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What did people vote for in 2016's EU membership referendum?

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  • 29-10-2019 4:52pm
    #1
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,481 ✭✭✭✭


    The next parliament will be a Brexit parliament - they know that and they don't want that. That would represent what the people voted for and can't have that.

    They don't accept the democratic result of the referendum.

    <split from the main Brexit thread and renamed. This appears to be a divisive issue, please don't let it get too salty. But otherwise, have fun you guys!>


«13456

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    #2
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    They want to make it look like they want an election.

    Then they add a wrecking amendment to ensure it can't happen.

    The next parliament will be a Brexit parliament - they know that and they don't want that. That would represent what the people voted for and can't have that.

    They don't accept the democratic result of the referendum.

    You know better than that.


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    #3
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,569 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    They want to make it look like they want an election.

    Then they add a wrecking amendment to ensure it can't happen.

    The next parliament will be a Brexit parliament - they know that and they don't want that. That would represent what the people voted for and can't have that.

    They don't accept the democratic result of the referendum.


    No, all parties are trying to have the best conditions for themselves to get the most votes. It is why Johnson wanted an election before he even negotiated a deal, because that is what was most favourable for the Tories.

    You cannot now get upset when the opposition is doing the same, especially when they have the numbers to make it happen. It's not their fault Johnson removed the whip from 20 or so MPs, let him pay for his own stupidity now.


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    #4
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,648 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    They want to make it look like they want an election.

    Then they add a wrecking amendment to ensure it can't happen.

    The next parliament will be a Brexit parliament - they know that and they don't want that. That would represent what the people voted for and can't have that.

    They don't accept the democratic result of the referendum    .

    Its clear at this point in time that you cannot keep making these announcements as fact. Youve been doing it for 2 pages. Its getting tiring.

    And your circular argument about what constituted the outcome of the referendum is also boring. Can you change the record and discuss something reasonable rather than this nonsense about democratic results and i daft predictions. nearly every second post of yours has the same thing in it..... why!?


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    #5
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,481 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Hurrache wrote: »
    You know better than that.

    The people voted to leave the European Union.

    I don't need to tell you that in the EU there is form in overturning referendums that go against the project.

    This is, yet again, the long process of overturning the will of an electorate in the EU.

    Thankfully the UK is not Ireland or the Netherlands or France who are told to vote again when the right answer is not given and meekly oblige.

    Election in December, Tory majority, get it done.

    Then everyone moves on and remainers can continue the UK's decades long psychodrama with the EU internally.


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    #6
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,648 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    The people voted to leave the European Union.

    I don't need to tell you that in the EU there is form in overturning referendums that go against the project.

    This is, yet again, the long process of overturning the will of an electorate in the EU.

    Thankfully the UK is not Ireland or the Netherlands or France who are told to vote again when the right answer is not given and meekly oblige.

    Election in December, Tory majority, get it done.

    Then everyone moves on and remainers can continue the UK's decades long psychodrama with the EU internally.

    There isnt, you have been taken to task on this several times.

    Enough with this already. Yes we know you are anti- EU. Its very GD-esqeue. But will you at least keep your opinions factual.

    over turning results give over.


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    #7
    liamtech
    Registered Users Posts: 2,293 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    The people voted to leave the European Union.

    I don't need to tell you that in the EU there is form in overturning referendums that go against the project.

    This is, yet again, the long process of overturning the will of an electorate in the EU.

    Thankfully the UK is not Ireland or the Netherlands or France who are told to vote again when the right answer is not given and meekly oblige.

    Election in December, Tory majority, get it done.

    Then everyone moves on and remainers can continue the UK's decades long psychodrama with the EU internally.

