Management charges query

Hannibal_Smith · 13-11-2019 9:42pm

Dav010 wrote: »

But its a legal requirement that an OMC be set up in a multi unit development, irrespective of whether it has been taken in charge, to deal with those issues such as collecting annual service fees which the op is asking about. It is literally in the MUD Act.

The OP is in a managed estate with service fees, an AGM and the op is considering being a Director of the OMC, what exactly are you saying cannot be done in the OP's OMC and any other where the roads have not been taken over by the Council?

OK look. I can't keep repeating it. I've set it all out in previous posts and I doubt this is helping the OP. But I still hold its an unusual set up and one I haven't come across before. I'll leave it at that.

Dav010 · 13-11-2019 9:44pm

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

OK look. I can't keep repeating it. I've set it all out in previous posts and I doubt this is helping the OP. But I still hold its an unusual set up and one I haven't come across before. I'll leave it at that.

Despite the fact that it’s a legal requirement?

Dolbhad · 13-11-2019 9:45pm

With a new build estate, yes an indemnity is given by the builder but I find that it’s not worth the paper it’s written on because once the site was done - builder was gone. Residents would set up an association informally to deal with them maintenance. A builder would rather management company and pass it all over to them. I would always stir clear of a management company if I am buying a house.

However it seems that a lot more of the recent planning permissions have required a management company be set up esp if it’s related to water services or areas that need to be insured in Cork. If I was OP I would be checking the planning for the house to see if was a requirement.

Sometimes there is no choice in the matter. However 5/6 years is very optimistic to have the roads and services taken over. I’d expect it to be at least twice that. A lot of estates in Cork built around 2000/2001 still not in charge.

Eventually everything gets sold and management fees get paid. However lesson from the recession was management fees were the first not to be paid and there was never a sinking fund so if any big expenses came up, it resulted in fees going up.

Hannibal_Smith · 13-11-2019 9:45pm

Gah! Stop editing after the event

You're misunderstanding the act.

I'm not wrong. I have sold plenty of
Properties and bought more, since the act came in and am perfectly aware of when it applies.

My previous replies set it all out.

dancingqueen · 14-11-2019 11:04am

Dav010 wrote: »

It may be a condition, but cash buyers may not be too concerned about it. A lien means that you have a legally binding hold over the property until the unpaid fees are settled.

In my experience ( I work in a developers/management agent) when properties are sold, the SVC must be paid before we provide documents to the buyers solicitors.

dancingqueen · 14-11-2019 11:06am

Dav010 wrote: »

Every MC has its own rules about giving info, and if a cash buyer is willing to buy and take on the MC debt, I doubt there is anything to stop them.

Many builders went bust before developments were finished or wound up their companies shortly after. There is nothing to stop a MC being set up before it is taken into charge nor indeed getting insurance.

I've never heard of a buyer (cash or otherwise) taking on previous debt knowingly. If they inherit it, and they weren't aware, it shows that they have a dodgy solicitor and they are then open to legal action because they won't want to pay it. There is no logic in that.

A judgement mortgage (I think this is what you mean by lien) doesn't do much if the property is not sold.

Dav010 · 14-11-2019 2:02pm

dancingqueen wrote: »

I've never heard of a buyer (cash or otherwise) taking on previous debt knowingly. If they inherit it, and they weren't aware, it shows that they have a dodgy solicitor and they are then open to legal action because they won't want to pay it. There is no logic in that.

A judgement mortgage (I think this is what you mean by lien) doesn't do much if the property is not sold.

What a strange thread, two posters who never heard of something automatically assume it cannot be possible, one of which is actually a legal requirement.

The buyer was informed, the previous owner’s business folded and the new buyer bought at a significant discount on market price, he has no problem paying the outstanding fees after purchase. You don’t see the logic of getting a property at a huge discount by agreeing to pay the outstanding fees after purchase?

A lien means the owner cannot transfer the title until outstanding fees are paid. It was decided a few years ago at an AGM that this would be the best way going forward to ensure fees were paid.

