Overcrowding on buses to/from Lucan

Sad Professor · 23-11-2019 9:32am #1

Has it ever been this bad? 25a/b is a total disaster at times. I go out very early in the morning, but have had to start going even earlier as it seems everyone else has the same idea. Getting home is a nightmare even before peak time. Dublin Bus say they are aware of increase in capacity in the 25a/b route and are working to address it but I'm not holding my breath.

r93kaey5p2izun · 23-11-2019 8:32pm

It is very bad and getting worse. There has been a significant increase in population, but no increase in bus service. Reliability is also a big problem on the 25a with lots of cancelled services. And Bus Connects doesn't offer much hope. No additional city bound services, and in fact the loss of the 25 will mean even more pressure on the C1/C2 (25a/b) from the mass of new houses in the Dodsboro area. And that's before Clonburris is factored in.

Spanish Eyes · 23-11-2019 8:36pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

Has it ever been this bad? 25a/b is a total disaster at times. I go out very early in the morning, but have had to start going even earlier as it seems everyone else has the same idea. Getting home is a nightmare even before peak time. Dublin Bus say they are aware of increase in capacity in the 25a/b route and are working to address it but I'm not holding my breath.

You might consider moving this thread to Commuting and Transport. Plenty of knowledgeable heads over there who may have an inside track.

Not saying anyone on this board is not the same, but there is much more traffic (lol) on C+T.

Just a thought.

unkel · 23-11-2019 11:38pm

Moved to Commuting & Transport

AlekSmart · 24-11-2019 12:27am

Sad Professor wrote: »

Has it ever been this bad? 25a/b is a total disaster at times. I go out very early in the morning, but have had to start going even earlier as it seems everyone else has the same idea. Getting home is a nightmare even before peak time. Dublin Bus say they are aware of increase in capacity in the 25a/b route and are working to address it but I'm not holding my breath.

One straightforward and non-contentious method of addressing the capacity problem,is for the NTA to reverse it's unhealthy pre-occupation with Short-Wheelbase Dual-Doored vehicles.

Replacing 123 capacity Alexander VT tri-axles with 68 capacity Wrights SG type was not the smartest thing to do.
What was even less smart was the refusal,in the face of continuing overloading,to admit that larger Capacity vehicles actually are necessary.

It would be prudent to suspend the 14 year lifespan requirement,at least in the medium term,so that some of the AX class can be refurbished & retained as additional capacity.

TheChrisD · 24-11-2019 12:31am

Matthias Green Bathtub wrote: »

And Bus Connects doesn't offer much hope. No additional city bound services, and in fact the loss of the 25 will mean even more pressure on the C1/C2 (25a/b) from the mass of new houses in the Dodsboro area.

I don't know if I'm interpreting the report wrong - I think the C1/C2 is going up to 8 services an hour for the peak hours, in addition to four peak express buses (4 via Lucan SC, 4 via Dods) that go in straight down the N4.

Matthias Green Bathtub wrote: »

And that's before Clonburris is factored in.

I would think there might be some scope in the spine system to cater to Clonburris once it's built, perhaps with an extra bus on the G-spine that goes straight down Thomas Omer.

BonnieSituation · 24-11-2019 12:35am

The opening of Kishoge and having a non-Foxborough service in the mornings would do a world of good.

sharper · 24-11-2019 12:39am

The 25/a/b was always well subscribed but the numbers trying to use it since September are staggering. There's obviously some link to school/college here so my guess is college students are attempting to commute from Lucan into the city centre.

Aston Quay is probably where you want to get it if possible. There are throngs of people waiting there to get on.

It doesn't help that the frequency doesn't start to ramp up until 4:30pm which then takes a while before it hits the quays. By then there's easily several bus loads of people waiting.

I've seen people get so frustrated after 20 minutes of busses passing by they storm off away from the stop.

It's a shame the Luas to Lucan never happened.

Joker2019 · 24-11-2019 12:44am

AlekSmart wrote: »

One straightforward and non-contentious method of addressing the capacity problem,is for the NTA to reverse it's unhealthy pre-occupation with Short-Wheelbase Dual-Doored vehicles.

Replacing 123 capacity Alexander VT tri-axles with 68 capacity Wrights SG type was not the smartest thing to do.
What was even less smart was the refusal,in the face of continuing overloading,to admit that larger Capacity vehicles actually are necessary.

It would be prudent to suspend the 14 year lifespan requirement,at least in the medium term,so that some of the AX class can be refurbished & retained as additional capacity.

