Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2019/20

Strumms · 25-11-2019 07:18PM

kippy wrote: »

Nobody has patience anymore. What's the problem with giving Ole a few years to get the club in order.
What actual difference does it make to anyone here?

It isn’t Oles job to get the club in order... it’s Ole’s job to get the best out of the team. He isn’t doing that, he hasn’t done that since he’s been here and after each negative result he just proceeds to bullshît from the moon with his thoughts, excuses and confabulation...

Mitch Connor · 25-11-2019 07:19PM

kippy wrote: »

Of course it's an answer. If it doesn't suit you,fair enough

No it's not. Ole's suitability has nothing to do with what has gone before.

kippy · 25-11-2019 07:22PM

No patience here whatsoever.

United have gone through the various manager types at this stage. None have worked and some have sucked the club dry of wages and compensation. Leave it to Ole for a few years. He has as good a chance of sorting it as any of his predecessors or indeed any other manager out there.
No loss giving him plenty time.

Zeek12 · 25-11-2019 07:22PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Ole and Moyes now have almost identical records as manager of United.

34 games played, 57 points!

A fairly pointless comparison.

Moyes inherits a title winning squad just weeks after they lift the PL Trophy. With loads of proven winners, with pedigree.

Ole inherits a bunch of largely inconsistent and unmotivated players (with a few exceptions). Has to start clearing out the squad, rebuilding with younger players, ends up with a fairly modest net spend of under £70M (and reduces wage bill substantially too with loan deals).

Did people really think it was going to be much different this season? With a squad this paper-thin in midfield and so inexperienced in attack?

I'd agree we should still be better than 9th, and we've definitely dropped a few handy points. The manager has to learn from this.
But the negativity is a bit overblown. Realistically Top 6 is the best this squad of players could achieve.

Ordinary man · 25-11-2019 07:29PM

Ole can't win with some supporters. Yesterday he took off martial for tuanezebe and got slated for going defensive while he still had rashford, greenwood, lingard and james on the pitch. If he didn't do that he would have been slated for being naive. Some posters seem to think the squad is capable of top 4, that's laughable. Maybe if there wasn't injuries and if the likes of mata and matic showed any kind of performance. Pereira should only be a squad player at best but look at all the games he has started.

There is always going to be inconsistancy in a team that relies on so many young players, ole's biggest mistake was believing in the likes of matic ,mata, lingard, maguire and lindelof to step up and show leadership to the younger players and they have shrivelled up instead. I'm willing to give him time and hopefully he gets backed in the transfer window because i honestly believe no manager could get much more out of the current squad

xtal191 · 25-11-2019 07:30PM

Ole is first manager post Fergie who hasn't improved the team over the previous manager. Van Gaal was an improvement over Moyes, Mourinho was an improvement over Van Gaal, Ole has been worse than the lot of them.

Mitch Connor · 25-11-2019 07:31PM

kippy wrote: »

No patience here whatsoever.

United have gone through the various manager types at this stage. None have worked and some have sucked the club dry of wages and compensation. Leave it to Ole for a few years. He has as good a chance of sorting it as any of his predecessors or indeed any other manager out there.
No loss giving him plenty time.

Ole has the team performing worse than the managers who came before him. In terms of structures, patterns and play there is no improvement.

The idea that he has as good a chance as anyone else of sorting it is utter rubbish. There is no evidence in his career as a manager to indicate that he is a top level coach or manager. There is no evidence that he would have Liverpool or City playing as they do with the players they have.

The loss of giving him plenty of time is, at the moment, having us in relegation battles. Removing any chance that any player with any ambition would want to play for United. Look at the results and points per game since Paris.

There is zero evidence that Ole has the nous, the acumen or the ability to turn united in to a top side regardless of the players.

If Ole was fired, do you think he'd be on the radar of Arsenal? Do you think Everton or Southampton would go after him? Newcaslte?

kippy · 25-11-2019 07:33PM

xtal191 wrote: »

Ole is first manager post Fergie who hasn't improved the team over the previous manager. Van Gaal was an improvement over Moyes, Mourinho was an improvement over Van Gaal, Ole has been worse than the lot of them.

