't have to be old or from a family with a history or a smoker or heavy drinker or obese (all of the things that could increase the risk) unfortunately. It can strike anyone.

It's the one in whatever stats that should be clarified I think though. Aren't many of those deaths of people who were dying of old age anyway? (Sorry, that reads as very clinical but I think context is important for these figures).

Rodin · 13-12-2019 12:05am

Obesity much more of a danger

buried · 13-12-2019 12:07am

Something will get you in the end. Make your peace with that fact and relax. Can't keep shopping forever.

Harvey Weinstein · 13-12-2019 12:14am

Ireland has the 3rd highest rates of Cancer in the world..so no its not scaremongering.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/cancer-rates-here-are-third-highest-in-the-world-warns-who-37366455.html

SlowBlowin · 13-12-2019 12:15am

Cancer is terrible, once it touches your life it never leaves, either directly or a loved one. In the last 10 years my wife had Lymphoma, my mother breast cancer, and currently my sister is battling Pancreatic/Liver cancer. The shock of cancer and its effects changes/ends lives.

To say I am scared of cancer is an understatement, part of me is convinced I already have it (although I have no logical reason to believe I do). Certainly I am a very different person now cancer came into my life, I sold my business of 20 years to have time to care for my wife (cancer is a full time job for the partner).

What makes me mad is papers like the daily mail, guaranteed in the next 2 weeks they will run a story something like "Doctors herald Liver cancer breakthrough". Its consistent, every few weeks a breakthrough headline, but when you read the artificial, its just some obscure research often old.

To answer the OPs question "do we scaremonger too much" I can say the job a lot of the media do is rubbish/criminal, using cancer to sell papers, and yes they are certainly scaremonger too much. In terms of the average person in the street, far from it, cancer is quite likely to visit you, and when it does it will change your life.

What makes me happy is the fantastic work done by many battling cancer, both paid and unpaid.

Raconteuse · 13-12-2019 12:19am

That's awful SlowBlowin - very sorry to read it.

Yeah I don't have a problem with public health bombardment about it. Increased awareness is only a good thing.

One eyed Jack · 13-12-2019 12:34am

KM792 wrote: »

Very serious illness for those affected so I'm not downplaying it and people with a genetic predisposition pull the short straw but do we scaremonger in general with cancer?

I don’t think you’re downplaying it but yes, I do think the risks of developing many various types of cancers are vastly overstated, and there’s an awful amount of scaremongering goes around which leads to somewhat of a fatigue among the general public, to the point where people just don’t take public awareness campaigns about the various types of cancers seriously any more.

We’re able to treat many different types of cancers now that were once thought to be terminal, and recurrence and remission rates are much more improved than they were in previous decades as a result of continued research and the development of better treatments.

Two instances which come to mind for me immediately when I think of the scaremongering effect around cancer were the death of Jade Goody after she developed cervical cancer, and Angelina Jolie’s fear of developing cancer that she thought it was a good idea to have a double mastectomy. Both those stories had an effect on raising the public’s fears of developing cancer - the number of women having smear tests in the UK rose exponentially, and the numbers of women who chose to have mastectomies after Angelina Jolie’s experience has also increased.

Mrs OBumble · 13-12-2019 12:39am

KM792 wrote: »

Average 300 women diagnosed annually.The cervical check scandal and HPV vaccine debate have really brought it to the fore.I've even had a conversation with a middle-aged woman who believed it was connected to too much sex and too many sexual partners.

She is correct.

This is one of many articles about the subject: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25987056

Not being a slut doesn't remove the risk, because all it takes to get the HPV virus is having sex with one person who has it. But limiting sexual partners (especially while young), and choosing to only have sex with other people who've done the same does reduce the chances you'll get it.

The sexual revolution (sic) has done a lot to harm women's health.

K.Flyer · 13-12-2019 12:46am

buried wrote: »

Something will get you in the end. Make your peace with that fact and relax. Can't keep shopping forever.