    Kermit why dont you admit your true position? Do us all a favor and spell it out

    You hate the EU

    You dont care about the damage that Brexit will do to Britain, and ireland for that matter

    For you, the principle is the EU are bad - anything else is good

    You agree with this guy

    https://twitter.com/keithbelfast/status/834548717168492544

    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">DUP's Nelson McCausland in his absolute element - No plans and no cares for the people of NI. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NolanLIVE?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc^tfw&quot;&gt;#NolanLIVE&lt;/a&gt; <a href="https://t.co/NgppBKIw6l">pic.twitter.com/NgppBKIw6l</a></p>&mdash; Keith "Halloween Name" Anderson (@keithbelfast) <a href=" 22, 2017</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js&quot; charset="utf-8"></script>

    Strange bedfellows

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



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    #8
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,481 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    listermint wrote: »
    There isnt, you have been taken to task on this several times.

    Enough with this already. Yes we know you are anti- EU. Its very GD-esqeue. But will you at least keep your opinions factual.

    over turning results give over.

    What makes you think I am anti EU?

    I respect democracy. They voted to leave.

    You are the one with the issue wanting to ignore the result.

    The games and schenadigans by remainers in parliament won't prevent the UK leaving despite your best hopes because the UK fundamentally respects the decision of it's voters despite the malcontents in parliament trying to obstruct it and reverse it.


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    #9
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    What makes you think I am anti EU?

    I respect democracy. They voted to leave.

    You are the one with the issue wanting to ignore the result.

    The games and schenadigans by remainers in parliament won't prevent the UK leaving despite your best hopes because the UK fundamentally respects the decision of it's voters despite the malcontents in parliament trying to obstruct it and reverse it.
    Didn't Johnson vote against May's agreement? Is he a remainer?


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    #10
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    The people voted to leave the European Union.

    I don't need to tell you that in the EU there is form in overturning referendums that go against the project.

    This is, yet again, the long process of overturning the will of an electorate in the EU.

    Thankfully the UK is not Ireland or the Netherlands or France who are told to vote again when the right answer is not given and meekly oblige.

    Election in December, Tory majority, get it done.

    Then everyone moves on and remainers can continue the UK's decades long psychodrama with the EU internally.

    The EU looks out for the ordinary people,not a few privileged toffs.The thought of a tory brexit with consequences like the loss of EU health and safety standards etc is truly chilling.
    I hope johnson and co are defeated and consigned to oblivion along with May and Cameron.


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    #11
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    The people voted to leave the European Union.

    What format of leave did they vote for?
    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I don't need to tell you that in the EU there is form in overturning referendums that go against the project.

    I think you do, with an example.
    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    This is, yet again, the long process of overturning the will of an electorate in the EU.

    As above, what is this long process of overturning the will of an electorate?
    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Thankfully the UK is not Ireland or the Netherlands or France who are told to vote again when the right answer is not given and meekly oblige.

    What were we told to vote again on?
    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

    Election in December, Tory majority, get it done.

    Get what done exactly?
    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Then everyone moves on and remainers can continue the UK's decades long psychodrama with the EU internally.

    LOL, move on? You know not an ounce of those 2 words are true with regards to Brexit. There'll be years upon years, if not decades, of future relations and trade agreements ahead of them.


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    #12
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,868 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    What makes you think I am anti EU?

    I respect democracy. They voted to leave.

    You are the one with the issue wanting to ignore the result.

    The games and schenadigans by remainers in parliament won't prevent the UK leaving despite your best hopes because the UK fundamentally respects the decision of it's voters despite the malcontents in parliament trying to obstruct it and reverse it.

    The UK has been free to leave for several years. The EU has not attempted to reverse the UK decision. They would welcome it as it would be to their benefit but the only thing stopping the UK leaving is the democratically elected parliment who have that right. Maybe they should change their constitution if they don't want parliment to have that right?

    I mean why is it up to the EU to help the UK leave? Should Ghana have helped Ireland put through abortion legislation sooner?

    Finally do you respect democracy? Those parlimentarians in the UK are the ultimate symbol of democracy in the UK. They were voted in based on their views and you wish to disparage it. They were voted in after Brexit referendum. In the UK they represent the view of the people. That is how their democracy works.

    The SNP campaigned on remain. Should they ignore what they promised the people? Similar for Lib Dems etc.

    Boris on the other campaigned on no prorogue and we can see how well he fulfilled that promise.