The problem with the VTs are they are not utilised to their full capacity often a battle to board one with passengers blocking the aisle crowding around the driver while seats are plentiful upstairs. The only when full capacity is utilised is when the driver tells people to go upstairs not exactly highly efficient 21st century public transport is it now.

As for the capacity the SGs can take 95 passengers when you include standees. The buses have a more open plan layout which means people are more likely to move down the bus and utilise capacity to the full.

ligerdub · 24-11-2019 12:52am

You think it's bad in Lucan? It's worse closer to town in the likes of Palmerstown, Chapelizod and Islandbridge, although I suspect that at least town is walkable for some of the Kilmainham/Islandbridge folk.

Working in town is bordering on unfeasible for people living on that stretch, the service is nothing short of abysmal and will not be fixed any time soon.

r93kaey5p2izun · 24-11-2019 1:05am

TheChrisD wrote: »

I don't know if I'm interpreting the report wrong - I think the C1/C2 is going up to 8 services an hour for the peak hours, in addition to four peak express buses (4 via Lucan SC, 4 via Dods) that go in straight down the N4.

There's already 7-8 services per hour at peak times on each of the 25a and 25b, plus 4 departures on the 25d. And a couple of 25s and 3 25X taking people from Dodsboro.

And it's not enough.

I don't see any increase over that in the Bus Connects proposals.

BonnieSituation · 24-11-2019 2:21am

sharper wrote: »

The 25/a/b was always well subscribed but the numbers trying to use it since September are staggering. There's obviously some link to school/college here so my guess is college students are attempting to commute from Lucan into the city centre.

Aston Quay is probably where you want to get it if possible. There are throngs of people waiting there to get on.

It doesn't help that the frequency doesn't start to ramp up until 4:30pm which then takes a while before it hits the quays. By then there's easily several bus loads of people waiting.

I've seen people get so frustrated after 20 minutes of busses passing by they storm off away from the stop.

It's a shame the Luas to Lucan never happened.

Luas to Lucan is a terrible idea. But that's not what this thread is about for now.

Getting the 25a/b from Aston Quay has been a no go for years though for me. I just head straight for Pearse St most of the time.

Charles Babbage · 24-11-2019 3:10am

Joker2019 wrote: »

The problem with the VTs are they are not utilised to their full capacity often a battle to board one with passengers blocking the aisle crowding around the driver while seats are plentiful upstairs. The only when full capacity is utilised is when the driver tells people to go upstairs not exactly highly efficient 21st century public transport is it now.
.

Perhaps the VTs would be useful for X type services rather than situations where people are getting on and off all the time.

thomasj · 24-11-2019 3:35am

Charles Babbage wrote:

Perhaps the VTs would be useful for X type services rather than situations where people are getting on and off all the time.

Aren't VTs already operating X routes on the Lucan Road corridor?

They're on the 39As full time and it's safe to say they're badly needed on the route.

Enough times I have had to stand at the ticket machine inside the front door the VT bus was so full (39A route has issues with sticking to it's timetable at times there's constant cancellations )

Trebor176 · 24-11-2019 12:36pm

thomasj wrote: »

Aren't VTs already operating X routes on the Lucan Road corridor?

They're on the 39As full time and it's safe to say they're badly needed on the route.

Enough times I have had to stand at the ticket machine inside the front door the VT bus was so full (39A route has issues with sticking to it's timetable at times there's constant cancellations )

VT36-43 are mainly used on the 66X and 67X, along with AXs from Broadstone, the odd Broadstone VG, and mainly SGs from Phibsboro.

The 25X is mainly Broadstone AXs, the odd Broadstone VG, and whatever C/Road stick on it. I did see VT42 on it one of the mornings a couple of weeks ago, though, which surprised me.

veryangryman · 24-11-2019 5:13pm

Lucan is indeed a disaster. Where possible I used to try and get the bus from its first stop to ensure a space. Annoying but necessary

dfx- · 25-11-2019 12:33pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

One straightforward and non-contentious method of addressing the capacity problem,is for the NTA to reverse it's unhealthy pre-occupation with Short-Wheelbase Dual-Doored vehicles.

Replacing 123 capacity Alexander VT tri-axles with 68 capacity Wrights SG type was not the smartest thing to do.
What was even less smart was the refusal,in the face of continuing overloading,to admit that larger Capacity vehicles actually are necessary.

It would be prudent to suspend the 14 year lifespan requirement,at least in the medium term,so that some of the AX class can be refurbished & retained as additional capacity.

But how could anyone have foreseen such events? Squashed full buses are better for the bean counters. Also the VTs that are left are genuinely needed for the 66X/67X too and 39s, so there can't be transfers. VT1-20 would be super useful right now.

