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Weekends boxing 02/11 Taylor v Linardatou, Canelo vs Kovalev

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    #182
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    It’s sad to see such a fearsome operator turn so apologetic. He's well softened up now and I think that should be that. Canelo deserves credit for what he did but is anyone surprised he won?

    I am not surprised he won, but I am a little surprised at how scared and timid Kovalev fight....he was tip tapping the whole night,. Very odd showing...

    Lot of talk of a con on! Not at all far fetched IMO.


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    #183
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    walshb wrote: »
    I am not surprised he won, but I am a little surprised at how scared and timid Kovalev fight....he was tip tapping the whole night,. Very odd showing...

    Lot of talk of a con on! Not at all far fetched IMO.

    Funny I considered putting that in my post but felt the backlash would be deafening! Doesn’t usually stop me! Good chance. He never looked at all interested in hurting Canelo.


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    #184
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    Funny I considered putting that in my post but felt the backlash would be deafening! Doesn’t usually stop me! Good chance. He never looked at all interested in hurting Canelo.

    Don't mind the backlash from some of these blow ins....and regulars!:P

    Need a bit more robust debate and saying it as it is....respectfully, of course!


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    #185
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,929 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    The knockout looked legit enough but I have to say the scorecards looked like the fix was on in any case.

    One of the judges gave Canelo the first 2 rounds and had him 6-1 up after 7.


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    #186
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    normanoffside wrote: »
    The knockout looked legit enough but I have to say the scorecards looked like the fix was on in any case.

    One of the judges gave Canelo the first 2 rounds and had him 6-1 up after 7.

    Hmmm

    I need to watch the first shot that caused Kovalev to be so disoriented; the left hook that barely connected, right before the right hand finish....

    Anyway, the con is more to do with Kovalev's very timid display from first bell to KO...

    And what was with the jab jab and then huddling up close to Canelo to swarm him? Looked odd.


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    #187
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,929 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    walshb wrote: »
    Hmmm

    I need to watch the first shot that caused Kovalev to be so disoriented; the left hook that barely connected, right before the right hand finish....

    Anyway, the con is more to do with Kovalev's very timid display from first bell to KO...

    And what was with the jab jab and then huddling up close to Canelo to swarm him? Looked odd.

    He’d already badly stumbled before the finishing blows. The commentators didn’t pick it up but Canelo was going in for the kill in the final attack.

    I think Kov knew all night that a good dig was gonna hurt him hence is avoidance tactics.

    The Yarde fight would have told him his resistance is shot.


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    #188
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,849 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Kovalev's left leg goes after the first right hand then Canelo takes him out with two more perfect shots. Zero chance that KO is anything but completely legit.

    Kovalev fought like the fragile fighter he has become. Don't get the people screaming fix at all.

    https://twitter.com/BoxingNewsED/status/1191445837613801472?s=20


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    #189
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Yes, but even by his own deteriorating fragile standards, this was at a new level.

    Even the Yarde fight he was far better in terms of actual spite on his punches.

    Just a very odd timid display from him...

    Ridiculously unimpressive....

    And here is the thing....he was actually still winning the fight....wtf does that say for Canelo...


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    #190
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,929 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    walshb wrote: »
    And here is the thing....he was actually still winning the fight....

    He wasn't (on the official cards)


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    #191
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    normanoffside wrote: »
    He wasn't (on the official cards)

    Yes. True. I meant on my card, and on a lot of other cards...


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    #192
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,849 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    walshb wrote: »
    Yes, but even by his own deteriorating fragile standards, this was at a new level.

    Even the Yarde fight he was far better in terms of actual spite on his punches.

    Just a very odd timid display from him...

    Ridiculously unimpressive....

    And here is the thing....he was actually still winning the fight....wtf does that say for Canelo...

    Thought the gameplan was actually quite smart. You can't walk right up to Canelo and give up your advantages which is what a counter puncher like Canelo wants. Kovalev made it tricky for Canelo to land the shots he wanted to, just didn't have the gas in the end to fully execute. If Kovalev had gone steaming in on the offensive from the start he'd have been taken out much earlier imo.