I don't agree with this one bit.
With huge advancements in treatments it is prudent to have regular checks so as to catch things early, therefore greatly increasing survival chances.
I would go one step further and advocate that people should consider having an Brain MRI scan, maybe every couple of years.
I say that because our son had an MRI for something unrelated and they discovered he had a form of Brain Cancer. It has been dealt with. But if it hadn't been discovered early his survival prognosis would have been very very low by the time symptoms would have presented themselves.

fineso.mom · 13-12-2019 12:49am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

She is correct.

This is one of many articles about the subject: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25987056

Not being a slut doesn't remove the risk, because all it takes to get the HPV virus is having sex with one person who has it. But limiting sexual partners (especially while young), and choosing to only have sex with other people who've done the same does reduce the chances you'll get it.

The sexual revolution (sic) has done a lot to harm women's health.

"not being a slut".... Wow

buried · 13-12-2019 12:55am

K.Flyer wrote: »

I don't agree with this one bit.

Do or don't agree, it doesn't matter. You can't survive forever. Nobody can. Death comes for us all in the end. Nobody wants to hear it but that is a problem in itself. All you can do is make peace with that fact, then you can truly live.

cj maxx · 13-12-2019 1:00am

Social media is awash with everything from cancer cures to MS cures. Like everything theres some truth there but separating the wheat from the chaff.
Goes too for vaccines. But no, I don't see scare mongering about cancer

Raconteuse · 13-12-2019 1:10am

buried wrote: »

Do or don't agree, it doesn't matter. You can't survive forever. Nobody can. Death comes for us all in the end. Nobody wants to hear it but that is a problem in itself. All you can do is make peace with that fact, then you can truly live.

Who's saying (and doesn't want to hear) that death doesn't come for us and that we can survive forever?! :pac:

Obviously! Don't think anyone is saying otherwise. Wanting to put off death until as late as possible though is perfectly logical. A person would have to be some eejit to say to themselves "Ah well, guess my number is up" and do nothing about it if they found out at a young age that they had a serious disease but which there was a chance they'd survive with treatment.

And obviously lifestyle makes a difference to your life expectancy.

Yes we will all die but the date of our death is not predestined.

SlowBlowin · 13-12-2019 1:12am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

We’re able to treat many different types of cancers now that were once thought to be terminal, and recurrence and remission rates are much more improved than they were in previous decades as a result of continued research and the development of better treatments.

You are absolutely correct on this, but I think something needs to be clarified.

A lot of cancer treatments today are crippling in themselves, almost medieval in the way they work. I have spoken to several people, who I befriended in hospital sitting in chemo with my wife, who just could not face another round of chemo and just faded away.

Chemo works by killing fast dividing cells, cancer and healthy. New cells are grown from new stem cells in your bone marrow (when it gets healthy again). When you recover you are a somewhat different person, in my wife's case:

Different colour hair red/grey to dark brown.
Straight to curly.
Appalling short term memory.
Life memories missing (but she got to watch two and a half me again as she could never remember seeing it - it was her favorite show).
Lung problems (direct side effect of chemo drugs)
No strength in hands/numb feeling in fingers (direct side effect of chemo drugs)
.....
.....

This is quite normal post chemo, the memory issues are often called "chemo brain", the other symptoms are to be expected, as is the increased risk of further cancer.

So I think this should be taken into account when saying we can treat a particular cancer. Its like taking your brand new BMW in for a engine fix and it comes back with damaged bodywork, half the power, crap MPG, and all the computer/radio settings were lost. You wouldn't think it was the same car and would probably not be happy with the fix. Well thats what a lot of cancer "treatments" offers by way of a fix. Chemo is not a great fix for cancer, its pretty much all we have got.

BDI · 13-12-2019 1:16am

fineso.mom wrote: »

"not being a slut".... Wow

While I don’t agree with the terminology or the attitude, I do think feminism has done more harm than good to women’s health and general lifestyle.

You may argue they have jobs now and can afford to buy the make up ad men tell them they need but I’m going to let people think about it and go to bed, if they have a bed. Hopefully they work and have a bed. Can’t afford to not work these days.

Raconteuse · 13-12-2019 1:21am

Not everything detrimental to women is due to feminism.