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    #13
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,518 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    What makes you think I am anti EU?

    I respect democracy. They voted to leave.

    You are the one with the issue wanting to ignore the result.

    The games and schenadigans by remainers in parliament won't prevent the UK leaving despite your best hopes because the UK fundamentally respects the decision of it's voters despite the malcontents in parliament trying to obstruct it and reverse it.

    If you respect democracy, what are your thoughts on the Leave campaign breaking the law in order to swing the vote to deliver a leave result?

    What are your thoughts on Theresa May attempting to get her deal voted on 3 times (thus ignoring the first and second democratic votes)?

    What are your thoughts on Johnson attempting to prorogue parliament thus attempting to stifle democratic practice?

    What are your thoughts on the effort that has gone in to the last 3 years without being able to find a clear path forward which will most likely have influenced all observers and thus they are entitled to express their opinions once again on whether or not to leave (as originally posited by Jacob Rees-Mogg)?

    Are you, like many Brexiteers, being entirely selective in your heartfelt desire to see democracy upheld?


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    #14
    liamtech
    Registered Users Posts: 2,293 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Hurrache wrote: »
    What format of leave did they vote for?



    I think you do, with an example.



    As above, what is this long process of overturning the will of an electorate?



    What were we told to vote again on?



    Get what done exactly?



    LOL, move on? You know not an ounce of those 2 words are true with regards to Brexit. There'll be years upon years, if not decades, of future relations and trade agreements ahead of them.
    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    What makes you think I am anti EU?

    I respect democracy. They voted to leave.

    You are the one with the issue wanting to ignore the result.

    The games and schenadigans by remainers in parliament won't prevent the UK leaving despite your best hopes because the UK fundamentally respects the decision of it's voters despite the malcontents in parliament trying to obstruct it and reverse it.



    Kermit Answer the questions - lets have it - spell it out

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



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    #15
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Thankfully the UK is not Ireland or the Netherlands or France who are told to vote again when the right answer is not given and meekly oblige.

    So remind me, how many times did Theresa May make people vote again on her agreement because they didn't give the right answer?

    How many times did Boris Johnson try and make people vote again for an election because they didn't give the right answer?

    How many times did the Tory government force a general election before one was due because they didn't have the right maths?

    How many times did Boris try and bring the same vote forward multiple times because people didn't vote on it the way he wanted first ime round?

    You're just a hypocrite, in your view it's perfectly acceptable to vote on things over and over again if you lose, but if you win then you say that it should never be subject to another vote. Absloutely laughable.

    Going for an election as a proxy fot the question you really want to ask the public about as you are too scared to ask the public directly as you think that you might lose is the actions of a coward who is scared to ask a question directly.


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    #16
    Duane Dibbley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭Duane Dibbley


    Hurrache wrote: »
    What format of leave did they vote for?

    The question was clear.

    The Question was "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union.


    ITs not as if the didn't know what they were voting for based on the question considering they were the electorate are EU citizens.

    17.4 million people voted to no longer be members of the EU whether it was based intelligence or stupidity.


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    #17
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,551 ✭✭✭✭briany


    If the UK took ten years to leave the EU, would that mean that the referendum was respected? All it said was about the UK leaving the EU, it didn't say when it had to happen by. If the UK stayed in the CU and SM, would the the referendum be respected? All it said was about leaving the EU, not the SM or CU as well.

    I bet those who drafted the original referendum legislation are wishing they'd at least thought of a slightly more in-depth, nuanced question.


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    #18
    liamtech
    Registered Users Posts: 2,293 ✭✭✭liamtech


    Duane Dibbley wrote: »
    The question was clear.

    The Question was "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union.


    ITs not as if the didn't know what they were voting for based on the question considering they were the electorate are EU citizens.

    17.4 million people voted to no longer be members of the EU whether it was based intelligence or stupidity.

