Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Letwin_Larry · 05-11-2019 02:36PM

Sardonicat wrote: »

*James* Bolger

It was a film. 'Child's Play' IIRC.

yep that's the one they tried to use as an excuse for the Bulger killers.

my belief is you can always find an excuse, when in reality these killers are born with something missing or badly wired in them.
not only do they have no empathy, but they actually enjoy killing. (i mean why did Boy B hang around and watch?) it's probably the closest thing they get to emotion.
that's why i'm in favour of naming them. they will reoffend given the opportunity imo.

05-11-2019 02:37PM

Donnielighto wrote: »

Is there any correlation between the popularity of videogames and crimes, volent or otherwise. If not then this it's scapegoating an easy target.

Its a bit like taking drugs for the vast majority no lasting effect for some huge negative effects on their life and the lives of those around them. The problem is there is no definitive way of knowing which group someone falls in to.

05-11-2019 02:38PM

salmocab wrote: »

Their siblings have the same genes though.

No they don't, not necessarily. Innocent until proven guilty.

You don't share all your genes with your siblings, in fact you might only share 50% of them. Also there are epigenetic factors that cause genes to be expressed or not.

And it's more from the standpoint that you should lose all rights for life when you do something like this, including reproduction. Or we could just bring back the death penalty - for a clear cut case like this with buckets of evidence I think it's justifiable.

Faugheen · 05-11-2019 02:41PM

The problem here is there’s far too many other children involved in this. If they can be identified, then everything comes out, where they went to school, and then anyone associated with that school finds themselves in a situation they don’t want to be in, especially those kids in that school who are the same age as the boys.

I fully understand why people are pissed off, but naming them would absolutely not be fair on all those other kids who find themselves part of this through no fault of their own.

Lefty Bicek · 05-11-2019 02:43PM

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Why not the same hate for adult murderers?

I don't have an evidence-based answer to that.

I don't see youth as innocent and necessarily full of potential.

I think for many people there is an idealisation of youth, at least partly because we all wish we had it back for ourselves. And that it being precious, we would not squander it by doing something that would get us into Oberstown for a long time.

Whereas I think that some people are just bad. To their core. And at whatever age they would kill a child, they would be reviled.

05-11-2019 02:45PM

Faugheen wrote: »

The problem here is there’s far too many other children involved in this. If they can be identified, then everything comes out, where they went to school, and then anyone associated with that school finds themselves in a situation they don’t want to be in, especially those kids in that school who are the same age as the boys.

I fully understand why people are pissed off, but naming them would absolutely not be fair on all those other kids who find themselves part of this through no fault of their own.

what other kids are 'involved' here?

far more likely that kids not involved will fall under suspicion due to the identities of the murderers being covered up

BarryD2 · 05-11-2019 02:46PM

Charles Leclerc wrote: »

What exactly will that achieve?

It will only serve to put their families in danger as the boys will be just at the start of their sentences.

You keep putting out this line. You haven't addressed as far as I can see, the simple fact that people are routinely identified in court cases, up and down the country. It's part of the public justice system.

We used to put people in stocks and throw rotten food at them or organise lynch mobs, the public system was to hang people and leave their bodies/ heads on public display to deter others. We've moved away from the excesses of those times but an integral part was and is public identification.

If public identification is good enough for shop lifters or people who abuse their spouses, then it's good enough for these murderers when they are 18. Why should the norm be public identification but not in this case. Something is rotten with this aspect.

Letwin_Larry · 05-11-2019 02:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

No they don't, not necessarily. Innocent until proven guilty.

You don't share all your genes with your siblings, in fact you might only share 50% of them. Also there are epigenetic factors that cause genes to be expressed or not.

And it's more from the standpoint that you should lose all rights for life when you do something like this, including reproduction. Or we could just bring back the death penalty - for a clear cut case like this with buckets of evidence I think it's justifiable.

i am not in favour of the death penalty, except in cases where there is clear evidence of cruelty to the victim(s).
however sterilization would "remove" them from the gene pool.

Charles Leclerc · 05-11-2019 02:48PM

BarryD2 wrote: »

You keep putting out this line. You haven't addressed as far as I can see, the simple fact that people are routinely identified in court cases, up and down the country. It's part of the public justice system.

We used to put people in stocks and throw rotten food at them or organise lynch mobs, the public system was to hang people and leave their bodies/ heads on public display to deter others. We've moved away from the excesses of those times but an integral part was and is public identification.

