BANGERNOMICS (sub2k) of the week/day Part 6

Hoboo · 01-11-2019 01:19AM

Hunky Monster wrote: »

That bmw is a bargain. One of the most bomb proof engines ever made.

I have no idea, car clueless. What year BMW's are best, and what do you stay clear of? How do you know what engine it has? Cheers

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 01-11-2019 02:31AM

Hoboo wrote: »

I have no idea, car clueless. What year BMW's are best, and what do you stay clear of? How do you know what engine it has? Cheers

In an e90 320d for bangernomics purposes, anything up until 2007 is good, there's quite a few 2008's that have this M47 good engine before it was replaced by the N47. The N47 isn't junk but it could require a timing chain replacement and doesn't give you a whole pile of warning before it snaps. Pre-facelift diesel BMW 320's are M47 before they changed the headlights, bumpers, bonnet and grille in 2008. If you're clever you can get an early 2008 with cheap tax of 280 p/a as opposed to 710 p/a with a 2007.

If you manage to find a cheap 2008+ facelift model and go for the N47... wouldn't be my personal choice but.... when you start the engine, let it idle and sit in the drivers seat and listen for a noise that sounds, what I can only describe like a single, gently shaken maraca from behind the centre of the dash. The timing chain is sited at the back of the engine compartment, and is most audible from inside. Raise the revs, and the cadence of the noise will increase. If it does that, walk away. If you hear nothing still be wary that it'll probably need doing at some stage and that's quite a costly job.

I've owned a few, some with 20 thousand miles and others with 200 thousand miles. Suspension is a different matter... the "m-sport" spec rides quite hard and parts wear out quick! I seem to be continuously replacing worn out bits. I'm easily under the car every three months replacing something...and quite complex in terms of it will drive fine, no squeaks, rattles or bangs but your NCT tester will undoubtedly tell you there's something a miss. It happens every single time.

Basically for bangernomics. Early 2008 (cheap tax), pre facelift 320d.

On the left is facelift (LCI), right is pre facelift.

jmreire · 01-11-2019 10:36AM

Hunky Monster wrote: »

In an e90 320d for bangernomics purposes, anything up until 2007 is good, there's quite a few 2008's that have this M47 good engine before it was replaced by the N47. The N47 isn't junk but it could require a timing chain replacement and doesn't give you a whole pile of warning before it snaps. Pre-facelift diesel BMW 320's are M47 before they changed the headlights, bumpers, bonnet and grille in 2008. If you're clever you can get an early 2008 with cheap tax of 280 p/a as opposed to 710 p/a with a 2007.

If you manage to find a cheap 2008+ facelift model and go for the N47... wouldn't be my personal choice but.... when you start the engine, let it idle and sit in the drivers seat and listen for a noise that sounds, what I can only describe like a single, gently shaken maraca from behind the centre of the dash. The timing chain is sited at the back of the engine compartment, and is most audible from inside. Raise the revs, and the cadence of the noise will increase. If it does that, walk away. If you hear nothing still be wary that it'll probably need doing at some stage and that's quite a costly job.

I've owned a few, some with 20 thousand miles and others with 200 thousand miles. Suspension is a different matter... the "m-sport" spec rides quite hard and parts wear out quick! I seem to be continuously replacing worn out bits. I'm easily under the car every three months replacing something...and quite complex in terms of it will drive fine, no squeaks, rattles or bangs but your NCT tester will undoubtedly tell you there's something a miss. It happens every single time.

Basically for bangernomics. Early 2008 (cheap tax), pre facelift 320d.

On the left is facelift (LCI), right is pre facelift.

Thats as good a piece of advice for anyone looking at buying a BMW as I have ever heard !!! And with Pics too. Good post, Thanks.:D

Peter T · 01-11-2019 11:03AM

Also something to add is the use of run flats in the LCI (not sure about non face lift, haven't owned one). Coupled with msport suspension on Irish roads can lead to a harsh drive. Staggered wheel fitment (Run flat tires starting at 180 for the front 240 at the back) . Also the crank pulley is a common fault too and can fail. If buying and it hasn't been replaced id factor a replacement into cost for peace of mind

Hoboo · 01-11-2019 12:15PM

Jaysus thanks Hunky Monster, appreciate that.

flexcon · 01-11-2019 12:20PM

Hunky Monster wrote: »

In an e90 320d for bangernomics purposes, anything up until 2007 is good, there's quite a few 2008's that have....

