John Delaney at the FAI Thread - (Mod Notes in OP)

kippy · 07-12-2019 01:24PM

smelly sock wrote: »

Wouldnt have a lot of hate for JD.

In the ha penny place in comparison to Seanie Fitz, Drumm, Sean Quinn and the Grehans. They really robbed people of a future.

hmm.....again, there have been people on this thread that brought this up earlier on, back when things hadn't been as clear as they are now and I'll say the same thing now as I did then.

Whether you beleive that or not, it's completely irrelevant and a red herring to detract from the facts.

Sure I wouldn't havea lot of hate for Seanie Fitz, Drumm, Quinn and the Grehans,

In the ha'penny place compared to Pol Pott, Hittler and Henry the 8th - they really robbed people of a future...........

See, tis easy to say "look over there" but that solves absolutely nothing.

NIMAN · 07-12-2019 01:25PM

smelly sock wrote: »

Wouldnt have a lot of hate for JD.

In the ha penny place in comparison to Seanie Fitz, Drumm, Sean Quinn and the Grehans. They really robbed people of a future.

I think you might be underestimating the damage JD might have done.

There are a huge number of youngsters playing soccer in Ireland. Youngsters that do need a functioning football organisation in the country.

And JD has likely bankrupted ours and done damage that could take decades to be rectified.

So don't be so easy on him.

Kiith · 07-12-2019 01:26PM

There's only two options. Either Deloite did a piss poor job, which they should be held accountable for that. Or management hid things from them, which (i believe) is illegal and they should be criminally charged.

Chances are neither of these things will happen though.

FixdePitchmark · 07-12-2019 01:32PM

smelly sock wrote: »

Wouldnt have a lot of hate for JD.

In the ha penny place in comparison to Seanie Fitz, Drumm, Sean Quinn and the Grehans. They really robbed people of a future.

that's a daft post.

I'd have the same anger if someone stole 10 euro from an oap or a kid.

He was going around like a lord with his girlfriend partying and as someone posted a fantastic grass roots rural club like Monaghan went to the wall.

I hate John Delaney, I wouldnt like to see him die . But locked up.

I would agree , he is a man in pain now as he loved his celebrity.

The late late appearance and 50th birthday party summed up everything that went wrong with some Irish in Celtic Tiger.

Then turning up to clubs with cheques as if his money, what a ****.

Francie Barrett · 07-12-2019 01:33PM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

what's is the point of an audit so.

Surely an auditor can check the data fairly easily.

To verify that the managements interpretation of their accounts is correct.

Auditors will ask for things like bank statements to show cash balances/debts exist, they will check inventories, they will ask for invoices, etc. I would be fairly confident that everything that existed in the FAI's interpretation of their accounts was checked and verified by Deloitte.

It's pretty clear to me that the blame for this whole mess is completely within the FAI. The Board of Directors were supposed to be independent, yet they allowed Delaney to run this like his own personal slush fund. Also, whoever was head bean counter here also needs to be held accountable. The FAI has very simple accounts, but yet nearly every single year they end up restating them. The internal controls in the finance department are clearly very poor, although that was probably something that came down from Delaney. What happened in the FAI from the top down was clearly organisational failure in the extreme. Delaney is gone, the rest of the board need to go, the finance chief needs to go, anyone who was complicit needs to be thrown out so we can start again.

FixdePitchmark · 07-12-2019 01:38PM

Francie Barrett wrote: »

To verify that the managements interpretation of their accounts is correct.

Auditors will ask for things like bank statements to show cash balances/debts exist, they will check inventories, they will ask for invoices, etc. I would be fairly confident that everything that existed in the FAI's interpretation of their accounts was checked and verified by Deloitte.

It's pretty clear to me that the blame for this whole mess is completely within the FAI. The Board of Directors were supposed to be independent, yet they allowed Delaney to run this like his own personal slush fund. Also, whoever was head bean counter here also needs to be held accountable. The FAI has very simple accounts, but yet nearly every single year they end up restating them. The internal controls in the finance department are clearly very poor, although that was probably something that came down from Delaney.

I think your wrong .

the errors in flows as so large , even basic checks you describe would show up differences.

they didn't do the job.

sure they weren't even tax compliant.

Anyone defending the audit , is in the game defending the indefensible.

when you are defending the indefensible, you are actually revealing the process that enabled this.

cmac2009 · 07-12-2019 01:41PM

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The role of the auditor is to audit based on the information that is presented to them by management. The whole process depends on management being truthful in the numbers that they provide the auditors. I am sure that whatever accounts Delaney presented to Deloitte were all checked and corroborated completely. The problem here was that numbers presented were bogus. If management were lying about the numbers, this falls out of the jurisdiction of the auditor and into the authorities as it's a criminal act.

