Some Cyclists, Poor Visibility & Shutting Down Discussion

cannotlogin · 09-11-2019 10:16PM #1

So after a near miss & narrowly avoiding a cyclist this this evening, I posted in the cycling forum and well it didn't go well.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058029449/1

So after hours posters, why will some cyclists not make themselves visible enough? And why are some cyclists so defensive when discussing it?

07Lapierre · 09-11-2019 11:01PM

I dunno... next time you SEE a cyclist not visible enough, ask them?

Salary Negotiator · 09-11-2019 11:06PM

cannotlogin wrote: »

So after hours posters, why will some cyclists not make themselves visible enough? And why are some cyclists so defensive when discussing it?

Probably because the ones you’re asking are fully lit up and have very little in common with the people you’re talking about other than sometimes riding a bike.

SeanW · 09-11-2019 11:08PM

Suggesting that cyclists take a modicum of responsibility for visibility, helmets etc is a bit like insulting Muhammad to an ISIS fanatic on crack. And it has largely the same result.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 09-11-2019 11:25PM

I'm not a cyclist but drive a lot. I rarely see a cyclist not well lit up. They all seem to wear fluorescent clothing and use flashing lights day and night.

peasant · 09-11-2019 11:25PM

Some people (not just certain cyclists) just live in their own bubble.

During a particularly bad night in town, dark and rainy, I once drove behind a car whose driver twice beeped a different pedestrians crossing the road because they were nearly invisible in these conditions. Dark clothes, blinding lights, heavy rain, etc

A few minutes later, she pulled in at the side of the road, opened the door and stepped straight into the road herself. Totally invisible, dressed all in black.

So I beeped at her ...and she just gave out to me

HorrorScope · 09-11-2019 11:30PM

SeanW wrote: »

Suggesting that cyclists take a modicum of responsibility for visibility, helmets etc is a bit like insulting Muhammad to an ISIS fanatic on crack. And it has largely the same result.

Absolutely. They see no need for high vis, helmets, and don’t even think about pulling them up on running red lights because they are entitled to do so and motorists will be to blame anyway if it ends in tears. Scum of the ****ing earth is what they are and that forum can eat a bag of dicks.

ILoveYourVibes · 09-11-2019 11:30PM

cannotlogin wrote: »

So after a near miss & narrowly avoiding a cyclist this this evening, I posted in the cycling forum and well it didn't go well.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058029449/1

So after hours posters, why will some cyclists not make themselves visible enough? And why are some cyclists so defensive when discussing it?

Its the cycling forum not the lets moan about cyclists forum.

And yes you are correct ...they SHOULD be more visible. And those people on stand up scooters are NUTS!

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 09-11-2019 11:30PM

I’m from the countryside and we grew up using torches and reflective strips when walking at night. I know they say high vis is useless in urban areas but, from my experience, in pitch dark or twilighty countryside, bright coloured clothing - not necessarily high vis - did help a lot in seeing people walking from the car before you were completely up on them. Ditto reflective strips. Torches are probably the best thing for making yourself visible but people make out like they are the only useful thing in this regard and that’s not been my experience.

I don’t quite understand some of the controversial topics that get cyclists fired up and I’m a former cyclist (only stopped for health reasons). It’s all very entrenched. I know cyclists are moaned about a lot, believe me, but that seems to have made a lot of cyclists very stubborn themselves.

ILoveYourVibes · 09-11-2019 11:32PM

Quentin Lazy Quadriplegic wrote: »

I'm not a cyclist but drive a lot. I rarely see a cyclist not well lit up. They all seem to wear fluorescent clothing and use flashing lights day and night.

You do ..they are not regular cyclists and usually doing the one off journey so they don't see it as worth investing in a helmut let alone a reflective vest. They will probably never cycle again for a year.

07Lapierre · 09-11-2019 11:33PM

Can’t speak for anyone else who rides a bike, but My bike is fitted with a Hope R4 1500lumen front light. I also have a Garmin Varia 800lumen front light. My rear light is a Hope District rear light and I also have a Garmin varia rear light/radar. I have reflective tape on the rear mudguard and on the front forks. Both tyres have reflective sidewalls. My helmet has a reflective strip on the rear. My jacket has reflective elements front and back. My cycling shoes have reflective material on the heel. My trousers have reflective stripes on front and rear. That enough?

Badly Drunk Boy · 09-11-2019 11:34PM

cannotlogin wrote: »

So after a near miss & narrowly avoiding a cyclist this this evening, I posted in the cycling forum and well it didn't go well.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058029449/1

So after hours posters, why will some cyclists not make themselves visible enough? And why are some cyclists so defensive when discussing it?

I don't think I've ever used the Cycling forum but I had a look to see what you posted there. It looks like you just wanted to vent your ire at cyclists while admitting that they weren't the cyclists you were mad at, but you still wanted them to apologise. And you didn't respond to the Mod perfectly reasonable response to your original post.

cannotlogin wrote: »

I accept that most people in the cycling forum are probably more visible than the standard commuter, however surely even those cyclists have to admit that there are a lot of people on the road that do not take enough care.