If public identification is good enough for shop lifters or people who abuse their spouses, then it's good enough for these murderers when they are 18. Why should the norm be public identification but not in this case. Something is rotten with this aspect.

Minors are not routinely named up and down the country. As for your second paragraph, thankfully those days are long gone.

Shoplifters families won't be subject to vigilantism.

Lefty Bicek · 05-11-2019 02:50PM

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

What? Why not if it's an adult? People wanting these two lads hanged but their has been much worse committed by adults over the years and I don't remember seeing the vitriol and hate that's been spewed (rightfully so) about this case then.

Why not if it's an adult ?

I don't know. I'm just acknowledging that this case has generated 6.3k posts, and many other murders do not.

I believe that part of that discrepancy is explained by the fact that the killers here were teenagers and not adults. Partly too by media coverage. Ad by the youth of the victim.

And I think if another murder occurs in the land, is committed by a teenager or teenagers, and gets the same media coverage as this one, then it will be another 'X' thousand-post thread here.

Whereas another murder might not necessarily. I speak as someone who remembers when a murder in Ireland was big, big, big news. It isn't anymore, to consumers of media. It's a daily event.

BarryD2 · 05-11-2019 02:50PM

Charles Leclerc wrote: »

Minors are not routinely named up and down the country. As for your second paragraph, thankfully those days are long gone.

It is accepted that their identities are protected as minors. The question at hand though is why further protection is being handed to these people, beyond the age of minority..............

BENDYBINN · 05-11-2019 02:51PM

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

i am not in favour of the death penalty, except in cases where there is clear evidence of cruelty to the victim(s).
however sterilization would "remove" them from the gene pool.

Sweet Jesus..
Are you in favor of all murderers been castrated?

Charles Leclerc · 05-11-2019 02:52PM

BarryD2 wrote: »

It is accepted that their identities are protected as minors. The question at hand though is why further protection is being handed to these people, beyond the age of minority..............

Because in this case both will be in detention once they turn 18 therefore no threat to the public will exist. There is no reason to name them in this instance.

Faugheen · 05-11-2019 02:53PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

what other kids are 'involved' here?

far more likely that kids not involved will fall under suspicion due to the identities of the murderers being covered up

You ask me a question that indicates you don’t know what I’m talking about then follow it up with a statement that indicates you do know what I’m talking about.

Stop wasting my time, please. You know exactly what I was trying to say.

BarryD2 · 05-11-2019 02:56PM

Charles Leclerc wrote: »

Because in this case both will be in detention once they turn 18 therefore no threat to the public will exist. There is no reason to name them in this instance.

Well let's hope that the media have the guts to name & shame them publicly when they've both turned 18. And fulfill this aspect of public justice on behalf of the people.

Charles Leclerc · 05-11-2019 02:58PM

BarryD2 wrote: »

Well let's hope that the media have the guts to name & shame them publicly when they've both turned 18.

The media will do what the judge tells them to. Thankfully.

Do you think the media care about you and your family? They want to sell papers, end of.

King of Kings · 05-11-2019 03:00PM

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

i am not in favour of the death penalty, except in cases where there is clear evidence of cruelty to the victim(s).
however sterilization would "remove" them from the gene pool.

The fact you think like that is worrying
Maybe go move to china or north korea..im sure they do that type of torture there....

Lads were 13 ffs....not defending them in any way but ive seen posters here want their execution and now this....nothing more than a mob of weirdos feeling brave on the net....just vomiting out your thoughts with no regard for any consequences and the precident it would set.

Mantis Toboggan · 05-11-2019 03:09PM

They should be named and shamed and forced to live with the consequences of their actions.

Wanderer78 · 05-11-2019 03:12PM

Mantis Toboggan wrote:

They should be named and shamed and forced to live with the consequences of their actions.

...because naming and shaming always prevents future criminal acts, and other stuff.....

Bigbagofcans · 05-11-2019 03:13PM

take everything wrote: »

I, and I'm sure most people, have no intention of harming these pieces of crap when they're released but we would like to steer clear of them when they're released.

When they're released would they be free to start a new life in the UK or elsewhere?