To the poster who is unhappy about editing/adding to posts, my apologies, I often haven’t the time to post full responses and sometimes have to go back and add to them.

dancingqueen · 14-11-2019 6:41pm

Dav010 wrote: »

What a strange thread, two posters who never heard of something automatically assume it cannot be possible, one of which is actually a legal requirement.

The buyer was informed, the previous owner’s business folded and the new buyer bought at a significant discount on market price, he has no problem paying the outstanding fees after purchase. You don’t see the logic of getting a property at a huge discount by agreeing to pay the outstanding fees after purchase?

A lien means the owner cannot transfer the title until outstanding fees are paid. It was decided a few years ago at an AGM that this would be the best way going forward to ensure fees were paid.

To the poster who is unhappy about editing/adding to posts, my apologies, I often haven’t the time to post full responses and sometimes have to go back and add to them.

That is a different kettle of fish though, and you weren't specific previously. It is a highly unlikely scenario however and just because you experienced it one time doesn't make it a regular occurrence.

I do know what a lien means, cheers for the legal lesson. It only becomes a lien after a judgment is applied.

Dav010 · 14-11-2019 7:13pm

dancingqueen wrote: »

That is a different kettle of fish though, and you weren't specific previously. It is a highly unlikely scenario however and just because you experienced it one time doesn't make it a regular occurrence.

I do know what a lien means, cheers for the legal lesson. It only becomes a lien after a judgment is applied.

Your observation was that a property would not be sold/bought without all fees being settled, it can, the buyer can instruct his/her solicitor to proceed with the purchase without that confirmation. It was not by agreement with the OMC, the new owner contacted us and said he would pay the outstanding fees. Though most buyers would not go about it this way, and I did not say it was a regular occurrence, there was nothing legally preventing the sale proceeding and the new owner agreeing with the seller to pay outstanding fees.

We did not have a lien on this property at the time.

I really don't get what your argument is, just because something is not regular or typical does not mean it cannot be done. You've never heard of the buyer taking on the fees debt, I have, no big issue there.

April 73 · 14-11-2019 9:13pm

I was a director of an OMC in circumstances similar to the OPs. The OMC was a planning stipulation as the County Council in question don’t look after the grounds of private estates but (hopefully) eventually take roads, lights, sewers in charge. It sounds similar - the OMC will still be needed even when the council takes charge as otherwise landscaping won’t be maintained.

To the OP - owners not paying fees is the biggest head-wrecker of any OMC. There is an element of “doing the right thing” involved if you want your estate to be maintained. People who don’t pay benefit from others doing the right thing. In my experience outstanding debt was always eventually collected when houses sold, if not when solicitors letters were sent. The big difficulty arises when too many put paying on the long finger - then cash flow & paying for ongoing maintenance is a nightmare. So you may resent it but if you refuse to pay until x,y,z conditions are fulfilled then you add to the OMC problems.

To anyone who thinks there is nothing to being a director of an OMC - being a director means you have legal obligations to the OMC and members. You become a target for disgruntled residents for any weird and strange gripe they have. I speak from experience when I say that people think that you are the equivalent of the tax man and resent you for volunteering to do something that ultimately benefits everybody in an estate and protects the value of their property. I received an email one Christmas Eve calling me a dishonest thief over the yearly fee of €120. That’s just one example - I don’t want to give other examples as I don’t have fond memories of the time. In fact being a director of the OMC was one reason I actually moved as I found I couldn’t stomach looking at people who pleaded inability to pay €120 a year, that I regularly saw in local restaurants, hairdressers & pubs. I also had become the go-to person for every problem in the estate from parking disputes to neighbours falling out over building works or kids acting up. I look back and am proud of how we took on the OMC from the builder, upgraded landscaping & ran a financially viable OMC - though it sadly opened my eyes to human nature when it comes to money. Not an experience I would repeat!!!

Apartment Owners Network · 21-11-2019 10:46am

The Housing Agency is hosting regional Information Evenings for owners' management company directors.

Details on their website housingagency.ie

Management charges query

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