The sexual revolution was embraced by men and women.

A wave of feminism actually emerged in protest because "free love" was a handy excuse for sexual assault.

Extreme promiscuity contains potential dangers indeed though, for men and women.

Strumms · 13-12-2019 1:35am

I don’t think we scaremonger. Every single one of us has been touched by this disease in some way. It’s a condition that probably billions are spent worldwide trying to combat and understand per year but realistically we are no closer to an actual overall ‘cure’, I’ve lost two people this year... an Uncle in his 70’s who while a drinker and overweight but was for years in fact all his adult life a professional golfer so active and a friend in his 40’s who to look at was the absolute picture of health....

Leading an unhealthy existence can contribute we know, genes we know, it’s a massive killer but the actual understanding of this killer is tiny it seems, what causes it we know ‘some’ of but it seems to be a mystery.

LirW · 13-12-2019 1:39am

BDI wrote: »

While I don’t agree with the terminology or the attitude, I do think feminism has done more harm than good to women’s health and general lifestyle.

You may argue they have jobs now and can afford to buy the make up ad men tell them they need but I’m going to let people think about it and go to bed, if they have a bed. Hopefully they work and have a bed. Can’t afford to not work these days.

The general population has a poor understanding how HPV works.
80% of adults in Ireland have or had HPV at some point in their lives. It goes without symptoms for many and clears itself up but can linger in the body for a long time and symptoms might show years after contracting it.
You can't protect yourself from it with condoms, it's spreads via skin contact, not fluids.
Basically, if you have been sexually active, it's very likely you had or have it without knowing.
Regular STD screenings don't even test for HPV because it's so common. Also there's no treatment for the virus itself, just the issues it causes.
The only way to not get it ever is to abstain from sex and protect yourself from the worst strains by getting the vaccine.
And it's not a modern world disease, all throughout history going back as far as ancient there have been reports of symptoms that were identical with HPV-linked problems.

Edit: HPV doesn't equal cancer, the few risk-associated strains cause an infection leading to cell changes (that's what a smear is looking for) which over time can get worse and turn into cancer.

lozenges · 13-12-2019 1:45am

fineso.mom wrote: »

"not being a slut".... Wow

Indeed. Almost everyone who has been sexually active at any point has had HPV (~80%). It's not about 'being a slut'.

Grab All Association · 13-12-2019 2:16am

Eamon Ryan and John Gormely condemned us all to cancer when they changed the motor tax system back in 2008. Encouraged people in urban areas to buy diesels with cheap motor tax in urban areas. Those with 1.4ltr Golfs and 1.0yaris/fiestas to buy cheap Korean ****e suv diesels or 1.6ltr Passats/Avensis for local miles!

You need to be doing big mileage e.g journeys like Dublin to Thurles, Dublin to Cork daily to ever justify owning a diesel. Or at least towing a tractor. They are not economical travelling the likes of Holycross/Littleton to Thurles for shopping in Dunnes Stores. Greens have probably done more environmental damage than any other party in the past. Remember Hybrid technology was around at this point, as where turbocharged engines.

Try think back 10-20 years ago. Was there that many people developing cancer? in my area from my birth in the late 1980s to 2010, just 1 person in my estate died of cancer. Post 2009, out of 24 houses. 9 have died and 3 neighbours are currently diagnosed and undergoing treatment for cancer.

Taking my housing estate out of the picture for a moment. I would hear about someone I knew diagnosed/dying of cancer maybe every two years or more. Now it’s every few weeks. Families with no history of cancer getting diagnosed. My brother for example was diagnosed with a type of cancer that no one on both sides ever had.

The only thing that has changed in our environment here is the cars. Everyone had petrol Micras, petrol Golfs Polos, Puntos, Astra’s Vectras, Mondeos Etc in the 2000s.

It’s all now Passats, Audi’s, Hyundai’s and Avensis.

Strumms · 13-12-2019 2:17am

Here is a stat which I just stumbled upon...

“The World Health Organization (WHO) note that, worldwide, nearly 1 in 6 deaths are down to cancer.”