KWAG2019 · 05-11-2019 03:14PM

I imagine similar threads have run on boards over the years. Some posters are characterized as a lynch mob, braying, baying for blood. Some take the approach that has dominated the Irish justice system since I’d imagine from the 70’s on: I will characterize that as ultra liberal, belief in redemption of anyone, belief in miracles of rehabilitation, fiercely judgmental and critical of anyone who takes a different view. I wonder if a poll was taken on Boards of whether posters felt the sentence was about right, too lenient or too harsh what would the results be? I wonder if society needs to stop and say we’ve had the approach we’ve had from the 70’s. This is 2019 with far more science and analytic data available. Let’s start a proper review of this.

baldbear · 05-11-2019 03:16PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...because naming and shaming always prevents future criminal acts, and other stuff.....

When these scum are released should the general public not have the right to know they are living beside rapists and murderers?

Letwin_Larry · 05-11-2019 03:16PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...because naming and shaming always prevents future criminal acts, and other stuff.....

no but in my eyes and many others it's called JUSTICE.

conorhal · 05-11-2019 03:16PM

BENDYBINN wrote: »

Strange, if an adult had committed the same murder there wouldn’t be half as much fuss. They’re are only kids for gods sake....

They're only child murderers for God's sake....

Certain types of unusual crimes tend to cause the general public to to ask what sort of failings might have happened at a societal level that might have precipitated them, because they may have broader implications for everybody and not just one particular victim.

When children rape and murder children a serious examination needs to be conducted to ascertain if this crime is an aberration, or some sort of societal 'canary in the coal mine' and an indicator of a broader problem.

It's a bit like the spate of parents killing their children in murder/suicide scenarios over the past few years.

People are wondering what is going on in society when a crime that was once as rare as hens teeth becomes a commonplace headline.

Perhaps the 'fuss' as you call it, might be warranted, because aparently children gang raping children is becoming a thing lately (twice in the past year this has been reported on) and none of this feels like a 'one off' so much as it feels like a progression from some larger failing that disturbs the public psyche to a very great degree and we all want answers.

Wanderer78 · 05-11-2019 03:18PM

baldbear wrote:

When these scum are released should the general public not have the right to know they are living beside rapists and murderers?

We live with people who do and have committed many crimes, thankfully extreme crimes, as mentioned, are rare, I.e. you ll be grand

Assetbacked · 05-11-2019 03:20PM

The only satisfactory outcome at this point is vigilante justice.

05-11-2019 03:21PM

Faugheen wrote: »

You ask me a question that indicates you don’t know what I’m talking about then follow it up with a statement that indicates you do know what I’m talking about.

Stop wasting my time, please. You know exactly what I was trying to say.

cheek of you

you say "dont name them" and hint at some issues with "other kids" that you refuse to clarify.

then you are challenged that not naming them actually raises significantly the seeming likelihood of other kids being put at risk.

then you claim that your position is so self-evident that it's a waste of your time to have it questioned?

youre a character.

care to actually set out any of what you meant in your post, because I'm as well to tell you it was as clear as mud.

Letwin_Larry · 05-11-2019 03:24PM

conorhal wrote: »

They're only child murderers for God's sake....

Certain types of unusual crimes tend to cause the general public to to ask what sort of failings might have happened at a societal level that might have precipitated them, because they may have broader implications for everybody and not just one particular victim.

When children rape and murder children a serious examination needs to be conducted to ascertain if this crime is an aberration, or some sort of societal 'canary in the coal mine' and an indicator of a broader problem.

It's a bit like the spate of parents killing their children in murder/suicide scenarios over the past few years.

People are wondering what is going on in society when a crime that was once as rare as hens teeth becomes a commonplace headline.

Perhaps the 'fuss' as you call it, might be warranted, because aparently children gang raping children is becoming a thing lately (twice in the past year this has been reported on) and none of this feels like a 'one off' so much as it feels like a progression from some larger failing that disturbs the public psyche to a very great degree and we all want answers.

no nothing special about these 2 killers. i believe they are genetic aberrations/freaks. such types thankfully are rare, but they have always existed imo.
the only thing that might be different is the extra (social) media attention and the proliferation of 1st year psychology students thereon.

o1s1n · 05-11-2019 03:24PM

baldbear wrote: »

When these scum are released should the general public not have the right to know they are living beside rapists and murderers?

Unfortunately you could be living beside a rapist or murderer right now and might not even know.

I do agree though that upon release, they should be named. None of this new identity rubbish, live with the consequences of your actions.

francie81 · 05-11-2019 03:25PM

When Ana’s parents say ‘forever is not long enough’ are they hinting at capital punishment a life for a life sort of thing I wonder?
Regardless how horrifying this must of being for them.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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