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Landlord Entering Property Without Permission

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  • 21-11-2019 10:29am
    #1
    sodafountain
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭


    I'm hoping someone can advise me on what to do here...

    Back story is I'm a first time renter and I'm not sure how to approach this situation. My husband and I own our own home and have lived there happily with our 3 kids and our dog, however, back in June our neighbours were having huge renovations done to their house, but their builders managed to cause very significant structural damage to our house in the process. It is so bad that we've had to move out while repair works are done, because the house is not safe to live in until all the damage is put right. This meant that we had to jump into the rental market, and we were lucky enough to find a house that would take the dog too.

    Over the last few months, there have been occasions when I've gotten the feeling that someone has been in the house while I have been out. There's never been anything glaringly obvious, but it there would be little things moved, or internal doors I'd swear I closed before leaving would be open when I got back. There was nothing really concrete, and part of me thought I was going insane, so my husband suggested we get a few of those Nest cameras and stick them up round the house.

    We put them up at the start of October, and lo and behold, there have now been 3 instances where the landlord has let himself in to the house and had a mooch around while I've been out.

    In terms of our lease, we have a fixed one-year lease and it's definitely for the entire house (ie it's not a licensee situation) and it specifies that the landlord may not enter the property without prior notice to the tenant, barring an emergency situation.

    He's never been in to inspect the place since we moved in, and I had remarked to my husband that I thought this strange seeing as how he knows we've never rented before, and we also have a pet. I'd have expected at least a quarterly inspection in those circumstances, however if he's been regularly letting himself in to have a look around, that would explain why he's never asked to inspect the property. I always have the house spotless, and our dog sleeps in a crate, so there's no issue with him having the run of the house while we're not home. Also, what is extra creepy is that he seems to know my routine; when I drop the kids to school in the morning, I always bring the dog with me and stop off in the nearby park on the way back, to walk the dog. This is always the time when he calls in, and I suspect it's because he knows the dog isn't there.

    I've no idea what to do about this. My husband is absolutely furious and wants to report him to the Guards. I'm not sure what to do because I don't want him to find some excuse to boot us out. That being said, I'm absolutely not ok with him coming in and snooping around while we're not there. I've no problem with him inspecting the place, but this is not on. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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    #2
    Doop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Doop


    I would suggest sending him a letter/email telling him you have observed him entering the property without permission (and have evidence of same) and that the guards have been notified and will be in contact should this occur again. Should he want to inspect the property it needs to be in accordance with the lease.

    I presume you want to stay in the property and play out the lease which is why personally if it were me I would play a slightly soft approach as per the above. This way he knows the score...wont do it again...and you get to get on with living there short term. You kind of want to slightly keep him onside while embarrassing him also...? (I would suggest anyway)

    Also side note the gaurds will most likely fob you off with 'its a civil matter'


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    #3
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    If it was me I'd speak to him and tell him the time and dates he was in the house and that if it happens again you'll take things further. Dont mention the cameras.

    Read your lease as well and see if there are any break clauses that allow the landlord to evict during the fixed term and whether these apply to your current situation (though that is very unlikely).

    You could refer to the RTB who may take action against the landlord but up to you whether you want to go down that route initially.


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    #4
    tommythecat
    Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭tommythecat


    Doop wrote: »
    I would suggest sending him a letter/email telling him you have observed him entering the property without permission (and have evidence of same) and that the guards have been notified and will be in contact should this occur again. Should he want to inspect the property it needs to be in accordance with the lease.

    I presume you want to stay in the property and play out the lease which is why personally if it were me I would play a slightly soft approach as per the above. This way he knows the score...wont do it again...and you get to get on with living there short term. You kind of want to slightly keep him onside while embarrassing him also...? (I would suggest anyway)

    I would do all of this except mentioning the guards. That will just get confrontational. The embarrassment of being caught on camera should be enough to put an end to his visits. If he is defensive etc then you can bring the guards up.

    4kwp South East facing PV System. 5.3kwh Weco battery. South Dublin City.



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    #5
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Doop wrote: »
    I would suggest sending him a letter/email telling him you have observed him entering the property without permission (and have evidence of same) and that the guards have been notified and will be in contact should this occur again. Should he want to inspect the property it needs to be in accordance with the lease.

