Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

tuxy wrote: »

You're right but I don't think you can appeal just for the sake of appealing. His solicitor must have something in mind where he believes something was done incorrectly. I wonder on what grounds the appeal will be made.

For sure, that is the case, you can't just appeal for the sake of appealing, you must satisfy a judge that you have solid grounds for the appeal before it ever gets allowed.

I suppose where I'm coming from is this, if he attempts an appeal but it gets rejected, or, he is allowed to appeal & it fails, it will copper-fasten the fact that he does not accept what he done, that won't bode well with the review board.

splinter65 wrote: »

I don’t think a lot of people can grasp the whole picture here.
I can’t anyway.
This is now a society where humans don’t have any value or worth just by dint of being humans.
In order to have a worth now you have to have the mass approval of your peers.
Ana didn’t meet the criteria by any stretch of the imagination so had no worth to them beyond being an ideal candidate to star in their own real life rape/murder fantasy adventure.

Ana was worth millions more than them. A fact they miscalculated badly.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The problem stated on this thread was making sure that their daughter doesn't end up dating one of these boys in the future, so I presented a reasonable solution for this.

If you have a different problem that needs solving, maybe you'd like to clarify what the problem is - though it may be a little off topic for this thread.

My problem and maybe this specific thread might not be best to bring it up is these 2 (I agree should be name) are not the only threats out there and rather then focusing on these 2 people should concentrate on what is in front of them and be diligent that way. Also when these 2 get released if ever they will have changed appearance wise so all you have is a name. So will you swear off John's or Sean's forever.

Deleted User wrote: »

Boy B has a lot of extra information he can bring out for an appeal. He can tell a story of just going along with the scheme and then being too scared to tell his family and the police about it. As he wasn't the one who assaulted or murdered Ana, it's not unreasonable that his murder conviction might be overturned. I would say he (or more accurately, his lawyers) can deflect all blame onto Boy A if B is seen to be cooperating and credible.

The only known credible fact regarding Boy 'B' is that he led Ana to her death.

Everything else he contributed afterwards was laced with lies and deceit & given his high IQ referred to by the judge, was done knowingly by Boy 'B' in order to be self serving.

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

Going on the slating the judge gave him, referring to his high IQ & deviousness in attempting to cover up & his total lack of remorse, he has to have no chance.

Nothing would surprise me with our justice system. Further torment for poor Anna’s family now.

smelly sock wrote: »

I think there is obviously serious psychological issues at play... No way can anyway be right in the head to commit a premeditated crime like that...

I agree fully with this part of your post. The challenge then is to understand what factors influenced this behaviour and how they can be addressed.

It’s all too easy to take a ”lock them up and throw away the key”, approach. Even if it were appropriate for the two boys, and I don’t agree that it is, it doesn’t address the broader issue of why they did this.

There is a very good article in today’s Irish Times, on factors may have contributed to this tragedy. Some extracts:

“Less easy to discount as a factor is the huge amount of, sometimes violent, pornography consumed by Boy A.” What efforts have all of made to restrict access to this deluge?

“... there is a growing consensus that unfettered access to extreme pornography from a young age can be highly destructive.“ What steps are parents/schools/authorities taking to educate and prepare young minds in relation to this?

“... Indeed, just on Monday the Central Criminal Court sentenced a boy who was 14 when he attempted to murder a woman in Dún Laoghaire. His mother told the court she had tried in vain to get her son inpatient care prior to the attack.
“A lot of it is unchecked, un-met, undiagnosed psychological difficulties.” Ana’s murder “should be a wake-up call”, Noble says.”

We all have a stake in the type of society our children and grandchildren are growing up in. In my option we are all failing them when the type of material referred to in the article is widely available, without any public outcry.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

The state is choosing not to tell, by granting them anonymity. Therefore should they re-offend the state will be complicit as far as i'm concerned. For A, ever letting them out and B, helping them conceal their pasts

The usual argument for anonymity is to protect the victim, say in a rape case where the victim doesn't want to be identified by association - and that's fine to a degree although i do think it endangers others, but to spare any more suffering by the victim that's a reasonable payoff.

Anna can't be spared anything so that's not an argument, i don't believe the 2 pieces of shít who killed her should be spared anything.

By the way I am not disagreeing they should be named. But then what all you have are names until if they get released. That will be a long time hopefully. Then what all you have a name nothing what they look like. These 2 should becoming nothings to people instead they are getting 2 much coverage

tuxy wrote: »

Was it the boys family or the solicitor that said they didn't accept the verdict when it was announced? So unfortunately there was always a high chance of this.

Some of the juries decision was based on interpretation and not hard facts. The jury made the right call but boy B has nothing to lose by attempting an appeal.

An appeal could also result in a longer sentence.

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

I don't know about that!

The judge clearly stated yesterday when he addressed them directly that they had a lot of work to do to show they accepted what they had done in order to have any chance when they eventually face the review board.

This could equally apply to an appeal. If convicted on appeal the further failure to accept what he had done and put Ana's family through more pain in the process, could be viewed as a compounding factor and the lack of remorse shown result in a longer sentence.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Once again ridiculous generalisation

No it’s not. There’s quite a sizeable amount of very very very shallow young people who cannot appraise others in any other way other then social media levels

splinter65 wrote: »

No it’s not. There’s quite a sizeable amount of very very very shallow young people who cannot appraise others in any other way other then social media levels

And a sizeable amount of great young people who simply do not deserve to be lumped in and tarred with the same brush . I think its a dreadful statement to make about a whole generation
I visit my mam in a care home and deal with wonderful young people who volunteer to read to the elderly patients . Another group come in and sing to them or play board games

And this is repeated all over the country by various young groups of people
Please don’t put them all down as its grossly unfair

iamwhoiam wrote: »

And a sizeable amount of great young people who simply do not deserve to be lumped in and tarred with the same brush . I think its a dreadful statement to make about a whole generation
I visit my mam in a care home and deal with wonderful young people who volunteer to read to the elderly patients . Another group come in and sing to them or play board games

And this is repeated all over the country by various young groups of people
Please don’t put them all down as its grossly unfair

I haven’t generalised. Please show me where I generalised? Thank you.

splinter65 wrote: »

I haven’t generalised. Please show me where I generalised? Thank you.

I quote some of your posts
““ a sizaeable amount of young people “ “

“”“ This is now a society where humans don’t have any value or worth just by dint of being humans.””





Have you statistics or links or proof that a sizeable amount of young people are shallow and mean spirited ?

Thankfully the young people around me and who I deal with are far from shallow and mean spirited . There are large amount of young people talking part in caring activities and volunteering . Give them some credit