Double tracking on Galway and Waterford lines

veryangryman · 03-12-2019 9:29am #1

As we know, once you branch off Dublin to Cork its 1 track with passing loops. Frustrating and means far less scheduled services.

Is there any plans to double track the Galway and Waterford lines. Seems to be demand to at least extend them for the commuter stretches

LXFlyer · 03-12-2019 10:06am

veryangryman wrote: »

As we know, once you branch off Dublin to Cork its 1 track with passing loops. Frustrating and means far less scheduled services.

Is there any plans to double track the Galway and Waterford lines. Seems to be demand to at least extend them for the commuter stretches

No plans for any additional track work at present.

Dynamic loops (longer loops allowing trains to pass while on the move) will likely be the next development rather than full double tracking, but there are absolutely no plans for any of that to happen within the current NDP period.

bk · 03-12-2019 10:48am

The 100 million that was wasted on the WRC would have been much better spent on double tracking the Galway line IMO.

yer man! · 03-12-2019 10:57am

Very curious to know what exactly will be done with the 1 Billion EUR that was announced by shane ross the last day. Improvements to the Galway Dublin line are much in need.

https://www.gov.ie/en/news/3079e6-minister-ross-announces-1-billion-investment-programme-in-rail-netwo/

LXFlyer · 03-12-2019 12:19pm

yer man! wrote: »

Very curious to know what exactly will be done with the 1 Billion EUR that was announced by shane ross the last day. Improvements to the Galway Dublin line are much in need.

https://www.gov.ie/en/news/3079e6-minister-ross-announces-1-billion-investment-programme-in-rail-netwo/

That is purely the required funding to maintain the railway in a safe condition. It is not extra funding.

The difference is that the Government have committed to the funding for the five year period rather than an annual commitment as part of the current spending. This allows the railway to plan their work for that five year period.

Lord Glentoran · 03-12-2019 2:29pm

bk wrote: »

The 100 million that was wasted on the WRC would have been much better spent on double tracking the Galway line IMO.

If there was a proposal to double track the Galway line the lobbyists who get the vapours about Limerick-Galway would definitely oppose that as well, as there would be a threadbare excuse that the formation was needed for a cycle path.

Markcheese · 03-12-2019 2:31pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

If there was a proposal to double track the Galway line the lobbyists who get the vapours about Limerick-Galway would definitely oppose that as well, as there would be a threadbare excuse that the formation was needed for a cycle path.

What?

MrAbyss · 03-12-2019 6:10pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

If there was a proposal to double track the Galway line the lobbyists who get the vapours about Limerick-Galway would definitely oppose that as well, as there would be a threadbare excuse that the formation was needed for a cycle path.

Huh?

Lord Glentoran · 03-12-2019 6:13pm

Markcheese wrote: »

What?

Glad you asked.

http://npf.ie/wp-content/uploads/0919-John-Mulligan.compressed.pdf

CatInABox · 03-12-2019 8:33pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Glad you asked.

http://npf.ie/wp-content/uploads/0919-John-Mulligan.compressed.pdf

Nothing in that suggests that they would be against double tracking the Dublin Galway line.

03-12-2019 9:26pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

If there was a proposal to double track the Galway line the lobbyists who get the vapours about Limerick-Galway would definitely oppose that as well, as there would be a threadbare excuse that the formation was needed for a cycle path.

Careful, your tinfoil hat is showing

hans aus dtschl · 03-12-2019 10:02pm

This poster seems to post in an anti-greenway (read: anti-cyclist) capacity relatively regularly. They can be safely ignored.

But just in case anyone is wondering, most of the cycle campaign groups in the country are heavily pro-railway and regularly decry the lack of rail investment.

road_high · 04-12-2019 2:58pm

veryangryman wrote: »

As we know, once you branch off Dublin to Cork its 1 track with passing loops. Frustrating and means far less scheduled services.