    I presume you want to stay in the property and play out the lease which is why personally if it were me I would play a slightly soft approach as per the above. This way he knows the score...wont do it again...and you get to get on with living there short term. You kind of want to slightly keep him onside while embarrassing him also...? (I would suggest anyway)
    I'd say this is the best approach although I'd leave mention of the Gardai out of it for now. Just a polite and firm email/letter to state the lie of the land.


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    #6
    gibgodsman
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭gibgodsman


    I don't know how the above poster can suggest such a calm approach to something so serious

    Not only is he entering your home without your knowledge, he is quite clearly watching your movements in order to check when the best time to be creepy is.

    Every serial killer does the same thing....

    Go straight to the guards, the lease should be the least of your worries, the safety of your family should be your main worry.

    Also, he would have absolutely no chance of kicking you out as you look for legal action as he has in sense defecated on his own lease and you have protection from being evicted due to his own actions


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    #7
    DelBoy Trotter
    Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭DelBoy Trotter


    The above couple of posters seem to think you will be embarrassing the landlord by bringing it up. I have a feeling he won't be embarrassed and thinks he has every right to do what he is doing, and will dig his heels in when you mention this. I'd be going straight to the guards before contacting the landlord.

    Does he live close by? I'm wondering how he could know your routine, as it seems to be like he does. If he doesn't live close by and wouldn't be driving by to check if cars are there, I'd be wondering if there was a camera on the front door of the house


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    #8
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,164 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Is there a pattern in how often the LL visits the house? If there was a pattern, maybe you could leave the house with the dog as usual on the day your pretty sure he is going to visit, and your husband could be at home waiting for him. Catch him in the act.


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    #9
    D3V!L
    Registered Users Posts: 2,925 ✭✭✭D3V!L


    You can talk through the nest cams. Get your husband to watch the house through them when this guy is coming and tell him that the Gardai have been notified of the burglar in your house.


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    #10
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    I'm serious when I say the OP would have near complete and absolute immunity from eviction after what this landlord has been caught on video doing

    I'm not saying that the OP has plans of this kind but some people would stop paying rent after an outrageous stunt like this

    Landlord must be the stupidest man alive


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    #11
    eusap
    Registered Users Posts: 659 ✭✭✭eusap


    Change the door lock and when he calls to ask why its changed, turn it back and ask how he knows.

    You can explain the lock as being stuck and didn't want to bother him


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    #12
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    DelBoy Trotter wrote: »
    The above couple of posters seem to think you will be embarrassing the landlord by bringing it up. I have a feeling he won't be embarrassed and thinks he has every right to do what he is doing, and will dig his heels in when you mention this. I'd be going straight to the guards before contacting the landlord.

    Does he live close by? I'm wondering how he could know your routine, as it seems to be like he does. If he doesn't live close by and wouldn't be driving by to check if cars are there, I'd be wondering if there was a camera on the front door of the house
    Nuclear option leaves you no other choices and who knows what effect that might have. It's always better to resolve things as non-confrontationally as you can and to have a few more steps. Gardai would certainly be the next move after that.


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    #13
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    Doop wrote: »
    Also side note the gaurds will most likely fob you off with 'its a civil matter'

    It is a civil matter, and the guards have no function unless a criminal element arises, for instance the landlord entered in order to steal something. I would say contact the RTB for advice.


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    #14
    sodafountain
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭sodafountain


    Doop wrote: »
    I would suggest sending him a letter/email telling him you have observed him entering the property without permission (and have evidence of same) and that the guards have been notified and will be in contact should this occur again. Should he want to inspect the property it needs to be in accordance with the lease.

    I presume you want to stay in the property and play out the lease which is why personally if it were me I would play a slightly soft approach as per the above. This way he knows the score...wont do it again...and you get to get on with living there short term. You kind of want to slightly keep him onside while embarrassing him also...? (I would suggest anyway)

    Also side note the gaurds will most likely fob you off with 'its a civil matter'

    Yeah, I figured the Guards would most likely say it was a civil matter. Nothing is missing from the house or anything like that.

    You're right about wanting to keep him onside and wanting to play out the lease - our own house is currently stripped back to the blockwork so we have nowhere else to go. Also our kids are still in school, and it was a nightmare trying to find somewhere to rent within a reasonable driving distance to the school, that would take a dog.
    Salary Negotiator wrote: »
    If it was me I'd speak to him and tell him the time and dates he was in the house and that if it happens again you'll take things further. Dont mention the cameras.