Scary.

lozenges · 13-12-2019 2:28am

More deaths occur in Ireland due to heart disease than cancer. But you don't get the same fear around cardiac issues.

Rubberchikken · 13-12-2019 2:49am

educating people about it is good. but the amount of money directed to it at, i feel, the expense of mental health, is something im not happy with.

moonage · 13-12-2019 5:30am

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Chemo is not a great fix for cancer, its pretty much all we have got.

Recently there has been a lot of interest in repurposing certain drugs for cancer i.e. using them "off-label". These are cheap, common, low toxicity drugs for other conditions that have anti-cancer properties. They are out of patent so drug companies have no incentives to do clinical trials on them.

If I ever got cancer it's one of the main avenues I'd be going down. There is a private oncology clinic in London that offers this treatment.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/wellbeing/healthadvice/11424747/The-professor-who-cured-his-cancer-with-a-cocktail-of-everyday-pills-and-20-years-on-remains-disease-free.html

_Brian · 13-12-2019 6:51am

Because we are living longer overall that is allowing more and more people to develop cancers, this is doing allot to change the statistics.

Obesity is a recent epidemic and while bad in itself it contributes to people getting many cancers too.

I’m fine with the notion of getting cancer when I’m 85, I’m approaching 50 now and have lost close Relatives and friends to cancer so it feels very real.

Gynoid · 13-12-2019 7:11am

lozenges wrote: »

More deaths occur in Ireland due to heart disease than cancer. But you don't get the same fear around cardiac issues.

Yes 1 in 4 die from heart disease. And then there are the horrible life limiting results of strokes.
Everything is terrifying. Thats the fact. I have had 2 good friends die this past year in their 50s and other aquaintances too in their 50 -60s in recent times. The awareness comes in cycles, depending on how many one knows or hears about. If it is a lot there is a feeling of dread, of existential insecurity ( which, philosophically speaking, is the truth of the matter, we all hang every moment by our fingernails over a void, a precipice, never certain of the next heartbeat,

cheerful thought for the day!) and if the stories or experiences are few then I live like a happy cheerful feckless goose who rarely thinks about the grave.

Wanderer78 · 13-12-2019 7:17am

KM792 wrote:

When it comes to the odds of being diagnosed with cancer figures drift from 1 i n 4 to as high in 1 i n 2. There are better treatment options and survival rates nowadays but it is predicted cancer rates will soar due to our lifestyle choices. Very serious illness for those affected so I'm not downplaying it and people with a genetic predisposition pull the short straw but do we scaremonger in general with cancer? Every woman is uneasy with cervical cancer at the moment in Ireland with the scandal yet in the past it was a relatively rare cancer.

No

Ande1975 · 13-12-2019 12:13pm

Nothing, nothing, will ever prepare you for the reality of sitting in a doctor's office and hearing the words, your parent has a grade 3 anaplastic astrosytoma. They may have 6 - 18 months.
The absolute shock and stunned look on their faces when you are trying to absorb this and also hold it together for them.
Cancer is an absolute boll*x of a disease. I don't care how you have lived your life or how modern lifestyles have changed. Who gives a sh*t. It is what is is. My parent was the healthiest, most fit and hard working person I knew.
The treatment was bullsh*t. All it did was prolong the inevitable and no one, not one person, prepared us for the reality of this disease. The surgeon who removed the tumour told us that he 'got it all'. Boll*x, he got what he could see. Giving us false hope. The radiologist told us that my parent flew through radiotherapy. Boll*x, they thought he'd barely survive it. The oncologist told us this type of chemo is very effective for this type of brain tumour, boll*x, my parent was only able for 3 rounds.
My parent developed skin cancer at the same time. A junior oncologist told us that there were cancer nodes developing in his lungs but that wasn't spoken about after. I know its hard to give bad news but f**k it, it influenced choices made that would have been different if we knew the reality.
My parent who would eat sh*t if it extended their life by 100 years was ravaged by this horrendous f**king disease.
So no, their isn't any scaremongering when it comes to cancer. Its very real and it does affect 1 in 2 people.
What we need to focus on is how to help patients and their families deal with diagnosis, treatments, asking the right questions, getting the right support.
My heart breaks for anyone who is going through this or knows someone who is. Its an insidious disease.
Sorry for the rant but its an emotive topic

eviltwin · 13-12-2019 12:16pm

Cancer is terrifying. I saw a parent waste away and die slowly and painfully over six months. No one wants to die but some deaths are worse than others.