Well I hope we hear more detail on this, but clearly the audit being carried out was not fit for purpose. I would be very surprised if the FAI were so brilliantly devious that they were able hide such substantial amounts. If they were, then there was obviously a considerable number of people involved.

Irishmale0399 · 07-12-2019 01:43PM

Very strong belief that auditors were getting a second set of fictional accounts, hence the various state audits and Conway being convinced he did nothing wrong. Seems the board and auditors seen cooked books and this is the reason Conway now accepts he didnt do his job.

What we should not forget in all of this is that 2019 is not reflected in the €55 million debt (JDs payoff etc.) nor have the auditors confirmed that they are sure the figure is correct. There is a lot more to this than meets the eye......as has been pointed out, the payoff to JD seems to be a lot more than they are saying or he was being paid more than the FAI are letting on.

kippy · 07-12-2019 01:44PM

Kiith wrote: »

There's only two options. Either Deloite did a piss poor job, which they should be held accountable for that. Or management hid things from them, which (i believe) is illegal and they should be criminally charged.

Chances are neither of these things will happen though.

Yep,
Logicilly it is one or the other or a combination of both.

kippy · 07-12-2019 01:46PM

Francie Barrett wrote: »

To verify that the managements interpretation of their accounts is correct.

Auditors will ask for things like bank statements to show cash balances/debts exist, they will check inventories, they will ask for invoices, etc. I would be fairly confident that everything that existed in the FAI's interpretation of their accounts was checked and verified by Deloitte.

It's pretty clear to me that the blame for this whole mess is completely within the FAI. The Board of Directors were supposed to be independent, yet they allowed Delaney to run this like his own personal slush fund. Also, whoever was head bean counter here also needs to be held accountable. The FAI has very simple accounts, but yet nearly every single year they end up restating them. The internal controls in the finance department are clearly very poor, although that was probably something that came down from Delaney. What happened in the FAI from the top down was clearly organisational failure in the extreme. Delaney is gone, the rest of the board need to go, the finance chief needs to go, anyone who was complicit needs to be thrown out so we can start again.

Hard to have any confidence in what management were showing them when the treasurer didn't know how many bank accounts they had......

kippy · 07-12-2019 01:51PM

And again,
Something that needs to be posted up every now and again, just so people remember........

Francie Barrett · 07-12-2019 02:04PM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I think your wrong .

the errors in flows as so large , even basic checks you describe would show up differences.

they didn't do the job.

sure they weren't even tax compliant.

Anyone defending the audit , is in the game defending the indefensible.

when you are defending the indefensible, you are actually revealing the process that enabled this.

All I am saying is that auditors can only audit based on full disclosure. If they are being lied to, then it becomes a criminal matter.

Rayne Wooney · 07-12-2019 02:11PM

If Deloitte found nothing in 22 years then it is undoubtedly a criminal matter, because there would have to be bogus invoices and fabricated statements to dupe the auditor. That’s assuming Deloitte were actually looking in the first place.

Is there going to be an investigation into this or is that asking too much of this country?

DeanAustin · 07-12-2019 02:14PM

Francie Barrett wrote: »

All I am saying is that auditors can only audit based on full disclosure. If they are being lied to, then it becomes a criminal matter.

It's up to the auditors to look at things with a degree of scepticism. They can't just accept what's being presented by management because that effectively means that management can do what they want. That sort of **** is what brought down Enron and Anderson Consulting. Deloittes job is to properly interrogate what they are being presented with.

If some sort of investigation shows that they were deliberately misled in a way that they couldn't reasonably have known about, as you say, we're into fraud/criminal territory. Deloitte have some big questions to answer here though. And the answer cant be "well we just believed what the FAI told us."

Francie Barrett · 07-12-2019 02:17PM

DeanAustin wrote: »

That sort of **** is what brought down Enron and Anderson Consulting.

Arthur Anderson colluded with Enron and destroyed evidence of fraud. Deloitte on the other hand reported irregularities - completely different.

DeanAustin · 07-12-2019 02:26PM

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Arthur Anderson colluded with Enron and destroyed evidence of fraud. Deloitte on the other hand reported irregularities - completely different.