    Read your lease as well and see if there are any break clauses that allow the landlord to evict during the fixed term and whether these apply to your current situation (though that is very unlikely).

    You could refer to the RTB who may take action against the landlord but up to you whether you want to go down that route initially.

    The break clauses are repeated instances of antisocial behaviour, or unacceptable damage to the property - neither of which would be applicable here. That being said, I personally know several people whose landlord just broke the lease and basically said "if you don't like it, tough."

    I'm kinda reluctant to get the RTB involved for the same reason that I don't want to go to the Guards; it would most likely put us on bad terms with him. Our lease isn't up until the end of June, so he could still make things unpleasant for us in the time we have left here.
    tommythecat wrote: »
    I would do all of this except mentioning the guards. That will just get confrontational. The embarrassment of being caught on camera should be enough to put an end to his visits. If he is defensive etc then you can bring the guards up.

    The most recent time was yesterday, and I got a notification from the app on my phone so I could actually see him on the app, wandering around the house. Part of me wanted to ring him and ask him what he was doing there, and watch his reaction on camera :pac:
    is_that_so wrote: »
    I'd say this is the best approach although I'd leave mention of the Gardai out of it for now. Just a polite and firm email/letter to state the lie of the land.

    My husband is now suggesting getting our solicitor to send him a letter (instead of going to the Gardai) but I think that might be a bit full on, also.

    Having read the replies here, I was thinking of sending an email saying basically I've observed him entering the property on x dates and times. Neither I nor my husband gave permission for this, and there was not an emergency that necessitated him accessing the property without notifying us. *Quote relevant bit of lease regarding peaceful enjoyment of the property and him having to give us notice before entering* We have no objections to him inspecting the property, however it must be done at a mutually agreed time, when we are present in the house.

    Or would I be better sending a registered letter to him? I don't want to come on to hard, but by the same token I want him to know it's definitely not ok to continue doing what he's doing. It's trying to strike the balance of being firm but not aggressive.


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    #15
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Do you think the gardai will have eny interest in this let alone entertain it or do anything?

    You'll be laughed out of the garda station once the door is closed behind you.

    You have to handle this yourself.


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    #16
    gibgodsman
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭gibgodsman


    sodafountain wrote: »
    Yeah, I figured the Guards would most likely say it was a civil matter. Nothing is missing from the house or anything like that.

    You're right about wanting to keep him onside and wanting to play out the lease - our own house is currently stripped back to the blockwork so we have nowhere else to go. Also our kids are still in school, and it was a nightmare trying to find somewhere to rent within a reasonable driving distance to the school, that would take a dog.



    The break clauses are repeated instances of antisocial behaviour, or unacceptable damage to the property - neither of which would be applicable here. That being said, I personally know several people whose landlord just broke the lease and basically said "if you don't like it, tough."

    I'm kinda reluctant to get the RTB involved for the same reason that I don't want to go to the Guards; it would most likely put us on bad terms with him. Our lease isn't up until the end of June, so he could still make things unpleasant for us in the time we have left here.



    The most recent time was yesterday, and I got a notification from the app on my phone so I could actually see him on the app, wandering around the house. Part of me wanted to ring him and ask him what he was doing there, and watch his reaction on camera :pac:



    My husband is now suggesting getting our solicitor to send him a letter (instead of going to the Gardai) but I think that might be a bit full on, also.

    Having read the replies here, I was thinking of sending an email saying basically I've observed him entering the property on x dates and times. Neither I nor my husband gave permission for this, and there was not an emergency that necessitated him accessing the property without notifying us. *Quote relevant bit of lease regarding peaceful enjoyment of the property and him having to give us notice before entering* We have no objections to him inspecting the property, however it must be done at a mutually agreed time, when we are present in the house.

    Or would I be better sending a registered letter to him? I don't want to come on to hard, but by the same token I want him to know it's definitely not ok to continue doing what he's doing. It's trying to strike the balance of being firm but not aggressive.

    In my honest opinion you are handling this way way way too calmly, I think "he could still make things unpleasant for us" is past since he is literally already doing it. Go to the RTB, it doesn't have to be full on, ask their advise, also ask a solicitor


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    #17
    Doop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭Doop


    sodafountain wrote: »
    ...
    You're right about wanting to keep him onside and wanting to play out the lease - our own house is currently stripped back to the blockwork so we have nowhere else to go. Also our kids are still in school, and it was a nightmare trying to find somewhere to rent within a reasonable driving distance to the school, that would take a dog.