Raconteuse · 13-12-2019 12:29pm

Ande1975 wrote: »

Nothing, nothing, will ever prepare you for the reality of sitting in a doctor's office and hearing the words, your parent has a grade 3 anaplastic astrosytoma. They may have 6 - 18 months.
The absolute shock and stunned look on their faces when you are trying to absorb this and also hold it together for them.
Cancer is an absolute boll*x of a disease. I don't care how you have lived your life or how modern lifestyles have changed. Who gives a sh*t. It is what is is. My parent was the healthiest, most fit and hard working person I knew.
The treatment was bullsh*t. All it did was prolong the inevitable and no one, not one person, prepared us for the reality of this disease. The surgeon who removed the tumour told us that he 'got it all'. Boll*x, he got what he could see. Giving us false hope. The radiologist told us that my parent flew through radiotherapy. Boll*x, they thought he'd barely survive it. The oncologist told us this type of chemo is very effective for this type of brain tumour, boll*x, my parent was only able for 3 rounds.
My parent developed skin cancer at the same time. A junior oncologist told us that there were cancer nodes developing in his lungs but that wasn't spoken about after. I know its hard to give bad news but f**k it, it influenced choices made that would have been different if we knew the reality.
My parent who would eat sh*t if it extended their life by 100 years was ravaged by this horrendous f**king disease.
So no, their isn't any scaremongering when it comes to cancer. Its very real and it does affect 1 in 2 people.
What we need to focus on is how to help patients and their families deal with diagnosis, treatments, asking the right questions, getting the right support.
My heart breaks for anyone who is going through this or knows someone who is. Its an insidious disease.
Sorry for the rant but its an emotive topic

Oh Ande, that's horrendous - sorry to read it.

Yeah "it's scaremongering" and blase "meh, when your number is up, your number is up" kinda talk... I don't like it. The tune would be changed fast if they or one of their loved ones were diagnosed... even just a scare where you're sick waiting for the results.

I mean, I get people's concern about terrifying people when they may have nothing to worry about. But equally, it could affect absolutely anybody and its so insidious in terms of symptoms - this kind of aggressive awareness-creating is necessary really.

SlowBlowin · 13-12-2019 12:34pm

Ande1975 wrote: »

Giving us false hope.

This is a very real thing. It exists at every level of treatment, people find it hard to give bad news. You are in shock from the initial diagnosis and then you have to drive home, that drive was one of the worst moments of my life, how we didn't crash.

There is a definite requirement for a more structured/caring/accurate way of communicating both the initial diagnosis and ongoing outlook.

Some staff know this, when we left the consultants room a macmillian nurse, with us in the consultants room, pulled us into a laundry room had gave us care, and truth. She was fantastic, she retired from nursing the following month a great loss.

gibgodsman · 13-12-2019 12:35pm

I think you have answered your own question here, The reason the survival rates are so much higher is because the awareness to catch it early is so much higher, I wish my Mam went and got checked, died in 2006 and we didn't know anything was wrong until after she died.

twignme · 13-12-2019 12:39pm

I am a cancer survivor, I lost my sister to cancer six years ago and I lost my mother to cancer thirteen years ago. They were three different types of cancer. So I am particulalry alert to items, news or scientific work relating to cancer. I think if I changed the word cancer to dementia in two of those cases, I would be more aware of items relating to that particular disease. But as I don't have personal experience of losing anyone close, be it family or friend, to dementia, it's not on my radar in the same way.

I think because many of us have experience of cancer and its effects, we are tuned into it more but I don't think it's in a scaremongering kind of way.