ILoveYourVibes · 09-11-2019 11:36PM

07Lapierre wrote: »

Agree they don’t pay road tax either!

They don't pollute either.:pac:

07Lapierre · 09-11-2019 11:52PM

To be fair OP, there is no reason for any cyclist to cycle at night or in low light conditions without descent, working LIGHTS. Modern lights are cheap and very bright. Hi viz is no substitute for good lights.

In Ireland, it’s a legal requirement to have working lights (a red rear light and a white front light) on All vehicles during the hours of darkness. It is the responsibility of the Gardai to enforce this law.

That fact is, in Ireland we have a very poor record of enforcing road traffic laws.

In reality your asking the wrong question. You should be asking: “ why are road traffic laws regarding cyclists using lights not enforced more rigorously by the Gardai?”

Still waters · 09-11-2019 11:54PM

Cyclists continue to think they're made of tougher stuff than cars, buses and trucks, it usually doesn't work out to well for them tho, that's the the problem with flesh and bone, it bends a lot easier than steel and glass

John_Rambo · 09-11-2019 11:56PM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

And yes you are correct ...they SHOULD be more visible.

The majority of cycle deaths in Ireland occur in broad daylight and the victims have been hit by motorised vehicles. I wear a helmet and have two flashing rear lights and two front lights, one flashing and one permanently on beam. I still got knocked off my bike in daylight hours by a moron that admitted she saw me signalling, had time to stop, but felt I shouldn't have been turning right on to my road as I was blocking her way forward.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

And those people on stand up scooters are NUTS!

NUTS!? How many people do they kill every year? Take a look at the Dashcam videos on the motoring section and tell me who the nuts are.

ILoveYourVibes · 09-11-2019 11:57PM

Still waters wrote: »

Cyclists continue to think they're made of tougher stuff than cars, buses and trucks, it usually doesn't work out to well for them tho, that's the the problem with flesh and bone, it bends a lot easier than steel and glass

My brother cycles with a helmut reflective gear the lot ...he cycled home into the drive way took off his helmut ..got on the bike for a second to wheel it past the gate ..came off in the driveway and needed 8 metal stitches!

IN THE DRIVEWAY!

07Lapierre · 10-11-2019 12:06AM

Still waters wrote: »

Cyclists continue to think they're made of tougher stuff than cars, buses and trucks, it usually doesn't work out to well for them tho, that's the the problem with flesh and bone, it bends a lot easier than steel and glass

People in cars also think that cars are a lot safer than they actually are. People see nothing wrong with driving at 120kph along the M50 wearing nothing but a seat belt. All cars should be fitted with a rollcage, a 5 point safety harness, a fuel cell (instead of a large fuel tank) and an external isolation switch! After all, skin and bone breaks a lot easier then steel right?

John_Rambo · 10-11-2019 12:33AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilMufEg7i2U

Cork man here with all the gear, lit up, day and night, check out the close passes some of which are cynical, dangerous punishments with no traffic in the lane right of the drivers.

Chiparus · 10-11-2019 12:38AM

07Lapierre wrote: »

People in cars also think that cars are a lot safer than they actually are. People see nothing wrong with driving at 120kph along the M50 wearing nothing but a seat belt. All cars should be fitted with a rollcage, a 5 point safety harness, a fuel cell (instead of a large fuel tank) and an external isolation switch! After all, skin and bone breaks a lot easier then steel right?

They should wear helmets and neck protectors as well. The ammount of whip lash they suffer is shocking.

07Lapierre · 10-11-2019 12:39AM

Being visible is one thing... but being OBSERVANT is much more important.

Light and hi viz are useless if nobody is actually looking.

SeanW · 10-11-2019 01:07AM

07Lapierre wrote: »

People in cars also think that cars are a lot safer than they actually are. People see nothing wrong with driving at 120kph along the M50 wearing nothing but a seat belt. All cars should be fitted with a rollcage, a 5 point safety harness, a fuel cell (instead of a large fuel tank) and an external isolation switch! After all, skin and bone breaks a lot easier then steel right?

First of all, it is legal to use the Southern part of the M50 at 120kph.

Now, if you can demonstrate BOTH that the devices you are calling for will save lives and that the insane levels of cost/inconvenience caused by those devices are warranted given such savings, the feel free to advocate same. As part of this, please outline:

1) What exactly do you mean by "fuel cell"? How will fuel cells enhance road safety?
2) How much will it cost to add roll cages and 5 point harnasses to all new passenger vehicles, including buses?
3) How much would it cost to retrofit vehicles with all of these devices - including buses?
4) What about buses where people have to stand? How would 5 point harnesses work in those cases?
5) What other countries require these types of devices? What is the international experience with regard to roll cages and other devices in passenger vehicles?
6) Would trains have to be included? If so, how would standees on such trains be protected?

SeanW · 10-11-2019 01:09AM

Chiparus wrote: »

They should wear helmets and neck protectors as well. The ammount of whip lash they suffer is shocking.