How long is Ole in place.....8 months? 2 quarter seasons....
Zero patience

Mitch Connor · 25-11-2019 07:36PM

Ordinary man wrote: »

Ole can't win with some supporters. Yesterday he took off martial for tuanezebe and got slated for going defensive while he still had rashford, greenwood, lingard and james on the pitch. If he didn't do that he would have been slated for being naive. Some posters seem to think the squad is capable of top 4, that's laughable. Maybe if there wasn't injuries and if the likes of mata and matic showed any kind of performance. Pereira should only be a squad player at best but look at all the games he has started.

There is always going to be inconsistancy in a team that relies on so many young players, ole's biggest mistake was believing in the likes of matic ,mata, lingard, maguire and lindelof to step up and show leadership to the younger players and they have shrivelled up instead. I'm willing to give him time and hopefully he gets backed in the transfer window because i honestly believe no manager could get much more out of the current squad

Bringing on an actual midfielder, Garner, instead of Tuanzebe was the sub that should have been made.

What did we see from Mata or Matic last season that would have us thinking they'd be top performers for us this season? They are players that should have been replaced in the summer too - that he is relying on Pereira is down to the squad decisions he has made. You can't absolve him of the problems their poor performances cause, when their poor performances were predictable.

kippy · 25-11-2019 07:36PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Ole has the team performing worse than the managers who came before him. In terms of structures, patterns and play there is no improvement.

The idea that he has as good a chance as anyone else of sorting it is utter rubbish. There is no evidence in his career as a manager to indicate that he is a top level coach or manager. There is no evidence that he would have Liverpool or City playing as they do with the players they have.

The loss of giving him plenty of time is, at the moment, having us in relegation battles. Removing any chance that any player with any ambition would want to play for United. Look at the results and points per game since Paris.

There is zero evidence that Ole has the nous, the acumen or the ability to turn united in to a top side regardless of the players.

If Ole was fired, do you think he'd be on the radar of Arsenal? Do you think Everton or Southampton would go after him? Newcaslte?

Ultimately what is wrong with relegation, if as you think that's a possible outcome. Aren't fans here complaining about the owners, directors etc etc, one way of resetting.

Van Gaal and Mourinho had a a tonne of past experience/nous and whatever BS you want to assign them, yet where did that all end?

As for players signing for United,how many big name turkeys have signed for crazy money and crazy wages over the past 7 years.

Christ ye need to listen to yerselves for a while in here.

Mitch Connor · 25-11-2019 07:42PM

kippy wrote: »

How long is Ole in place.....8 months? 2 quarter seasons....
Zero patience

And what have we seen that indicates he should be given more? We've lost 15 of the last 30 games! on what planet is that acceptable or a sign that we are on the right track.

of the other 15 games we have dran 7 of them.

Our defending is poor.
Our midfield is poor.
Our attack is poor.

Why would you continue to back the judgement of a manager that has overseen this?

Mitch Connor · 25-11-2019 07:44PM

kippy wrote: »

Ultimately what is wrong with relegation=

oh ffs. done with your trolling on this so.

Zeek12 · 25-11-2019 07:47PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What did we see from Mata or Matic last season that would have us thinking they'd be top performers for us this season? They are players that should have been replaced in the summer too - that he is relying on Pereira is down to the squad decisions he has made. You can't absolve him of the problems their poor performances cause, when their poor performances were predictable.

Fairly inconsistent logic there.

When Jones, Smalling, Darmian etc. weren't shipped out in 2018 and replaced - it was all the boards/Ed's fault. And Mourinho was blameless according to many.

Same problem re-occurs last summer with other players...and the manager now is apparently totally to blame?

25-11-2019 07:48PM

xtal191 wrote: »

Ole is first manager post Fergie who hasn't improved the team over the previous manager. Van Gaal was an improvement over Moyes, Mourinho was an improvement over Van Gaal, Ole has been worse than the lot of them.

Moyes didn't get a second summer to clear out the players who were clearly past it. It still may not have worked out in the future but getting rid of him then is the root cause of the team being where they are now. Fergie's last words, stand by the new manager. The soul was ripped out of the club that Summer as they tried to become just another superclub. Throw money at the problem rather than try to foster a winning culture based on consistency and attitude rather than mercenaries.

The club is probably finished. You could say I guess that if the Saudis come in they could throw enough money at it to fix it and some would be delighted but I don't see how they can go on assuming money will fix it. It's getting the commitment back and fostering winners. Ole has got further towards fixing the rot than his predecessors and for that reason I'd be happy to overlook his less than stellar tactical displays this season and see what he can do with a few higher quality attackers.