An SG has 68 people seated I think. There's no way it has ever carried 95 people. There are 91 seats on a VT + standees.

Dravokivich · 25-11-2019 12:55pm

sharper wrote: »

The 25/a/b was always well subscribed but the numbers trying to use it since September are staggering. There's obviously some link to school/college here so my guess is college students are attempting to commute from Lucan into the city centre.

Aston Quay is probably where you want to get it if possible. There are throngs of people waiting there to get on.

It doesn't help that the frequency doesn't start to ramp up until 4:30pm which then takes a while before it hits the quays. By then there's easily several bus loads of people waiting.

I've seen people get so frustrated after 20 minutes of busses passing by they storm off away from the stop.

It's a shame the Luas to Lucan never happened.

You'll just be complaining about the same thing, but swapping out bus for luas. The darts, commuters, buses and luas services are all heavily crowded. The issue isnt just 1 individual operator to address. It goes much higher up if all service providers are flailing.

veryangryman · 25-11-2019 2:59pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

You'll just be complaining about the same thing, but swapping out bus for luas. The darts, commuters, buses and luas services are all heavily crowded. The issue isnt just 1 individual operator to address. It goes much higher up if all service providers are flailing.

Agree. Election coming up.

Dravokivich · 25-11-2019 3:05pm

veryangryman wrote: »

Agree. Election coming up.

Yeah but unfortunately what I've seen of the folks running for it, they aren't thinking of the wider appeal they should be making regarding how the country is run. They seem to be primarily focused local issues. If they keep doing that, very little will be done about it. It'll come down to whenever the NTA get around to it (if they do...).

hmmm · 25-11-2019 8:17pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Yeah but unfortunately what I've seen of the folks running for it, they aren't thinking of the wider appeal they should be making regarding how the country is run.

We've seen the LUAS metro expansion get blocked because of the interests of a small number of protesters at one junction. It's happening everywhere that small groups are blocking public transport for much wider areas.

If you're talking to politicians, I'd say you should be asking them to give the transport planners the authority to make the changes they know are needed, and take power away from NIMBY groups. In Lucan that might involve route changes to avoid buses getting tied up meandering through housing estates which are only 5 minutes walk from a main road.

Dravokivich · 25-11-2019 9:38pm

hmmm wrote: »

We've seen the LUAS metro expansion get blocked because of the interests of a small number of protesters at one junction. It's happening everywhere that small groups are blocking public transport for much wider areas.

If you're talking to politicians, I'd say you should be asking them to give the transport planners the authority to make the changes they know are needed, and take power away from NIMBY groups. In Lucan that might involve route changes to avoid buses getting tied up meandering through housing estates which are only 5 minutes walk from a main road.

You have people on these threads talking about walking to the start or earlier sections of the route. Their issue is capicity. Not the meandering. Parish pump wont fix that, when seeking additional capacity as it could pull attention from other areas that need it too. It's just the old robbing peter to pay paul.

hmmm · 25-11-2019 10:13pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

Their issue is capicity. Not the meandering.

We can't simply put on unlimited 25a/bs, and have them spending half their trip almost empty. Busconnects recognises this at least, but the pump has got to that as well.

r93kaey5p2izun · 26-11-2019 12:25am

hmmm wrote: »

We can't simply put on unlimited 25a/bs, and have them spending half their trip almost empty. Busconnects recognises this at least, but the pump has got to that as well.

Can you clarify this please? Do you mean buses are currently empty due to a meandering route in Lucan? This is not true. The 25a inbound fills up within the first 4-6 stops then remains full until the quays. Outbound full by Aston Quay and remains significantly packed until at least Foxborough.

Also - how does Bus Connects recognise this? It proposes more or less no changes to the 25a/b in Lucan.

Lord Glentoran · 26-11-2019 11:24am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Luas to Lucan is a terrible idea. But that's not what this thread is about for now.

Getting the 25a/b from Aston Quay has been a no go for years though for me. I just head straight for Pearse St most of the time.

And this is exactly why Lucan commuters will be forked for the foreseeable future. Trams are bad, mmm’kay?

hmmm · 26-11-2019 12:07pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

And this is exactly why Lucan commuters will be forked for the foreseeable future. Trams are bad, mmm’kay?

I've never understood the appeal of LUAS to Lucan. How many Lucanites are going to sit on a tram for an hour while it weaves through Ballyer, when they could hop on a bus and be in town in 30 minutes (off-peak). It will only ever be used at peak hours, or in short trips up and down to Liffey Valley. Much better to run a tram around Lucan, Adamstown itself, and link it to either the rail or bus network into town.

Overcrowding on buses to/from Lucan

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