What types of motor accidents do you thing that helmets will provide protection for motorists in? Under what circumstances would a helmet provide protection that a seat belt, airbags and the roof of the car do not? And what level of protection would the helmet provide under these circumstances?

John_Rambo · 10-11-2019 01:27AM

SeanW wrote: »

What types of motor accidents do you thing that helmets will provide protection for motorists in? Under what circumstances would a helmet provide protection that a seat belt, airbags and the roof of the car do not? And what level of protection would the helmet provide under these circumstances?

Calm down. This isn't an attack on your civil liberties! You're an exact mirror of a cyclist being told to wear a helmet even though it's not the law!! And your reaction is the exact same as cyclists that refuse to wear a helmet!

It was obviously a tongue in cheek nudge at the amount of frivolous claims that have come in front of the courts from motorists screwing the insurance system. But, in saying that, most motor deaths are due to brain injuries, I wear a helmet when I'm on track days in Mondello and there's no doubt that wearing helmets will save lives if we were to wear them in our cars.

But you don't have to wear a helmet if you drive 100 metres to the shops, that's your choice. Cyclists don't have to wear a helmet if they cycle 100m metres to the shop either, that's their choice.

u140acro3xs7dm · 10-11-2019 01:27AM

I posted in the original thread - I explained a recent encounter i had.

I spend most of my time in town, and while I do drive, most of my time is on foot, and I find cyclist's worse as a pedestrian than I do as a driver. So many cyclist's are eejits, that said, loads more are aware and thoughtful. The worst cyclist's seem to be the professional, you know the lads, with a 3k bike and head to toe in lycra.

There are also so many pedestrians that are severely dangerous, standing in the middle of the road waiting for a car to pass, dressed in dark clothing - a driver doesn't see them until the last second when it's dark.

As a pedestrian and as a driver, I've also noticed how bad some drivers are. Professional drivers tend to have less respect for other road users, be they on foot, bike, or vehicle.

Morale of the story, cyclist's, pedestrians, and drivers are all dickheads. Everyone needs to calm down a little.

07Lapierre · 10-11-2019 01:34AM

SeanW wrote: »

First of all, it is legal to use the Southern part of the M50 at 120kph.

Now, if you can demonstrate BOTH that the devices you are calling for will save lives and that the insane levels of cost/inconvenience caused by those devices are warranted given such savings, the feel free to advocate same. As part of this, please outline:

1) What exactly do you mean by "fuel cell"? How will fuel cells enhance road safety?
2) How much will it cost to add roll cages and 5 point harnasses to all new passenger vehicles, including buses?
3) How much would it cost to retrofit vehicles with all of these devices - including buses?
4) What about buses where people have to stand? How would 5 point harnesses work in those cases?
5) What other countries require these types of devices? What is the international experience with regard to roll cages and other devices in passenger vehicles?
6) Would trains have to be included? If so, how would standees on such trains be protected?

I never said it was illegal to drive at 120kph?

A fuel cell is another name for a fuel tank that has a rubber internal lining, which helps to prevent fuel spills if the tank is ruptured.

As for cost? There’s no legal requirement for roll cages etc. So if you can’t afford them, don’t fit them. The choice is yours. A bit like cyclists and the wearing of helmets and hi viz!

wakka12 · 10-11-2019 02:35AM

Well personally I dont like how in these situations the person driving the much more dangerous vehicle is the one blaming a far more vulnerable road user who is at the mercy of cars. Maybe thats why theres some attitude, I think the speed limit in urban areas is just set way too high, you shouldnt be allowed drive so fast that it will kill somebody if you hit them

Cars completely dominate urban areas, pedestrians and cyclists work by their rules, and I think thats wrong and not at all how cities should be

Better Than Christ · 10-11-2019 03:19AM

Even if a cyclist isn't wearing high visibility clothing, any driver who can't see them probably shouldn't be on the road.

Samuel T. Cogley · 10-11-2019 03:34AM

That forum is a cesspool in fairness.

mvl · 10-11-2019 03:42AM

As a driver (who is not doing any cycling atm) - can confirm this is very frustrating for me, and it is quite common in the part of town I live.
- Last one that got me cursing with my young one present in the car (something I prefer not to do) was also cycling in the middle of the lane like that.

But surprisingly enough, according to citizensinformation.ie ppl "are not legally obliged to wear a helmet or hi-visibility clothing while cycling in Ireland.".

Really.

tuxy · 10-11-2019 03:49AM

mvl wrote: »

But surprisingly enough, according to citizensinformation.ie ppl "are not legally obliged to wear a helmet or hi-visibility clothing while cycling in Ireland.".

Really.

Are you aware of the mandatory helmet wearing laws in Austrailla and the negative impact it has had both on health and traffic. So we can learn from that and not copy it.
That doesn't even take into consideration that helmets don't help for concussion the most common dangerous outcome from a head injury while cycling.

All cyclists should have good working lights this time of year.
I now see they are offering cars in dark colours, this is extremely reckless and needs to change.

Some Cyclists, Poor Visibility & Shutting Down Discussion

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