Ok so I shopping for a BMW 320 and I have no idea why......fair play.

Duke O Smiley · 01-11-2019 01:26PM

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/toyota-carina-2/23379510

N2YyMDdmYTk2OTc1MWY5YzJlYjk0MjhhMDAzZTliOTZFNyC2q1rv0fYnAGXvxPFyaHR0cDovL3MzLWV1LXdlc3QtMS5hbWF6b25hd3MuY29tL2RvbmVkZWFsLmllLXBob3Rvcy9waG90b18xMzU1ODY2MTl8fHw2MDB4NjAwfHx8fHx8fHw=.jpeg

N2YyMDdmYTk2OTc1MWY5YzJlYjk0MjhhMDAzZTliOTZFNyC2q1rv0fYnAGXvxPFyaHR0cDovL3MzLWV1LXdlc3QtMS5hbWF6b25hd3MuY29tL2RvbmVkZWFsLmllLXBob3Rvcy9waG90b18xMzU1ODY2MTl8fHw2MDB4NjAwfHx8fHx8fHw=.jpeg

Carina II, NCT May 2020, only ran in at 230k miles, €1k

I would!

cadaliac · 01-11-2019 01:31PM

flexcon wrote: »

Ok so I shopping for a BMW 320 and I have no idea why......fair play.

Not so fast, I would read the rest of the post, in depth.
In my opinion, they don't make for good bangernomics cars at all. Well, maybe for the DIY guy who can do most things in his shed, but, for a cheap runaround, tax, NCT that you would drive yourself, less than 2k, a BMW 320d with an N47 engine is definitely not for you.
Yes, great car, to drive, but with the notorious engineering fault with that engine that brings the car beyond economic repair on a regular basis.
you would (as HM said) want to know what you are doing going in for one of these - eyes wide open.

repeat: yes - great cars to drive. That's not my point however.

Toyotafanboi · 01-11-2019 01:32PM

Not saying I wouldn't but that yoke is fairly rough by the look of it. The NSR quarter panel is a wreck, rust on the arches and the front A pillars and front leading edge of the roof are painted matte black as a rust cover up I'd say. Looking at the sellers other ads, he's pulled it out of a ditch, dusted it off and added a zero to the price he paid.

How much would a clean one go for these days?

flexcon · 01-11-2019 02:27PM

cadaliac wrote: »

Not so fast, I would read the rest of the post, in depth.
In my opinion, they don't make for good bangernomics cars at all. Well, maybe for the DIY guy who can do most things in his shed, but, for a cheap runaround, tax, NCT that you would drive yourself, less than 2k, a BMW 320d with an N47 engine is definitely not for you.
Yes, great car, to drive, but with the notorious engineering fault with that engine that brings the car beyond economic repair on a regular basis.
you would (as HM said) want to know what you are doing going in for one of these - eyes wide open.

repeat: yes - great cars to drive. That's not my point however.

Was the post not suggesting the M47 engine should be good to go? So like a 2008 M47 - cheap tax and good engine?

terrydel · 01-11-2019 02:40PM

flexcon wrote: »

Was the post not suggesting the M47 engine should be good to go? So like a 2008 M47 - cheap tax and good engine?

It was yeah, thats my reading of it.

On re-reading it, he does say that you'll be under it every three months for suspension related issues, regardless of the engine.
Great post I have to say, thats the kind of post that shows the value of message boards.

marcos_94 · 01-11-2019 03:27PM

terrydel wrote: »

It was yeah, thats my reading of it.

On re-reading it, he does say that you'll be under it every three months for suspension related issues, regardless of the engine.
Great post I have to say, thats the kind of post that shows the value of message boards.

I think like all cars it depends on the previous owners. There are larger risks associated with the BMW but doesnt mean youre under the car every few months. I had an n47 320d coupe for just shy of two years, took it from 70k miles to 100k miles and all I ever had to do was service it. It didnt even leak/burn oil which massively surprised me for a diesel!