    To be honest I think you are spot on with that up to you re registered letter...maybe would add weight to the situation.

    Going to war with him as suggested by other posters is a fair response but the stress would not be worth it (IMO), this way you will be able to get on with it and move to your new/renovated place in the summer (which im sure has involved enough stress as is up to this point!)


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    #18
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    sodafountain wrote: »
    Yeah, I figured the Guards would most likely say it was a civil matter. Nothing is missing from the house or anything like that.

    You're right about wanting to keep him onside and wanting to play out the lease - our own house is currently stripped back to the blockwork so we have nowhere else to go. Also our kids are still in school, and it was a nightmare trying to find somewhere to rent within a reasonable driving distance to the school, that would take a dog.



    The break clauses are repeated instances of antisocial behaviour, or unacceptable damage to the property - neither of which would be applicable here. That being said, I personally know several people whose landlord just broke the lease and basically said "if you don't like it, tough."

    I'm kinda reluctant to get the RTB involved for the same reason that I don't want to go to the Guards; it would most likely put us on bad terms with him. Our lease isn't up until the end of June, so he could still make things unpleasant for us in the time we have left here.



    The most recent time was yesterday, and I got a notification from the app on my phone so I could actually see him on the app, wandering around the house. Part of me wanted to ring him and ask him what he was doing there, and watch his reaction on camera :pac:



    My husband is now suggesting getting our solicitor to send him a letter (instead of going to the Gardai) but I think that might be a bit full on, also.

    Having read the replies here, I was thinking of sending an email saying basically I've observed him entering the property on x dates and times. Neither I nor my husband gave permission for this, and there was not an emergency that necessitated him accessing the property without notifying us. *Quote relevant bit of lease regarding peaceful enjoyment of the property and him having to give us notice before entering* We have no objections to him inspecting the property, however it must be done at a mutually agreed time, when we are present in the house.

    Or would I be better sending a registered letter to him? I don't want to come on to hard, but by the same token I want him to know it's definitely not ok to continue doing what he's doing. It's trying to strike the balance of being firm but not aggressive.
    I'd opt for the email if it were me as it is a little less impersonal and confrontational than the solicitor. Maybe work on the email together to set the tone of the conversation? You'd still have the solicitor option available to you after that.


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    #19
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Speaking from a ll point of view. This ll actions are inexcusable - he should not be entering your place at all full stop when your not there without your express permission.

    Iv seen some snowflakes complain about not liking people look at their home during viewings when they are also in the house but a ll going into your house when you are not there is very extreme.

    I would not be happy with this at all, you could have expensive items on view. More personal items in view and he can look at anything he wants without your knowledge.

    You
    Have your own home so this is a temporary move so you have less risk as your end game will be to move back into your own home. This ll will not feel embarrassed, I usually don’t say this but this person needs to thought to respect people’s private spaces. This is a confrontational approach but I would call him first and mention you think someone has been in the house to gauge his reaction. Then tell him you know it was him. See what he says. Irregardless of what he says, I would still report him to rtb and lodge a case against him.

    I know some people are fearful of repercussions however a breach of privacy of this nature boils me and he will continue to do this after your gone unless someone nips this in the bud.

    Again, I’m a ll and a lot of topics I see being posted here are anti ll or not practical etc but even common sense here would tell a person, don’t enter a persons home unless you talk to them first.


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    #20
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    More than slightly passive aggressive, but while you're thinking about the approach you want to take, you could print a copy of the lease, highlight the bit about when the landlord can enter, and tape it on the inside of the front door, with dates and times he's entered written beside it, and see if he takes the hint. Make sure the tape doesn't do any damage though!

    E.g.
    15/11/19 10:05 - 10:16
    18/11/19 09:53 - 10:32

    To be honest, I would notify the gardaí on the basis that he's obviously taken the time to learn your routine, which is creepy AF. Drop in to your nearest station, have a chat, explain that you'll deal with the unauthorised entry through the RTB/your solicitor if it comes to it, but that what you're reporting to them is the stalking aspect, given that he's taken the trouble to learn your routine. Tell them you'd like to have a record of the complaint in case it goes any further. Get the name of the guard you speak to, and keep a note of it along with time and date.