    The question and argument for Leaving was not clear at all

    Some suggested they would stay in the CM/CU - some didnt

    All suggested a deal would be a piece of P&^% which it certainly isnt

    Most suggested that Brexit had nothing to do with the GFA or the Northern Border

    And now ALL LEAVERS are adamant that there cannot be a second referendum - because they have been found out as being egotistical out of touch Liars who sold Unicorns to the British people, Without a dogs notion of how to deliver
    I’ve been wondering what the special place in hell looks like for those who promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it safely.
    - Donald Tusk

    And damn right

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



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    #19
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,481 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Hurrache wrote: »
    What format of leave did they vote for?

    To leave the European Union and it's institutions. Simple. Nothing complicated.



    As above, what is this long process of overturning the will of an electorate?

    Pro EU leaders in collusion with the EU institutions.

    The faces change, the tactics stay the same from the EU.
    What were we told to vote again on?

    Nice and Lisbon both overturned.

    The "guarantees" (the nonsense you are presumably going to bring up) given meant NOTHING. Defence and tax are up for grabs now.

    We are screwed.


    Get what done exactly?

    Leaving the EU. The trade talks occur AFTER the UK has left which will be an inspirational day for the rest of Europe that finally a country has not had a vote overturned.

    LOL, move on? You know not an ounce of those 2 words are true with regards to Brexit. There'll be years upon years, if not decades, of future relations and trade agreements ahead of them.

    Trade talks occur after UK has left. Invalid point from you because you choose to misinterpret points made.


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    #20
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Duane Dibbley wrote: »
    The question was clear.

    The Question was "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union.


    ITs not as if the didn't know what they were voting for based on the question considering they were the electorate are EU citizens.

    17.4 million people voted to no longer be members of the EU whether it was based intelligence or stupidity.

    Wasn't clear at all as to what they were voting for, which is the issue. You had people from the leave campaign, when the single market or customs union came up, saying that Brexit either doesn't mean leaving them, or after Brexit they'll still have access to the single market, with Hannan at one point even saying
    To repeat, absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market


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    #21
    quokula
    Registered Users Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭quokula


    Duane Dibbley wrote: »
    The question was clear.

    The Question was "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union.


    ITs not as if the didn't know what they were voting for based on the question considering they were the electorate are EU citizens.

    17.4 million people voted to no longer be members of the EU whether it was based intelligence or stupidity.

    So they voted to leave the EU but didn't vote on how, on whether to stay in the single market or customs union etc, though many brexit campaigners regularly cited Norway as an example of what post-Brexit Britain would look like.

    The Prime Minister then decided to interpret the narrow 52-48 result as a vote to abandon all related institutions rather than a vote for a Norway-style deal, so she went to the electorate in 2017 asking for a mandate to pursue this extreme form of Brexit and they didn't give it to her.

    The government has ignored that and persisted in trying to pursue that extremist route ever since, and parliament has done what the people elected them to do in opposing it.

    They're now going to ask for that mandate again having not gotten it in 2017, time will tell if they get it.


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    #22
    skallywag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,987 ✭✭✭skallywag


    My take at least was that they had to decide whether or not they wanted to remain in the EU.

    Have I the wrong end of the stick?

    Are you saying that the question behind the referendum was confusing, etc?


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    #23
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,868 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    To leave the European Union and it's institutions. Simple. Nothing complicated.






    Pro EU leaders in collusion with the EU institutions.

    The faces change, the tactics stay the same from the EU.



    Nice and Lisbon both overturned.

    The "guarantees" (the nonsense you are presumably going to bring up) given meant NOTHING. Defence and tax are up for grabs now.

    We are screwed.





    Leaving the EU. The trade talks occur AFTER the UK has left which will be an inspirational day for the rest of Europe that finally a country has not had a vote overturned.




    Trade talks occur after UK has left. Invalid point from you because you choose to misinterpret points made.
    Neither Lisbon or Nice were overturned.

    What leave? Should they remain as part of the customs union as promised by Boris Johnson? Should they never talk to a European country? Norway deal? Canada deal? Korea deal? Switzerland deal? These questions matter and the lack of clarity from the question on this is what has caused all the issues since. It is not simple because the message was unclear. Should they remain if they can't deliver all the promised money to the nhs?