Hadnt had the timing chain replaced and prior to selling had brought it to BMW to check the timing chain health which was found to be healthy. The car came with a folder of service history and was clearly well taken care of.

cadaliac · 01-11-2019 03:52PM

flexcon wrote: »

Was the post not suggesting the M47 engine should be good to go? So like a 2008 M47 - cheap tax and good engine?

It was indeed - just re-iterating already great post.
I suppose my point was to highlight the poor quality of the N47 engine. A car that is in Bangernomics territory and all of a sudden you have a car that needs this work done and is not economical to fix.

cadaliac · 01-11-2019 03:55PM

marcos_94 wrote: »

I think like all cars it depends on the previous owners. There are larger risks associated with the BMW but doesnt mean youre under the car every few months. I had an n47 320d coupe for just shy of two years, took it from 70k miles to 100k miles and all I ever had to do was service it. It didnt even leak/burn oil which massively surprised me for a diesel!

Hadnt had the timing chain replaced and prior to selling had brought it to BMW to check the timing chain health which was found to be healthy. The car came with a folder of service history and was clearly well taken care of.

I think this is the issue - if the car has all the correct oil changes (on time) this prevents the wear on the chain. Well, it certainly helps.
Local mechanic recommends doing oil changes sooner than the recommended BMW intervals for this very reason.

terrydel · 01-11-2019 04:15PM

marcos_94 wrote: »

I think like all cars it depends on the previous owners. There are larger risks associated with the BMW but doesnt mean youre under the car every few months. I had an n47 320d coupe for just shy of two years, took it from 70k miles to 100k miles and all I ever had to do was service it. It didnt even leak/burn oil which massively surprised me for a diesel!

Hadnt had the timing chain replaced and prior to selling had brought it to BMW to check the timing chain health which was found to be healthy. The car came with a folder of service history and was clearly well taken care of.

Ah yeah, the biggest determinant on the reliability and longevity of any second hand car is how well previous owners have looked after it.

Duke O Smiley · 01-11-2019 04:25PM

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Not saying I wouldn't but that yoke is fairly rough by the look of it. The NSR quarter panel is a wreck, rust on the arches and the front A pillars and front leading edge of the roof are painted matte black as a rust cover up I'd say. Looking at the sellers other ads, he's pulled it out of a ditch, dusted it off and added a zero to the price he paid.

How much would a clean one go for these days?

It does look a bit of a rough dog alright. Rose tinted glasses and all that..:o

I've just been to pick this up this afternoon, 32k miles, taxed and tested till March but a bit rough around the edges.

Worth 800 to anyone here?

Toyotafanboi · 01-11-2019 04:30PM

I think the arse has fallen out of them. Looks like a nice one though, colour coded bumpers, original hub caps, nice bit of character on the front bumper

Duke O Smiley · 01-11-2019 04:35PM

Its only the bumpers that let it down really, very straight otherwise. Drives as you'd expect and it is like new inside. 3 owners on the book too unfortunately, I picked it up from a monastery and they have it from new. Possible Civic replacement I'm thinking for maximum cheap tax/insurance/fuel spend etc, but I don't know. I know of an 05 with 25k miles that I can have too, I'd be more tempted to take that one on for myself.

Seems like only yesterday this would be 2k all day long

punisher5112 · 01-11-2019 04:56PM

Duke O Smiley wrote: »

Its only the bumpers that let it down really, very straight otherwise. Drives as you'd expect and it is like new inside. 3 owners on the book too unfortunately, I picked it up from a monastery and they have it from new. Possible Civic replacement I'm thinking for maximum cheap tax/insurance/fuel spend etc, but I don't know. I know of an 05 with 25k miles that I can have too, I'd be more tempted to take that one on for myself.

Seems like only yesterday this would be 2k all day long

Sold a 2002 exactly the same with 96k for €2150 3 years ago

Mad how cheap they all are now.

Working class heroes · 01-11-2019 05:14PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

Sold a 2002 exactly the same with 96k for €2150 3 years ago

Mad how cheap they all are now.