Ordinary man · 25-11-2019 07:51PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Bringing on an actual midfielder, Garner, instead of Tuanzebe was the sub that should have been made.

What did we see from Mata or Matic last season that would have us thinking they'd be top performers for us this season? They are players that should have been replaced in the summer too - that he is relying on Pereira is down to the squad decisions he has made. You can't absolve him of the problems their poor performances cause, when their poor performances were predictable.

Woodward is the one who is supposed to buy the replacements not ole. Maybe ole should have copied jose when he the squad wasn't improved and threw a strop and waited to be sacked with a payoff. We don't know if woodward had promised him replacements or not. All i see is a manager trying to make the best of what he's got atm and i prefer that to what jose or poch did when they didn't get what they wanted

Mitch Connor · 25-11-2019 07:51PM

Zeek12 wrote: »

Fairly inconsistent logic there.

When Jones, Smalling, Darmian etc. weren't shipped out in 2018 and replaced - it was all the boards/Ed's fault. And Mourinho was blameless according to many.

Same problem re-occurs last summer with other players...and the manager now is apparently totally to blame?

the manager who said he is happy with the squad. The manager who allowed players to move on (Fellaini, Herrera, Lukaku) without replacing them. If he couldnt replace them, he shouldn't have sanctioned their sale.

Ole was happy to see Fellaini and Herrera leave without being replaced, and rely on Mata, Matic and Pereira.

kippy · 25-11-2019 07:56PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

oh ffs. done with your trolling on this so.

Ha, disagree with someone, call them a troll. Report the post.

Mitch Connor · 25-11-2019 07:57PM

kippy wrote: »

Ha, disagree with someone, call them a troll. Report the post.

when the argument gets to 'So what if Ole gets us relegated', its beyond the point of just disagreeing.

Zeek12 · 25-11-2019 08:00PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

the manager who said he is happy with the squad. The manager who allowed players to move on (Fellaini, Herrera, Lukaku) without replacing them. If he couldnt replace them, he shouldn't have sanctioned their sale.

Ole was happy to see Fellaini and Herrera leave without being replaced, and rely on Mata, Matic and Pereira.

It's obvious he's trying to build team spirit and togetherness when he says these things. Boost the young players confidence.
I doubt he really believes it privately. For all we know the club were just as unsupportive with the purse strings this summer as they were last time.

Lukaku practically forced his way out in a massive sulk.
The Herrera thing was messed up before Ole even took over, he tried to rescue it but was far too late.

He moved on Darmian and Sanchez and those are positives. The squad needs so much surgery and the club are not making it easy financially speaking. Its going to take a long time to fix the colossal mess we are in, and to fix some of the terrible decisions of the last 5 years.

Mitch Connor · 25-11-2019 08:02PM

Zeek12 wrote: »

It's obvious he's trying to build team spirit and togetherness when he says these things. Boost the young players confidence.
I doubt he really believes it privately. For all we know the club were just as unsupportive with the purse strings this summer as they were last time.

Lukaku practically forced his way out in a massive sulk.
The Herrera thing was messed up before Ole even took over, he tried to rescue it but was far too late.

they should have been replaced. There is no evidence that Ole pushed united to do so.

adox · 25-11-2019 08:02PM

Ha I’m honestly baffled by some of the opinions on here.

Getting rid of Moyes so quickly caused the problems??

I think the exact opposite. Not getting rid of him quick enough started causing the problems. The rot was aloud set in in the dressing room and the club. The players were shown that the standards had gone out the door with Fergie and Gill. Mediocrity would be tolerated. Indecision would be the norm. Manchester Utd were now being run by amateurs.

Decisive action when it was clear Moyes wasn’t going to work may have been a catalyst to stop this cataclysmic slide. I think it was one of the worst decisions the club has ever taken allowing Moyes to stay in charge up until and after Christmas.

Also the “sure we’ve tried and sacked loads of managers” spiel as an argument to leave Ole in charge is farcical. Apart from it being a stupid and simplistic argument, even giving it some credence, why would decide to stick with the least experienced manager we have had. A manager that is doing a horrible job with the squad, with the playing style, with the points total. Sure I’d you want to go down that route we should have stuck with Jose, the most successful manager we’ve appointed post Fergie.