Is there any plans to double track the Galway and Waterford lines. Seems to be demand to at least extend them for the commuter stretches

I think the Waterford line was double track to Carlow years ago. Pretty busy line to be fair and increased a good bit recently

ohographite · 04-12-2019 8:06pm

I think these lines should be double-tracked and given a frequency of 15 trains each way daily.

cgcsb · 04-12-2019 9:02pm

bk wrote: »

The 100 million that was wasted on the WRC would have been much better spent on double tracking the Galway line IMO.

Double tracking Portarlington to Athlone would have provided the west of Ireland with an enviable train service, hourly to Galway and bi hourly in Westport in less than 2 and 3 hours respectively but no. A great shame.

donvito99 · 04-12-2019 9:17pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Double tracking Portarlington to Athlone would have provided the west of Ireland with an enviable train service, hourly to Galway and bi hourly in Westport in less than 2 and 3 hours respectively but no. A great shame.

Money well spent clearly, it serves the megalopolis that is Ardrahan.

puma5k · 04-12-2019 11:06pm

Oranmore is the same, the old station when it operatoed years and years ago, closed sometime in 1963, but still had cargo until the 1980s not they rebuilt a new station, more like a park and ride place about 3kms out from the village

old stations was just at the crossing of the oranmore to claregalway road

GerardKeating · 04-12-2019 11:15pm

veryangryman wrote: »

Is there any plans to double track the Galway and Waterford lines. Seems to be demand to at least extend them for the commuter stretches

Rather than double tracking to Waterford. It would rather reopen the PortLaois to Kilkenny line, and the Carlow to Waterford (via New Ross) line, this would give double track to waterford, but cover a wider area.

Lord Glentoran · 05-12-2019 12:24pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

This poster seems to post in an anti-greenway (read: anti-cyclist) capacity relatively regularly. They can be safely ignored.

But just in case anyone is wondering, most of the cycle campaign groups in the country are heavily pro-railway and regularly decry the lack of rail investment.

Anti cyclist my foot. Rail investment has been criticised many many times on boards so the balance needs to be redressed sometimes.

riddlinrussell · 05-12-2019 2:06pm

GerardKeating wrote: »

Rather than double tracking to Waterford. It would rather reopen the PortLaois to Kilkenny line, and the Carlow to Waterford (via New Ross) line, this would give double track to waterford, but cover a wider area.

Carlow/New Ross/Waterford being reopened is fairly pie in the sky given the New Ross to Waterford section just broke ground on a greenway, operationally simpler to double track the existing line too.

hans aus dtschl · 05-12-2019 3:17pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Anti cyclist my foot. Rail investment has been criticised many many times on boards so the balance needs to be redressed sometimes.

I agree. Bloody cyclists.

Lord Fairlord · 05-12-2019 3:17pm

veryangryman wrote: »

As we know, once you branch off Dublin to Cork its 1 track with passing loops. Frustrating and means far less scheduled services.

Is there any plans to double track the Galway and Waterford lines. Seems to be demand to at least extend them for the commuter stretches

Even just double tracking from Dublin to Athlone on the Galway line, as a start, would make sense IMO.

Pete_Cavan · 05-12-2019 3:52pm

As mentioned earlier, double tracking Portalington to Athlone should be the priority for rail investment outside of commuter areas.

cgcsb · 05-12-2019 5:16pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

As mentioned earlier, double tracking Portalington to Athlone should be the priority for rail investment outside of commuter areas.

I would say many will disagree given how wedged dub to Cork and Belfast is. Bringing an average trip to Cork down to 2 hours and making the service more than hourly will probably be the priority.

There are so many competing interests and many worth while investments but somehow we end up with things like the wrc

hans aus dtschl · 05-12-2019 5:57pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

As mentioned earlier, double tracking Portalington to Athlone should be the priority for rail investment outside of commuter areas.

Cork Limerick direct service maybe?

Surely would be cheaper cost project and the line would possibly be quite competitive with the poor road alignment that exists at present.