Would it be due to the difficulty getting them insured?

punisher5112 · 01-11-2019 05:16PM

Working class heroes wrote: »

Would it be due to the difficulty getting them insured?

Yes it hasn't helped....

selectamatic · 01-11-2019 06:28PM

The mk1 yaris in particular is a great example of the insurance issues decimating 15+ year old used car prices.

Their depreciation run went from hovering around the €1500 mark for a couple of years to €500 in the space of a few months around the end of 2017 early 2018

jmreire · 01-11-2019 06:31PM

marcos_94 wrote: »

I think like all cars it depends on the previous owners. There are larger risks associated with the BMW but doesnt mean youre under the car every few months. I had an n47 320d coupe for just shy of two years, took it from 70k miles to 100k miles and all I ever had to do was service it. It didnt even leak/burn oil which massively surprised me for a diesel!

Hadnt had the timing chain replaced and prior to selling had brought it to BMW to check the timing chain health which was found to be healthy. The car came with a folder of service history and was clearly well taken care of.

I don't know what the statistic's were for timing chain failure on the N47 engines....cannot be that every single one of them failed.... and while you certainly hear about the failures, not too much about the one's that have ran mega miles trouble free, like your one. Still give a dog a bad name, and it will stick. And there has been cases where they had a full BMW service history, and still failed, so while frequent oil changes helped, it was not a guarantee that the chain would not fail.The reverse of that of course, was if it was not serviced...you were practically guaranteed chain failure. Persoanally, I'd be reluctant to take a chance on a N47 engine BMW> But that's just me. I'd like the 320 with the M47 engine though....nice car.

marklazarcovic · 01-11-2019 06:48PM

Sickening thing is there is years left in that Yaris,and it won't be viable for most people.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 01-11-2019 06:55PM

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Sickening thing is there is years left in that Yaris,and it won't be viable for most people.

Unfortunately there will always be a way to phase out these older cars that are perfectly fine. Scrappage schemes, NCT's, old band higher tax and now insurance. Sometimes I wish I'd a massive garage I could just stockpile all these cars in and wait...

Interslice · 01-11-2019 07:01PM

marklazarcovic wrote: »

Sickening thing is there is years left in that Yaris,and it won't be viable for most people.

How bad can the insurance increase be? Part of it is that the boom mentality is back. People choosing to pay 300quid a month for a car loan pcb job because their insurance went up 200 for the year.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 01-11-2019 07:04PM

Interslice wrote: »

How bad can the insurance increase be? Part of it is that the boom mentality is back. People choosing to pay 300quid a month for a car loan pcb job because their insurance went up 200 for the year.

Anyone in the market for an 03 yaris is probably a first time driver or a very inexperienced one, insurance companies can just say "no, too old".

For reference my insurance came down when I went from a 2001 VW Bora 1.4 petrol valued at 300 euro to a 172 BMW 330e.

jmreire · 01-11-2019 07:04PM

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Unfortunately there will always be a way to phase out these older cars that are perfectly fine. Scrappage schemes, NCT's, old band higher tax and now insurance. Sometimes I wish I'd a massive garage I could just stockpile all these cars in and wait...

Don't we all !!! When you see the scrap lorries on the road, piled high with cars, still with plenty of life left in them, even if they would need a bit of work to be done. 1st it was the big push to change to Diesel, not it's the big push to EV's...and all the time the focus is change your car , buy a new one, give the banks business.....get into more debt.

Sofiztikated · 01-11-2019 07:10PM

I'm looking at an 08 Saab Vector TiD. Does the 08 have the sump issues?

Any luck, I'll get it in Bangernomics territory.

Mad_Mike · 01-11-2019 07:45PM

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I'm looking at an 08 Saab Vector TiD. Does the 08 have the sump issues?

Any luck, I'll get it in Bangernomics territory.

Only the OG 9-3's and early 9-5 petrols were affected, so no issue with the TiD

Check the rear wheel arches as they are prone to rusting in the newer gen models
Also, the TiD can be very sluggish to start and most people replace batteries and alternators, but it's sorted 95% of the time with a new starter as the starters get very very lazy on them

BANGERNOMICS (sub2k) of the week/day Part 6

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