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    #193
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Morrison J wrote: »
    Thought the gameplan was actually quite smart. You can't walk right up to Canelo and give up your advantages which is what a counter puncher like Canelo wants. Kovalev made it tricky for Canelo to land the shots he wanted to, just didn't have the gas in the end to fully execute. If Kovalev had gone steaming in on the offensive from the start he'd have been taken out much earlier imo.

    But what about his shots seeming to be devoid of any power and zip...

    Tip tap all night.....No need to steam in, just commit hard to the shots you throw..

    Just so far removed from the prime Krusher...

    Even considering him being past it, why such tame and weak offensive commitment...maybe I am being too harsh, but that is what it looked like to me..


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    #194
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    walshb wrote: »
    Don't mind the backlash from some of these blow ins....and regulars!:P

    Need a bit more robust debate and saying it as it is....respectfully, of course!

    Haha you’re dead right! I’m not normally too backward


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    #195
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,849 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    walshb wrote: »
    But what about his shots seeming to be devoid of any power and zip...

    Tip tap all night.....

    Just so far removed from the prime Krusher...

    Even considering him being past it, why such tame and weak offensive commitment...maybe I am being too harsh, but that is what it looked like to me..
    Would assume he was boxing to instructions from McGirt. Probably a mix of trying to retain as much energy as possible for the latter rounds, and not wanting to overextend himself so Canelo can counter.

    Prime Kovalev wouldn't have dreamed of fighting that way I agree but he's changed since then. Has definitely lost some speed and lost his ability to take a shot. Not ideal going into a fight with the best counter puncher in the sport.


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    #196
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Kov is absolutely shot and it was obvious after the Yarde fight. Right away he called Yarde the future of the division (not himself) and had the cap out for Canelo. He was so thankful all along. Pathetic. He should have been telling Canelo he was going to show him what LHW power is.


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    #197
    megadodge
    Registered Users Posts: 5,289 ✭✭✭megadodge


    Morrison J wrote: »
    Thought the gameplan was actually quite smart. You can't walk right up to Canelo and give up your advantages which is what a counter puncher like Canelo wants. Kovalev made it tricky for Canelo to land the shots he wanted to, just didn't have the gas in the end to fully execute. If Kovalev had gone steaming in on the offensive from the start he'd have been taken out much earlier imo.

    Stop making sensible points, don't you know it kills 'robust debate'!


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    #198
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I don't think it at all sensible for Kovalev to tip tap all night against Canelo. Nobody said walk right up to him,. Kovalev is taller, bigger, rangier. He could have tried throwing spiteful shots from mid and longer range...

    The tip tap shots he was throwing were hitting targets. His issue was that they had nothing on them...

    Had I been his coach I would have been imploring him to start throwing shots with a lot more meat on them...at least to try and hurt his opponent. It is boxing, after all...and it's quite possible that he could have badly hurt, even knocked out Canelo......yes, Canelo has a good chin, but.

    Kovalev, to me, and to many others seemed to be very content to just tip tap his way through the fight; fighting far too respectful of his opponent.

    Is he really that shot, as regards how he delivers the tools of his art? You know the saying....the last thing to go is the power......well, when you aren't even trying to get torque on your shots, then you aren't really trying...

    We all agree he is not the same fighter from years gone by, but Saturday night he seemed to fight at half power. I don't think him being past it fully explains this...

    The only explanation is that he was petrified to commit too much......that or he deliberately decided to "hold" back.

    Being past it in terms of overall speed, stamina, ability to take a shot etc is one thing. But where is the evidence that suddenly Kovalev's punches decided to become powder puff? Even V Yarde it looked like he had a deal more meat on his shots.

    Anyway, to assess both: Canleo was far from impressive himself....


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    #199
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    walshb wrote: »

    The only explanation is that he was petrified to commit too much......that or he deliberately decided to "hold" back.

    ..