Everyone knows there are bigger problems at the club, namely the CEO and the owners but that doesn’t mean the manager shouldn’t be held to account.

Oles reign has been appalling. He should be sacked.

kippy · 25-11-2019 08:04PM

adox wrote: »

Ha I’m honestly baffled by some of the opinions on here.

Getting rid of Moyes so quickly caused the problems??

I think the exact opposite. Not getting rid of him quick enough started causing the problems. The rot was aloud set in in the dressing room and the club. The players were shown that the standards had gone out the door with Fergie and Gill. Mediocrity would be tolerated. Indecision would be the norm. Manchester Utd were now being run by amateurs.

Decisive action when it was clear Moyes wasn’t going to work may have been a catalyst to stop this cataclysmic slide. I think it was one of the worst decisions the club has ever taken allowing Moyes to stay in charge up until and after Christmas.

Also the “sure we’ve tried and sacked loads of managers” spiel as an argument to leave Ole in charge is farcical. Apart from it being a stupid and simplistic argument, even giving it some credence, why would decide to stick with the least experienced manager we have had. A manager that is doing a horrible job with the squad, with the playing style, with the points total. Sure I’d you want to go down that route we should have stuck with Jose, the most successful manager we’ve appointed post Fergie.

Everyone knows there are bigger problems at the club, namely the CEO and the owners but that doesn’t mean the manager shouldn’t be held to account.

Oles reign has been appalling. He should be sacked.

When and where does it stop.

kippy · 25-11-2019 08:05PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

when the argument gets to 'So what if Ole gets us relegated', its beyond the point of just disagreeing.

You brought it up.

Mitch Connor · 25-11-2019 08:06PM

kippy wrote: »

You brought it up.

as a reason for sacking him!
and you said whats the problem with that? Sure stick with Ole no matter what is happening.

Zeek12 · 25-11-2019 08:07PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

they should have been replaced. There is no evidence that Ole pushed united to do so.

If you want a manager repeatedly going to war with the club - and several players too - and creating a circus in the media, you're entitled to have that preference of course.

But there are other ways to manage.

And you have no evidence he didn't push hard for replacements - in private.

Mitch Connor · 25-11-2019 08:15PM

Zeek12 wrote: »

If you want a manager repeatedly going to war with the club - and several players too - and creating a circus in the media, you're entitled to have that preference of course.

But there are other ways to manage.

And you have no evidence he didn't push hard for replacements - in private.

not a single story coming out of the club indicate Ole was pushing for a midfielder, or a winger, or a forward. Maybe the club have got really good at shutting negative press down... but I doubt it.

There is nothing to suggest Ole is particularly unhappy with the the squad.

He didn't need to go to war. Just needed to say there is no way we can sell Fellaini, or Lukaku, without replacing them. They get replaced or they stay.

bucketybuck · 25-11-2019 08:17PM

Gary Neville embarrassing himself again tonight.

Go on Gary, its ok, you can criticise your mate, he'll forgive you I'm sure...

Lord TSC · 25-11-2019 08:24PM

If some people are being serious, they need to read up on the "Sunk Cost Fallacy". Just because time has been committed to a scenario doesn't justify continuing it.

No one can offer up something unique about Ole that means he should keep his job. It's all just "Well, he's got it, so we absolutely can't take it away from him now."

kippy · 25-11-2019 08:29PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

If some people are being serious, they need to read up on the "Sunk Cost Fallacy". Just because time has been committed to a scenario doesn't justify continuing it.

No one can offer up something unique about Ole that means he should keep his job. It's all just "Well, he's got it, so we absolutely can't take it away from him now."

Here's the Unique thing. Have some patience with the guy. Give him three years minimum no matter what the outcome.
Unique in an age of unrealistic expectations.

bucketybuck · 25-11-2019 08:33PM

kippy wrote: »

Here's the Unique thing. Have some patience with the guy. Give him three years minimum no matter what the outcome.
Unique in an age of unrealistic expectations.

Why? Give me one reason why the club should do that?

Give me one reason based on Ole's merits rather than vague generalities that could apply to anybody no matter who they were.

His record is atrocious, so why does he deserve more time? Why?

Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2019/20

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