    Note we still have a veto on EU decisions for things like tax and defense so it will be the choice of the democratically elected Irish government if these change. How long has it been since Nice/Lisbon. Have any of the guarantees been broken (unlike Brexit guarantees which didn't last 5 minutes after the vote).


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    #24
    liamtech
    Registered Users Posts: 2,293 ✭✭✭liamtech


    skallywag wrote: »
    My take at least was that they had to decide whether or not they wanted to remain in the EU.

    Have I the wrong end of the stick?

    The discussion is on going in the Brexit thread, and i have respectfull requested that perhaps the appropriate posts be transferred over here so as not to dilute the chat on Brexit, as it stands

    In my opinion they didnt know what they were voting for
    • Never clear whether leaving the CM/CU was on the agenda
    • Continued denials that the GFA and the Northern border would be an issue
    • Lies with regard to how much the EU costs britain, with no mention of rebates or reinvestment
    • Blatent careerist policies of Johnson, Patel, Gove, to name just a few

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



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    #25
    settopbox
    Registered Users Posts: 208 ✭✭settopbox


    Would you be asking this question if remain had won the referendum ?


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    #26
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,281 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Nice and Lisbon both overturned.

    The "guarantees" (the nonsense you are presumably going to bring up) given meant NOTHING. Defence and tax are up for grabs now.

    We are screwed.

    What do you think Ireland would look like without membership of the EU?

    Seriously!?
    We are screwed

    give over


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    #27
    Duane Dibbley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭Duane Dibbley


    liamtech wrote: »
    The question and argument for Leaving was not clear at all

    Some suggested they would stay in the CM/CU - some didnt

    All suggested a deal would be a piece of P&^% which it certainly isnt

    Most suggested that Brexit had nothing to do with the GFA or the Northern Border

    And now ALL LEAVERS are adamant that there cannot be a second referendum - because they have been found out as being egotistical out of touch Liars who sold Unicorns to the British people, Without a dogs notion of how to deliver

    - Donald Tusk

    And damn right

    Do you think the reasons to remain in the EU was clear?

    These voters were in the EU since 1993. They were voting on the status quo or to leave.

    If the status quo doesn't suit the people of the UK then i'm not surprised the voted to leave.


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    #28
    liamtech
    Registered Users Posts: 2,293 ✭✭✭liamtech


    settopbox wrote: »
    Would you be asking this question if remain had won the referendum ?

    If remain had lied to the people, in order to push a remain vote, the Eurosceptics would be just as vocal - the difference would be that the UK wouldnt be skating on ice as thin as a piece of paper - and being told its all to the good by BoJo

    IN all honesty look at the referendum and ask yourself did leave behave amicably? did they actually explain with clarity what they were proposing?

    Johnson - Sided with Leave for career reasons, to make a name and end up where he is now - no 10

    DUP - a chance to harden the divide between the north and the south

    Patel, Gove, Mogg, et al - similar to Johnson but with the lame caveat that they were eurosceptic and were obviously gonna take there chance

    All of the above are some what insulated from the Brexit related damage thats to come - unlike there voters

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



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    #29
    neris
    Registered Users Posts: 20,040 ✭✭✭✭neris


    I dont think alot of the leavers understood what they were getting into and what leave actually meant and the economic damage after.


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    #30
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    I heard on James O'Brien in a survey of opinions people just wanted to get brexit done. Which they thought meant passing a vote in the HoC. Some where shocked into silence when they learnt it was only the start of the process.

    So in answer to the question. A large number of people had, have and will continue to have no idea


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    #31
    Duane Dibbley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 418 ✭✭Duane Dibbley


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Wasn't clear at all as to what they were voting for, which is the issue. You had people from the leave campaign, when the single market or customs union came up, saying that Brexit either doesn't mean leaving them, or after Brexit they'll still have access to the single market, with Hannan at one point even saying

    You have people in Remain explaining what leaving the EU ment.

    Its not just the Brexiteers to blame for the result.


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