    You only have to look back at his fights when he was in his prime to see this. Kovalev knows his punch resistance is shot, that is why he was afraid to engage at all. A peak Kovalev would have not feared being countered. He also would not have let a smaller man bully him.

    Canelo and his team would not have been so eager to fight Kovalev at his peak, because Canelo, even though he has a good chin, would likely have been badly hurt or stopped.

    Canelo is a good fighter, but not yet a great one in my opinion. Let's see if he can take on and beat a light-heavyweight in his prime


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    #200
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    But he still could have committed power punches from mid to long range. He never did this...


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    #201
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Canelo reminds me of mayweather he picks fighters when they’re on the decline but when their name is still respected. I think Smith takes him


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    #202
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    Canelo reminds me of mayweather he picks fighters when they’re on the decline but when their name is still respected. I think Smith takes him

    Until Smith shows me more, I would take Canelo...

    Smith shows a very solid beard? then he has a chance..

    Smith has fought nobody...


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    #203
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    squinn2912 wrote: »
    Canelo reminds me of mayweather he picks fighters when they’re on the decline but when their name is still respected. I think Smith takes him

    So that's what he learnt after his defeat to Floyd. I agree he can't be considered great till he beats a fighter in his prime who is a genuine threat to him. Let's see how he fares against Beterbiev or Bivol.


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    #204
    nacho libre
    Registered Users Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    walshb wrote: »
    But he still could have committed power punches from mid to long range. He never did this...

    His confidence is gone that's why. I think he is only looking for pay days now rather than having a genuine belief he can win. That's why we saw him just content to keep Canelo away from him. In his prime he backed fighters up , but he was on the back foot against Canelo, because he knows his punch resistance is gone. As Ricky Hatton said a fighter is the first to know he is past it, but the last person to admit it. Hopefully Kovalev can admit it and call it quits.


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    #205
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,929 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    nacho libre wrote: »
    So that's what he learnt after his defeat to Floyd. I agree he can't be considered great till he beats a fighter in his prime who is a genuine threat to him. Let's see how he fares against Beterbiev or Bivol.

    I doubt you'll be seeing Beterbiev anyway.


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    #206
    selectamatic
    Registered Users Posts: 3,893 ✭✭✭selectamatic


    I'd be shocked if he took on Bivol either.

    Canelo is good but personally I just can't warm to him. He's a very poor "face of boxing" imo.

    Question marks over doping and consistently receiving favourable score cards would be my main gripe.

    A section of the American media absolutely love him though as do a large swathe of boxing fans so perhaps I'm missing something.


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    #207
    squinn2912
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Surely he’d be better off at SMW? For himself.

    Smith needs to prove himself yet he made very light work of Groves who was washed up

    Hard to know where Canelo goes next but I expect a very soft touch


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    #208
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    normanoffside wrote: »
    I doubt you'll be seeing Beterbiev anyway.

    I must be D only one who thinks Canelo can do a number on Beterbiev. Far too clinical and clean...


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    #209
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 11,933 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    I'd have Canelo beating Bivol. I think Beterbiev and Smith are too dangerous so he won't fight them.

    My guess would be one of Golovkin, Munguia or Saunders.


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    #210
    Deiseboy01
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭Deiseboy01


    titan18 wrote: »
    I'd have Canelo beating Bivol. I think Beterbiev and Smith are too dangerous so he won't fight them.

    My guess would be one of Golovkin, Munguia or Saunders.

    I think BJS is a much harder fight than Smith for him. BJS is tricky, won't hang around and trade with him. Can win ugly, Smith is pretty straightforward. He's never been in a fight backing up either and I expect Canelo pressures him and backs him up and wins pretty easy.


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    #211
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,617 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Yes, stylistically BJS presents more issues. Mover, boxer, spoiler and awkward...

    Smith is quite methodical, predictable, stationery and “basic.” Canelo has a great chin, but more importantly, a very natural and underrated defense..he knows how not to get hit, and can absorb and ride a punch very well, countering clean and hard off it..


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