Raconteuse · 13-12-2019 1:03pm

gibgodsman wrote: »

I think you have answered your own question here, The reason the survival rates are so much higher is because the awareness to catch it early is so much higher, I wish my Mam went and got checked, died in 2006 and we didn't know anything was wrong until after she died.

That's awful - so sorry.

People don't even know they have it. All the publicity is vital.

wakka12 · 13-12-2019 1:07pm

KM792 wrote: »

When it comes to the odds of being diagnosed with cancer figures drift from 1 i n 4 to as high in 1 i n 2.
There are better treatment options and survival rates nowadays but it is predicted cancer rates will soar due to our lifestyle choices.
Very serious illness for those affected so I'm not downplaying it and people with a genetic predisposition pull the short straw but do we scaremonger in general with cancer?
Every woman is uneasy with cervical cancer at the moment in Ireland with the scandal yet in the past it was a relatively rare cancer.

That figure of 1 in 2 is just because we are living so much longer, and the biggest risk factor for almost all cancers is older age. Its much less to do with lifestyle and cancer rates are not increasing in any noticeable way among younger people. Often there is nothing you can do to detect it early or stop it from happening but at the same time it is important to scare monger a bit because for many types of cancers the odds of survival are better the earlier its caught. If people are made aware of the symptoms to look out for and know that its serious then they are more likely to go straight to he doctor

K.Flyer · 13-12-2019 1:12pm

buried wrote: »

Do or don't agree, it doesn't matter. You can't survive forever. Nobody can. Death comes for us all in the end. Nobody wants to hear it but that is a problem in itself. All you can do is make peace with that fact, then you can truly live.

Nobody is trying to survive forever, that's a ridiculous concept.
But increasing your chances of a reasonable lifespan through regular medical check ups is prudent self care.

Sugar Free · 13-12-2019 1:20pm

SlowBlowin wrote: »

A lot of cancer treatments today are crippling in themselves, almost medieval in the way they work. I have spoken to several people, who I befriended in hospital sitting in chemo with my wife, who just could not face another round of chemo and just faded away.

Chemo works by killing fast dividing cells, cancer and healthy. New cells are grown from new stem cells in your bone marrow (when it gets healthy again). When you recover you are a somewhat different person, in my wife's case:

Different colour hair red/grey to dark brown.
Straight to curly.
Appalling short term memory.
Life memories missing (but she got to watch two and a half me again as she could never remember seeing it - it was her favorite show).
Lung problems (direct side effect of chemo drugs)
No strength in hands/numb feeling in fingers (direct side effect of chemo drugs)
.....
.....

This is quite normal post chemo, the memory issues are often called "chemo brain", the other symptoms are to be expected, as is the increased risk of further cancer.

So I think this should be taken into account when saying we can treat a particular cancer. Its like taking your brand new BMW in for a engine fix and it comes back with damaged bodywork, half the power, crap MPG, and all the computer/radio settings were lost. You wouldn't think it was the same car and would probably not be happy with the fix. Well thats what a lot of cancer "treatments" offers by way of a fix. Chemo is not a great fix for cancer, its pretty much all we have got.

Agreed. I hope that over the coming years as more and more targeted immuno-oncology agents become genericized such as Keytruda, Yescarta, Tecentriq etc. that these will reduce the use of the more standard chemo regimens like (R)-CHOP, PACE, EPOCH and so on as first line treatments and in turn reduce the impact it has on survivors' health, post-treatment.

That said, I think chemo or chemo + B/T-cell targeting regimens will inevitably still have a place in 2L+ treatments even years from now, as some patients will for one reason or another be refractory to 1L treatment.

wakka12 · 13-12-2019 1:21pm

lozenges wrote: »

More deaths occur in Ireland due to heart disease than cancer. But you don't get the same fear around cardiac issues.