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    #21
    DelBoy Trotter
    Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭DelBoy Trotter


    Agree with the above from Fol20. I really can't understand how calm the OP and some posters are being about this. The LL looks to be watching/recording the house and entering for a snoop whenever they want. The LL has royally ****ed up here, ending the tenancy will not be an option for them so I can't see why the softly softly approach is being taken


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    #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    STB. wrote: »
    You need to change the lock on the front door immediately. Keep the old one.

    No way is this acceptable.

    It isn't acceptable, but neither is changing the locks without permission. That's a good way to put the ball back in his court and give him a valid reason to evict.

    You have two options here, OP. ?You can either confront him about it, or not. If you don't confront him then it WILL keep happening. God only knows what he's doing out of sight of the cameras so, for me, that would not be an option.

    So, the only real option is to confront him. You could play dumb and just say it to him in an "I think you should be aware, someone has been inside the apartment so I got a security camera to bring to the guards" kinda way. Personally, there's no way I'd be going down that route though.

    I'd phone him (record it!) telling him you checked the security footage and have evidence of him snooping around while you're there. I'd put the frighteners on him to say that any further instances will be brought to the Gardas you've no idea what his motives are and someone who snoops around kids bedrooms belongs on the sex offender's register.


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    #23
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    DelBoy Trotter wrote: »
    Agree with the above from Fol20. I really can't understand how calm the OP and some posters are being about this. The LL looks to be watching/recording the house and entering for a snoop whenever they want. The LL has royally ****ed up here, ending the tenancy will not be an option for them so I can't see why the softly softly approach is being taken

    I suppose we're trying to be rational, not necessarily calm. My younger self would have gone for the landlord baldheaded if I was in that situation - I'd have been around screaming at him, which wouldn't help in the slightest. As I get older I appreciate the wisdom of gathering your thoughts and having a definite plan of action before approaching someone. Steps such as notifying the gardaí first, having a log of all unauthorised entries, etc.

    I'm not even involved and my blood is boiling on the OPs behalf, but threatening the landlord without having your ducks in a row won't help.


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    #24
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,592 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Download an app called "Alfred". Install on and old phone and your current phone and catch him in the act before you confront him. At least then you have proof.


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    #25
    GBX
    Registered Users Posts: 11,933 ✭✭✭✭GBX


    The Nal wrote: »
    Download an app called "Alfred". Install on and old phone and your current phone and catch him in the act before you confront him. At least then you have proof.

    They have a Nest cam which provides this already.


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    #26
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,592 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    GBX wrote: »
    They have a Nest cam which provides this already.

    Even better. But yeah, get some concrete proof before and then confront him about it.


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    #27
    gibgodsman
    Registered Users Posts: 564 ✭✭✭gibgodsman


    The Nal wrote: »
    Even better. But yeah, get some concrete proof before and then confront him about it.

    I feel you came in without reading anything? They have the concrete proof, from their nest cams, mentioned in the OP....


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    #28
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,592 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    gibgodsman wrote: »
    I feel you came in without reading anything? They have the concrete proof, from their nest cams, mentioned in the OP....

    Thats exactly what I did yes. I stopped reading after you started mentioning serial killers.

    So, whats the issue? Call the landlord and confront him on it.


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    #29
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    gibgodsman wrote: »
    ...Every serial killer does the same thing....
    Thoie wrote: »
    ... stalking aspect...
    Deleted User wrote: »
    ... the sex offender's register.

    Ah here.


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    #30
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    El Weirdo wrote: »
    Ah here.
    They are extreme examples but at the same time the Op has the LL on camera entering the property three times. The LL entered the property a number of times before this which was what made the OP get the cameras.
    Why is the LL wandering around the property that frequently? It's a bit Robin Williams in One Hour Photo!


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    #31
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    STB. wrote: »
    You need to change the lock on the front door immediately. Keep the old one.

    No way is this acceptable.

    Changing the locks is also unacceptable and could lead to the op being evicted. The op is fully in the right here so no need to muddy the waters.

    I have no idea why people are suggesting going to the guards, it’s nothing to do with them. The fact he owns the property does not change because it’s rented out and while he can’t enter from a tenancy law perspective that is a civil matter, he is not committing any offence as far as the guards are concerned.

    Contacting him and informing him that he is entering the property without permission and you have evidence of it should be enough to put a quick stop to this.


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