Wide panning or scrolling movie scenes stuttering / frame loss

fonecrusher1 · 28-11-2019 11:23AM #1

Hi all,

Recently bought a 1080p Bomaker parrot 1 projector from Amazon and i'm very impressed with it so far. However....

I've noticed on wide panning movie scenes (like a wide scrolling landscape shot) or any scene where an object is moving across the screen quickly vertically or horizontally there is definitely stuttering / juddering which I assume is frame loss / un-syncing. Confirmed on Netflix and Amazon on PC and Amazon firestick. Have changed hdmi cable on PC, toggled screen refresh rate on Nvidia settings from 60hz down to 50, 24, 23. Nothing improves it.

No issues whatsover on PC monitor or TV. Checked playback using a separate laptop, same issue.

Very limited settings adjustment on projector itself. Just contrast, brightness, saturation adjustment. No way of changing refresh rate. No choice of modes available ie: Movie, Sport or Game mode etc.

Is it just a case that is a cheap projector so live with it? Any ideas welcome.

Thanks

slave1 · 28-11-2019 02:36PM

Are you watching UK specs, in which case your transmission is at 25hz so you would need a 25hz capability on your projector, you don't change the refresh rate on your projector, it's the input where you have power over the refresh rate e.g. on a pc going into NVIDIA resolution settings you can change to 24/25/29/30 etc but this avenue will only allow you to change based on the display connected so if you hook your laptop up directly to the projector see if you have the option to change refresh rate to 25

slave1 · 28-11-2019 02:41PM

Also, I would download a 24fps TV episode and check does that judder

fonecrusher1 · 28-11-2019 09:10PM

slave1 wrote: »

Are you watching UK specs, in which case your transmission is at 25hz so you would need a 25hz capability on your projector, you don't change the refresh rate on your projector, it's the input where you have power over the refresh rate e.g. on a pc going into NVIDIA resolution settings you can change to 24/25/29/30 etc but this avenue will only allow you to change based on the display connected so if you hook your laptop up directly to the projector see if you have the option to change refresh rate to 25

Hi and thanks for your reply.

I'll give you an example of what is producing the issue. Bladerunner 2049 on Netflix. Around 2 minutes in there are very wide pan scrolling landscape scenes. The juddering is very pronounced at this point in the film. It literally looks like frames have halved. I did try toggling the refresh rate on PC graphics settings but there wasn't any notable improvement. It seems the projector itself is ignoring my hz rate choice on PC.

I'm just wondering if its simply a trait with cheaper 1080p native projectors. Its a shame there is practically no advanced settings available in the UI.

slave1 · 30-11-2019 01:16PM

Gotya, as I said earlier I'm not aware of any projector where you can select from the projector end the refresh rate.
If your projector is fixed on say 24fps and you feed it 24fps then there should be no judder (although I think you are describing a panning shot which is not judder, it's pulldown and inavoidable for any projector but should be subtle and not as you describe). If however you feed it a 25fps (UK TV shows) it will still show it but you will have judder every 2seconds on any moving image, left/right/up/down, same but worse if you feed it 29/30fps source material (US TV shows)
This article explains it quite well.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/judder_24p.htm

I'm a judder freak and the only way around it is..... a lower high end Sony TV as Sony TV engines are renowned for their motion flow capabilities, especially their "true24fps" capable sets. It is imperative you check the specs of the TV to ensure it is 24/25/29/30 fps at 1080p and 2160p to cover all TV/movie viewing. I don't care about gaming.
Panasonic were the masters at motion for projectors but alas have exited the market, you will again need 24/25/29/30 fps at 1080p and 2160p native handling and a projector with expensive onboard capability, you won't get this sub a couple of grand unfortunately.
Right now I've a Sony XF9005 and there is zero judder except for the totally unavoidable slow panning shot, Epson 9300 projector and exact same.

fonecrusher1 · 30-11-2019 06:31PM

slave1 wrote: »

Gotya, as I said earlier I'm not aware of any projector where you can select from the projector end the refresh rate.
If your projector is fixed on say 24fps and you feed it 24fps then there should be no judder (although I think you are describing a panning shot which is not judder, it's pulldown and inavoidable for any projector but should be subtle and not as you describe). If however you feed it a 25fps (UK TV shows) it will still show it but you will have judder every 2seconds on any moving image, left/right/up/down, same but worse if you feed it 29/30fps source material (US TV shows)
This article explains it quite well.
https://www.projectorcentral.com/judder_24p.htm

I'm a judder freak and the only way around it is..... a lower high end Sony TV as Sony TV engines are renowned for their motion flow capabilities, especially their "true24fps" capable sets. It is imperative you check the specs of the TV to ensure it is 24/25/29/30 fps at 1080p and 2160p to cover all TV/movie viewing. I don't care about gaming.
Panasonic were the masters at motion for projectors but alas have exited the market, you will again need 24/25/29/30 fps at 1080p and 2160p native handling and a projector with expensive onboard capability, you won't get this sub a couple of grand unfortunately.
Right now I've a Sony XF9005 and there is zero judder except for the totally unavoidable slow panning shot, Epson 9300 projector and exact same.

Ok thanks for the link.

Yes you're right about the panning shot, that's what I mean't. That's where there appears to be frame loss. The scene stutters. The picture is just fine for any other type of scene. Anything were the camera is fixed for example on 2 people chatting the picture is fine, no judder.

You seem to know quite a bit so I have a few more questions if you don't mind.

So is there anything I can get as in an application / software for my PC that will neutralize the panning / scrolling judder effect? How is it that my quite inexpensive 27 inch 60hz AOC PC monitor shows none of this judder? I don't get it. Its also perfect downstairs on the house TV (50 inch LG bought last year)

Is there any point in getting a more expensive projector? If its going to mean more than 600/700 I just can't justify it for a few juddery spells in films. Are there any cheap to mid range projectors that would definitely not suffer from this? As in 200 - 500 euro range. Can you recommend anything on ebay or amazon?

If my PC is telling the Projector to output at the rate I choose why does the judder seem the same at 23,24,50 amd 60 hrz?

Thanks again for assistance by the way. Much appreciated.

slave1 · 03-12-2019 09:13AM

Is there any point in getting a more expensive projector? If its going to mean more than 600/700 I just can't justify it for a few juddery spells in films. Are there any cheap to mid range projectors that would definitely not suffer from this? As in 200 - 500 euro range. Can you recommend anything on ebay or amazon?

Perhaps a used 1080p projector, Panasonic PTAE8000 was my last guy and it was butter smooth but I upgraded because I wanted HDR and 2160p

If my PC is telling the Projector to output at the rate I choose why does the judder seem the same at 23,24,50 amd 60 hrz?
The projector needs to be capable of 23/24/50/60, if it's not then it will just display in it's native fps e.g. my Panasonic was butter smooth at 24fps but was not capable of 25fps (UK Blu Rays or TV downloads) so it would judder.

Thanks again for assistance by the way. Much appreciated.
No probs, been through the pains during the years to make it this far!

Wide panning or scrolling movie scenes stuttering / frame loss

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