Because cardiac issues can often be completely turned around. Your doctor says oh you have really high blood pressure,you are very obese, you have high cholestrerol, blood sugar, you need to start looking after yourself. Even if worst comes to worst and you have an actual heart attack or stroke many people can still survive it and go on to lead long healthy lives. You can go on a strict exercise regime and improve your diet and take some meds and you can be a completely new person,your improved lifestyle will be reflected by massively improved cardiac biomarkers, but with cancer, the victim often doesnt have that opportunity to take their health into their own hands and have that control over it. Basically cardiac health has huge scope for improvement and is usually caused by lifestyle, cancer its very often dumb luck whether you develop it and also a huge element of luck whether it will be treatable

Raconteuse · 13-12-2019 1:30pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Because cardiac issues can often be completely turned around. Your doctor says oh you have really high blood pressure,you are very obese, you have high cholestrerol, blood sugar, you need to start looking after yourself. Even if worst comes to worst and you have an actual heart attack or stroke many people can still survive it and go on to lead long healthy lives. You can go on a strict exercise regime and improve your diet and take some meds and you can be a completely new person,your improved lifestyle will be reflected by massively improved cardiac biomarkers, but with cancer, the victim often doesnt have that opportunity to take their health into their own hands and have that control over it. Basically cardiac health has huge scope for improvement and is usually caused by lifestyle, cancer its very often dumb luck whether you develop it and also a huge element of luck whether it will be treatable

That's one of the most frightening aspects - the complete lack of control.

evil_seed · 13-12-2019 1:40pm

In all seriousness, F*CK CANCER!

One of my aunts died from it. I've an uncle and another aunt that has it.

F*CK CANCER!

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 13-12-2019 4:08pm

Ande1975 wrote: »

Nothing, nothing, will ever prepare you for the reality of sitting in a doctor's office and hearing the words, your parent has a grade 3 anaplastic astrosytoma. They may have 6 - 18 months.
The absolute shock and stunned look on their faces when you are trying to absorb this and also hold it together for them.
Cancer is an absolute boll*x of a disease. I don't care how you have lived your life or how modern lifestyles have changed. Who gives a sh*t. It is what is is. My parent was the healthiest, most fit and hard working person I knew.
The treatment was bullsh*t. All it did was prolong the inevitable and no one, not one person, prepared us for the reality of this disease. The surgeon who removed the tumour told us that he 'got it all'. Boll*x, he got what he could see. Giving us false hope. The radiologist told us that my parent flew through radiotherapy. Boll*x, they thought he'd barely survive it. The oncologist told us this type of chemo is very effective for this type of brain tumour, boll*x, my parent was only able for 3 rounds.
My parent developed skin cancer at the same time. A junior oncologist told us that there were cancer nodes developing in his lungs but that wasn't spoken about after. I know its hard to give bad news but f**k it, it influenced choices made that would have been different if we knew the reality.
My parent who would eat sh*t if it extended their life by 100 years was ravaged by this horrendous f**king disease.
So no, their isn't any scaremongering when it comes to cancer. Its very real and it does affect 1 in 2 people.
What we need to focus on is how to help patients and their families deal with diagnosis, treatments, asking the right questions, getting the right support.
My heart breaks for anyone who is going through this or knows someone who is. Its an insidious disease.
Sorry for the rant but its an emotive topic

A lot of oncologists and cancer surgeons are really bad for that. It’s like they want to believe so badly that they have cured that they think if they say the words, it will come true. IMO, it’s a manifestation of the harmful side of positive thinking. It’s why today, many women who are more than five years out from early-stage breast cancer (and therefore apparently cured) sit stunned while being told their cancer is back and metastatic. Many oncologists didn’t tell them that the chances of that happening aren’t actually inconsiderable.

I’m so sorry for your loss. Your rage is love. That’s what love is.

_Brian · 13-12-2019 4:15pm

lozenges wrote: »

More deaths occur in Ireland due to heart disease than cancer. But you don't get the same fear around cardiac issues.