Pete_Cavan · 05-12-2019 10:04pm

cgcsb wrote: »

I would say many will disagree given how wedged dub to Cork and Belfast is. Bringing an average trip to Cork down to 2 hours and making the service more than hourly will probably be the priority.

There are so many competing interests and many worth while investments but somehow we end up with things like the wrc

The intention is already to bring Dublin - Cork down to two hours, track works ongoing and level crossing removal is at consultation stage. The Belfast line on approach to Dublin needs decongesting but this will be addressed by improvements to commuter/DART services. North of the border has big issues but not much the Irish government can do about them.

Pete_Cavan · 05-12-2019 10:07pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Cork Limerick direct service maybe?

Surely would be cheaper cost project and the line would possibly be quite competitive with the poor road alignment that exists at present.

Couldn't such a service be provided already? Surely that is more an issue of Irish Rail being happy to settle for an interchange service rather than an infrastructure issue?

LXFlyer · 05-12-2019 10:26pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The intention is already to bring Dublin - Cork down to two hours, track works ongoing and level crossing removal is at consultation stage. The Belfast line on approach to Dublin needs decongesting but this will be addressed by improvements to commuter/DART services. North of the border has big issues but not much the Irish government can do about them.

Just to clarify - The 2 hour journey time for Dublin-Cork would be for the key business trains.

The trains serving the normal stopping pattern of Portlaoise, Thurles, Limerick Junction and Mallow would be 2:15/2:20.

The Belfast line is frankly going to need joint funding from both the EU and the UK government somehow.

LXFlyer · 05-12-2019 10:29pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Cork Limerick direct service maybe?

Surely would be cheaper cost project and the line would possibly be quite competitive with the poor road alignment that exists at present.

With the new platform at Limerick Junction in place, and trackwork improvements completed, it should be possible to have northbound and southbound Cork trains arrive and depart Limerick Junction at the same time each hour.

That will remove the existing waiting times for connecting trains at Limerick Junction (especially to/from Cork) to/from Limerick.

I don’t see the need to be honest for anything more than that hourly connection.

LXFlyer · 05-12-2019 10:30pm

Lord Fairlord wrote: »

Even just double tracking from Dublin to Athlone on the Galway line, as a start, would make sense IMO.

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

As mentioned earlier, double tracking Portalington to Athlone should be the priority for rail investment outside of commuter areas.

Baby steps - start with long dynamic loops and work towards that goal.

ohographite · 05-12-2019 11:58pm

donvito99 wrote: »

Money well spent clearly, it serves the megalopolis that is Ardrahan.

I wasn't against this railway, but even I didn't think reopening Ardrahan station was a good idea.

hans aus dtschl · 06-12-2019 12:56am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Couldn't such a service be provided already? Surely that is more an issue of Irish Rail being happy to settle for an interchange service rather than an infrastructure issue?

Sorry, not my area of expertise, I just presumed that the trains couldn't get through the junction. It seems like an open goal for IÉ, so I thought there must be some technical issue.

I often defend IÉ on boards, but I wouldn't be so fond of interchanges to be honest. Leaving aside elderly/mobility impairments/small children, it's just an added level of complexity to factor into your journey. It's fine when the frequencies are really high, like 15 minute or whatever, but I wouldn't like it on an hourly service. I'd always prefer a direct service.

hans aus dtschl · 06-12-2019 12:57am

LXFlyer wrote: »

With the new platform at Limerick Junction in place, and trackwork improvements completed, it should be possible to have northbound and southbound Cork trains arrive and depart Limerick Junction at the same time each hour.

That will remove the existing waiting times for connecting trains at Limerick Junction (especially to/from Cork) to/from Limerick.

I don’t see the need to be honest for anything more than that hourly connection.

Hourly is loads, agreed. The connection is a different story, as per my previous post.

LXFlyer · 06-12-2019 7:59am

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Sorry, not my area of expertise, I just presumed that the trains couldn't get through the junction. It seems like an open goal for I so I thought there must be some technical issue.

