Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

political analyst wrote: »

How can rape not be a sexually-motivated crime? Obviously, the perpetrator wants to fulfill his sexual desire and so forces the victim to give him satisfaction. For example, in Austria, an Iraqi man raped a boy at a swimming-pool complex because he had a 'sexual emergency'.



You seem to think that a sexually-motivated sex crime is an oxymoron.

I think there's some confusion here (not you BTW). People objecting to traditional views that were often victim blaming, that rape was the woman's fault for somehow leading the man on, for being too sexily attired, or even that she "wanted it really" have made the point that rape is "not about sex" in that it is not committed because of anything the woman does, and is not so much about her sexual attractiveness as about the rapist wanting to frighten and hurt her. Or in some cases, hurt any woman at all.

But that doesn't mean that rape is not a sexual assault. Of course it is. Rape of a woman by a man is of course related to her gender, just as rape of a man by another man is homosexual rape. Doesn't make either assault any less awful for the victim, but let's not pretend it's all gender neutral. The attacker was looking for a victim of the gender that they wanted to rape and hurt, because that's what excites the attacker. But not the victim, is the point. And that is what some posters here seem to have missed or conflated.

political analyst wrote: »

How can rape not be a sexually-motivated crime? Obviously, the perpetrator wants to fulfill his sexual desire and so forces the victim to give him satisfaction. For example, in Austria, an Iraqi man raped a boy at a swimming-pool complex because he had a 'sexual emergency'.

You seem to think that a sexually-motivated sex crime is an oxymoron.

When the motivation for committing rape isn’t sexual. There are an infinite amount of motives from humiliation and degradation to contempt and what is known as ‘corrective rape’. The idea that the motivation for rape or sexual assault is motivated by sexual desire is only one motivating factor.

It doesn’t for example explain circumstances where male inmates or male soldiers are often the victims of rape, committed against them by other men, or young boys and girls who are the victims of rape and sexual assault.

You’re putting the cart before the horse in assuming that the motivation for rape could only ever be sexual, when in reality the circumstances are far more complex and can’t be explained by a limited and frankly simplistic explanation for the reasons why men commit rape and sexual assault. It’s absolutely true to say that the vast majority of perpetrators of rape are male, and that’s due to how the nature of the act is defined. I wouldn’t be so certain as to assume the majority of victims of rape are female, nor would I be so certain as to assume the majority of perpetrators of sexual assault, or the victims of sexual assault, are of one gender or the other.

What happened in this particular case though was murder, and when examining the circumstances of this particular case, it’s silly IMO to be trying to use this case to make a commentary on wider society from any particular perspective.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The only confusion for me is why you’re suggesting that rape of a woman by a man is of course related to her gender, when I know that’s not true, nor is it true that rape of a man by another man is ‘homosexual rape’ (gay men must be vastly over-represented among the male prison population if that were the case), and I don’t think anyone was pretending anything was gender neutral.

I’m not missing or conflating anything when I suggest that in this particular case, we simply don’t know what the attackers motivations were. From the time when they were able to coerce Ana to go with them (and perhaps long before that, as by all accounts their actions were premeditated), to the time when they were convicted of her murder, they have displayed nothing but contempt for anyone who has had any interactions with them in any capacity. They have shown a propensity for lying and thinking they were able to outsmart everyone. Ultimately their primary motivation appears to have been to avoid being caught for their vile behaviour. That’s about as much of their motivation we know for certain at least. Whatever other motives they had or whatever motivated them to carry out the acts they did, are really anyone’s guess.

Does the evidence not suggest/indicate that the motivation was the acting out of some vile fantasy they (or at least fiend A) had derived from an obsession with porn.....they developed a desire to ‘act out’ what they had become so totally de-sentasised to.......Ana was the obvious target, easily led and in their view nobody would miss her.......the description of Ana during B’s interviews confirms this, A’s views were obviously the same.

Late watcher of the documentary, sorry!

I thought an interesting moment in the documentary was the (presumably informed) opinion put forward that people who are predisposed to violence (however hidden that predisposition may be) are likely to seek out violent porn whereas people who are not tend to avoid it and look at more mainstream sources. This goes against the argument that violent porn is the causation of the desire in a young person to engage in a violent sexual scenario, but rather suggests that violent porn is one of the interests pursued by that type of mind. That is not to say it doesn't desensitize and contribute often to the type of scenario the offender ultimately creates and acts upon. I started to look for sources to back up the journilst's opinion but unfortunately I can't wade through such disturbing content.

I suppose the reason I honed in on this is that I intensely dislike the narrative that most young boys are watching if not violent porn, porn that results in aggressive first sexual experiences for girls. Those pushing that agenda are also deaf to the fact that it is not only young boys that watch porn, but girls also.

Should we be concerned about their exposure to porn? Yes! Of course! Should we be hypercritical of young boys in this way? No. Sort out policy on the issue and be fairer. Teenage lust and love is hard enough to navigate as it is.

As I haven't posted on the thread much and probably won't again I just wanted to add that it should always come back to Ana. I think her community, Dublin and Ireland lost a really wonderful person who was possibly going to do something wildly creative with her life and would have contributed so much to her community and country. It is utterly heartbreaking and it would do no soul good to dwell too long on how her life ended. Her poor, poor family.

Ana Kriegel: Tragic Leixlip girl's teen killers Boy A and B blame each other for being locked up

“Boy A blames Boy B for revealing details of the crime to gardai while Boy B blames Boy A for getting him caught up in the murder to begin with.

“They have to spend the next few years at the detention centre together and will most likely be in some of the same classes too.

"When they turn 18 and are transferred to an adult prison they will most likely have to be segregated away from other inmates due to the nature of their crime too.

"So regardless, the next few years of avoiding each other is going to be tough.”

According to same source, when they move to adult prison in a few years they will most likely have their own Liaison Officer to help them adjust. Most likely they will be sent to Wheatfield Prison.


https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/ana-kriegel-murderers-blame-eachother-17307248?utm_source=dublin_live_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=EM_DublinLive_Nletter_News_smallteaser_Text_Story2&utm_campaign=daily_newsletter

Vicarious Function wrote: »

Ana Kriegel: Tragic Leixlip girl's teen killers Boy A and B blame each other for being locked up

At least that might make both of them think very hard about whether they might have more to lose than gain by appealing their sentences. If they blame each other the chances of one further incriminating the other if it came to an appeal must be something to consider.

political analyst wrote: »

Why did gardaí not stop Boy B from sullying Ana's memory? If they had stopped him from saying what he said then Ana's parents wouldn't have heard it in court.

Thankfully they didn't, they had little or nothing on him evidence wise, so it was his talking that walked him straight into a guilty verdict.

There was nothing nice about any aspect of Ana's tragic loss, let's at least take some little comfort in the fact that the perpetrators were caught and dealt with.

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Jamie Bulger killers what a waste of time trying to cure or reinstate them in life , just continued out of control !
Animal a and b will be little different !
god help the poor women they meet or marry later in life , may god have mercy on there souls !

*James* Bulger.

tuxy wrote: »

Yes his name was James.

What has Robert Thompson done wrong since his release?

From what I have read on it. Only one of them is still a headcase. Now maybe the other one is the smarter psychopath, I don't know.

But there is always one Alpha leading on some fool. Who is who in this case. Only years from now will we know. Imo