You do from those of us with cardiac issues and a family history

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 13-12-2019 4:17pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Because cardiac issues can often be completely turned around. Your doctor says oh you have really high blood pressure,you are very obese, you have high cholestrerol, blood sugar, you need to start looking after yourself. Even if worst comes to worst and you have an actual heart attack or stroke many people can still survive it and go on to lead long healthy lives. You can go on a strict exercise regime and improve your diet and take some meds and you can be a completely new person,your improved lifestyle will be reflected by massively improved cardiac biomarkers, but with cancer, the victim often doesnt have that opportunity to take their health into their own hands and have that control over it. Basically cardiac health has huge scope for improvement and is usually caused by lifestyle, cancer its very often dumb luck whether you develop it and also a huge element of luck whether it will be treatable

Some can. There is hereditary atherosclerosis. Example: Arthur Ashe, a top tennis player with an exemplary lifestyle, was lucky not to die from a heart attack in his 30s. His arteries were almost fully blocked. Many people, the first they know they have a heart problem is when they drop dead of a heart attack at a horribly young age. I reckon most people know somebody with a healthy lifestyle who has died of a heart attack or it was picked up and they had surgery. A friend of mine in his 50s - lean guy, ate healthily, exercised. A few drinks his only vice but never big binges - got a medical when changing jobs a few years ago. A heart abnormality was flagged and severe blockages discovered. He was close to having a heart attack. He almost didn’t take the new job. Thank god he did!

It’s thought that 40% of cancers are preventable.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 13-12-2019 4:30pm

Raconteuse wrote: »

That's one of the most frightening aspects - the complete lack of control.

Yeah, when I was diagnosed, that was the hardest thing to cede. And I can see that it terrifies others. They seem relieved to hear that my mother also had breast cancer - they think “Ah, that explains it. I’m okay so” - even though I don’t carry any of the known breast cancer gene mutations and my mother was post-menopausal when diagnosed, so I’m not actually considered to have a strong history.

On feeling in control, I grab it where I can. A family member put up a detailed status update on Facebook about me and my illness without checking first if it was okay with me. It included quite personal stuff. I was mortified. She raked in the likes and comments (100% why she did it) and only hours later texted me “Oh was it okay that I did that? You didn’t like the status update!”. Talk about putting me in an awkward position. Why I was so upset is because the only thing I have control over now is how I talk about my illness. She took that away. The one thing that is mine and that I have a handle on. She knew well she should have asked me first too but was probably hoping I’d say nothing or let it slide out of embarrassment. Which I did for a while.

BDI · 13-12-2019 4:30pm

You have to die of something.

You are but a cluster of cells in a much bigger organism.

You reproduce and you die.

You can’t spend your life worrying about how you go. We have the best pain killing medicine ever and can induce comas if needs be. You will be comfortable however your body chooses to go unless it’s fast. Then it’s fast.

I think the horrible thing about cancers is how long modern science can keep you going for.

Anyway buy yourself a nice coat you seen somebody on Instagram wearing. Be grand.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 13-12-2019 4:34pm

BDI wrote: »

You have to die of something.

You are but a cluster of cells in a much bigger organism.

You reproduce and you die.

You can’t spend your life worrying about how you go. We have the best pain killing medicine ever and can induce comas if needs be. You will be comfortable however your body chooses to go unless it’s fast. Then it’s fast.

I think the horrible thing about cancers is how long modern science can keep you going for.

Anyway buy yourself a nice coat you seen somebody on Instagram wearing. Be grand.

That’s true but don’t ever say that to any young or relatively young person dealing with a terminal illness. It’s of no comfort. I had a hospital consultant breezily say that me. I was 31 and had just seen my life expectancy more than cut in half. I’m still completely shocked at her lack of empathy.

Edit: and sadly, pain can’t always be controlled. That’s why some people are basically killed by morphine because the dosage goes so high trying to kill the pain.

Raconteuse · 13-12-2019 4:36pm

We all know we're gonna die - just not dying old would be sh1t.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Yeah, when I was diagnosed, that was the hardest thing to cede. And I can see that it terrifies others. They seem relieved to hear that my mother also had breast cancer - they think “Ah, that explains it. I’m okay so”

They're wrong. Most cancers aren't hereditary.

Unfortunately, it seems that outside of living in Chernobyl, the biggest risk is being alive.

The biggest risk for breast/cervical/ovarian cancers - being female.

Do we scaremonger when it comes to cancer?

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