I often defend Ion boards, but I wouldn't be so fond of interchanges to be honest. Leaving aside elderly/mobility impairments/small children, it's just an added level of complexity to factor into your journey. It's fine when the frequencies are really high, like 15 minute or whatever, but I wouldn't like it on an hourly service. I'd always prefer a direct service.

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Hourly is loads, agreed. The connection is a different story, as per my previous post.

The hourly connections at Limerick Junction to and from Limerick are guaranteed connections - I don’t see the issue.

Having the northbound and southbound Dublin-Cork trains passing each other at Limerick Junction means that the waiting time can be significantly cut back to provide a much better Cork-Limerick journey time.

The vast majority of Dublin-Limerick passengers change at Limerick Junction with no issue (as indeed do virtually all Dublin-Kerry passengers at Mallow). I don’t see why Cork-Limerick should be any different.

Lord Fairlord · 06-12-2019 3:41pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

Baby steps - start with long dynamic loops and work towards that goal.

Fair enough. I suppose that there are more urgent things to spend money on like protecting the Bray to Greystones line from erosion and quad, or at least triple tracking the northern line - although the latter may never happen.

Praetorian · 09-12-2019 1:26pm

Triple tracking the Northern line at least as far as Howth Junction would be hugely beneficial and must be more workable space was and cost wise than quad tracking it.

09-12-2019 2:20pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

Baby steps - start with long dynamic loops and work towards that goal.

People wonder why the network is so crap.......

kildarecommuter · 10-12-2019 11:52pm

The line to Galway (from Broadstone in Dublin via Mullingar) was originally double track. Singled in the 1920s/30s as an economy measure!
The alignment from Athlone to Galway could (with massive investment!) probably be doubled again.
Between Portarlington to Athlone the line was laid as single track so not sure there would be capacity to alter without rebuilding every bridge etc on the route.

LXFlyer · 10-12-2019 11:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

People wonder why the network is so crap.......

You don’t need to redouble the entire line to deliver more resilience.

Long dynamic loops allow for a degree of late running and allow trains to pass on the move.

The funds aren’t there to redouble the full line in any case.

veryangryman · 11-12-2019 1:46pm

kildarecommuter wrote: »

The line to Galway (from Broadstone in Dublin via Mullingar) was originally double track. Singled in the 1920s/30s as an economy measure!

And they look back on Cosgrave and his austerity as a good move. Is it any wonder people welcome back FF with open arms. Cheap fkrs with no ambition or big picture thinking

kildarecommuter · 11-12-2019 2:59pm

veryangryman wrote: »

And they look back on Cosgrave and his austerity as a good move. Is it any wonder people welcome back FF with open arms. Cheap fkrs with no ambition or big picture thinking

In fairness FF were in power late 50s early 60s when a large proportion of our rail network was axed !

bennyineire · 11-12-2019 9:36pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Double tracking Portarlington to Athlone would have provided the west of Ireland with an enviable train service, hourly to Galway and bi hourly in Westport in less than 2 and 3 hours respectively but no. A great shame.

Agreed, the whole line doesn't need to be double tracked, but if double tracked from Portarlington and Athenry to Galway that would make a massive difference to capacity and times

AAAAAAAAA · 12-12-2019 1:49pm

kildarecommuter wrote: »

The line to Galway (from Broadstone in Dublin via Mullingar) was originally double track. Singled in the 1920s/30s as an economy measure!

That genuinely doesn't make a lot of sense to me unless some cute hoor got to sell the rails and profit off them

Jamie2k9 · 12-12-2019 10:22pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

Baby steps - start with long dynamic loops and work towards that goal.

I think its is needed but I don't believe it will be ever considered by IE. They take a very conservative approach to signalling and this would not be compatible.

kildarecommuter · 12-12-2019 10:38pm

AAAAAAAAA wrote: »

That genuinely doesn't make a lot of sense to me unless some cute hoor got to sell the rails and profit off them

I think they were used elsewhere!
Great Southern Railway ( predecessor to CIE) was always short of money!

Double tracking on Galway and Waterford lines

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