The point is that auditors shouldn't just accept what is being presented by management. They have a duty to interrogate it and look for checks and balances. Failure to do that and they aren't doing their job and the role of an auditor becomes redundant. Because if anyone is going to engage in financial chicanery, it'll be management.

topmanamillion · 07-12-2019 02:28PM

kippy wrote: »

I don't disagree with your last paragraph but I have to disagree with some of the rest. There are some very good people working at grass roots and there are some clubs with fantastic facilities - these clubs' "academies" do tend to sweep up the kids of parents who think their kids have a chance of going professional (Mostly pipe dreams) and I've seen GAA and IRFU lose out to teenagers picking Soccer because of this (obviously depending on the area)

There are good people involved in junior clubs but the most of them are coaches and volunteers. Get to board level/local FA and the majority think they're the CEO of Manchester United.
Just a few examples.

Noel Kennedy of the Sligo/Leitrim league stood up at an AGM where no questions were allowed from the floor or press and told Delaney he was "The best CEO the FAI ever had"

With 100 or so delegates on their feet applauding Delaney. These were the people representing "grassroots".

The AGMs were all conducted in a similar fashion with no real scrutiny of the figures presented.

Delaney existed in an association which facilitated him at every rung of the ladder.

TheCitizen · 07-12-2019 02:44PM

smelly sock wrote: »

Wouldnt have a lot of hate for JD.

In the ha penny place in comparison to Seanie Fitz, Drumm, Sean Quinn and the Grehans. They really robbed people of a future.

Who are the Grehans?

Irishmale0399 · 07-12-2019 02:53PM

Lads the big question here is who was signing off on JDs contracts, bonus, pension etc. Looks like it was Coady and Murray, now the question has to be asked why didnt other board members get the info and what exactly were their roles on the board. That is something Conway has avoided answering permanently.

Furthermore, have we seen expenses for the board behind JD??? Whats was the procedure for signing off on contracts at executive level, 2 board members??? Were other members not obliged to be informed?? If that was the case the FAI could do jack sh1t against JD and would explain the payoff, however if the board had to be informed then it is a different case. It would mean one of the following; if members of the board signed of on contracts without informing other members surely they would not be valid if the rest of the board objected or alternatively the other members knwo of the deals on offer to JD and kept quiet. The payoff was to ensure they were not involved in any investigation or wrong doing.

DeanAustin · 07-12-2019 02:54PM

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Don't think this is right at all.

It was Deloitte that alleged that the FAI had kept a second set of accounts that they didn't know about.

It's easy to have a go at the auditor, but when you have a management team who are skillful in accounting gymnastics, it's very, very hard for auditors to uncover irregularities.

That's from 2019. Deloitte signed off their accounts for the previous 21 years. I'm not saying Deloitte are definitively to blame but they have questions to answer. And if it's shown that they didn't ask the right questions of the FAI, then flagging a problem too late or saying "we believed what we were being told" is not good enough and they should be held accountable.

FixdePitchmark · 07-12-2019 03:38PM

DeanAustin wrote: »

That's from 2019. Deloitte signed off their accounts for the previous 21 years. I'm not saying Deloitte are definitively to blame but they have questions to answer. And if it's shown that they didn't ask the right questions of the FAI, then flagging a problem too late or saying "we believed what we were being told" is not good enough and they should be held accountable.

exactly.

these lines that they only looked at what they were shown is bollix and excuse making.

Hope Deloitte go down with them.

Seth Brundle · 07-12-2019 03:49PM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Hope Deloitte go down with them.

If EY (formerly Ernst & Young) got out of the Anglo mess no bother then Deloittes will be grand!

07-12-2019 03:53PM

Player in Clare handed a 6 month ban for criticising their ongoing support for Delaney.

https://www.balls.ie/football/clare-football-john-delaney-421768

DeanAustin · 07-12-2019 03:58PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

If EY (formerly Ernst & Young) got out of the Anglo mess no bother then Deloittes will be grand!

That's the problem. Everyone comes up with an excuse and no one gets held accountable.

Deloitte's job was to ensure that the FAIs accounts were accurate. If they didn't do that, they should be held accountable and suffer consequences.

Delaneys job was to lead the FAI. They're bankrupt. It's incomprehensible that he walks away with a package. He should have been sacked for gross incompetence. No question.

The board are pleading ignorance. That's a dereliction of duty and they shouldn't get away with saying **** like, "my sin is a sin of omission rather than a sin of commission." Sorry but you were asleep at the wheel and grossly incompetent.

But everyone has an excuse and no one gets held accountable.

Seth Brundle · 07-12-2019 04:24PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Player in Clare handed a 6 month ban for criticising their ongoing support for Delaney.

https://www.balls.ie/football/clare-football-john-delaney-421768

According to the Indo, the player referred to the board as a shower of scumbags and citizens the committee directly.
However, the Indo article also says:

Independent.ie understands that the "shower of scumbags" and "complete reform is needed from Clare District Soccer League committee" comments were made back in March when the player in question was not a registered player with the Clare and District League.