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Travellers Have Taken Over Carrickphierish Road...

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12357…20

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    #122
    friendlyfun
    Registered Users Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭friendlyfun


    People on the Dunmore Road wouldn't have a halting site near them anyway. They only put them near social housing. Do you notice that lads


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    #123
    azimuth17
    Registered Users Posts: 922 ✭✭✭azimuth17


    Before the city and county amalgamation, the city had three wards and it was decided by councillors that there would be a traveller "location" in each ward. Ballybeg, Williamstown and Carrigphierish. There is an awful lot of begrudgery at play here when instead of looking for solutions to a terrible problem, people suggest that the answer is to visit the problem on another group of homeowners.

    And, no, I don't live on the Dunmore Road.


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    #124
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Crazy thing is for those that really dislike travelers they don't want money spent on them, yet the ironic thing is the only way any society will change is through education and that requires money.....so its catch 22 because of some people's attitudes to travelers.


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    #125
    rekdtangle
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭rekdtangle


    Azatadine wrote: »
    They must have been given assurances (lies) that they would move the halting site or something? Surely? No way could I understand anybody buying a house beside that crowd. Looks like they abandoned the other site that they started building on opposite them.

    Frisby never had planning permission to build anything there. He is in for retention at the moment.

    The new houses beside the halting site are all council houses.


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    #126
    Odelay
    Registered Users Posts: 3,792 ✭✭✭Odelay


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Crazy thing is for those that really dislike travelers they don't want money spent on them, yet the ironic thing is the only way any society will change is through education and that requires money.....so its catch 22 because of some people's attitudes to travelers.

    Oh I want money spent on them, but not thrown at them. In exchange for this they can obey laws and behave themselves. And if they don’t do that I want more money spent on them for prison time and not suspended sentences.


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    #127
    rekdtangle
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭rekdtangle


    friendlyfun wrote: »
    People on the Dunmore Road wouldn't have a halting site near them anyway. They only put them near social housing. Do you notice that lads

    I think they will be getting social housing soon. To quote a city councilor " Yes it's good news in terms of increased development of private estates in the area. Another private estate is being built across the road from Ard Phiaris. We've put an effect block on more social housing estates in that area (Gracedieu). They will lose it when they hear we are fast tracking a social housing estate in the area for next year (Dunmore Rd/Williamstown Rd)."


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    #128
    Tasfasdf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 660 ✭✭✭Tasfasdf


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Crazy thing is for those that really dislike travelers they don't want money spent on them, yet the ironic thing is the only way any society will change is through education and that requires money.....so its catch 22 because of some people's attitudes to travelers.

    How do you educate them if they don't want too? sure I suppose you'll give them more dole to attend and more get out of jail free cards. What utter nonsense of a post.


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    #129
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,997 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    You do not need to be educated to behave in an acceptable manner for the rest of society.

    No doubt it would help and maybe provide some opportunities not presently available.


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    #130
    debok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 814 ✭✭✭debok


    rekdtangle wrote: »
    I think they will be getting social housing soon. To quote a city councilor " Yes it's good news in terms of increased development of private estates in the area. Another private estate is being built across the road from Ard Phiaris. We've put an effect block on more social housing estates in that area (Gracedieu). They will lose it when they hear we are fast tracking a social housing estate in the area for next year (Dunmore Rd/Williamstown Rd)."

    Is there not one there already at ballygunner? And the new housing estate beside the church in ballygunner will have to have percentage of social housing like bishops field and the paddocks already have . Island view was also a council estate. I don't think will people will lose it over social housing. It's the traffic and infrastructure that people will give out about ,the road and sewage, schools can't handle what's there already


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    #131
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Odelay wrote: »
    Oh I want money spent on them, but not thrown at them. In exchange for this they can obey laws and behave themselves. And if they don’t do that I want more money spent on them for prison time and not suspended sentences.

    Prison doesn't fix people or reduce crime long term, education does.
    If prison fixed people and reduced crime then the USA would have the least amount of crime of every country in thr world.

    Instead it has 5% of the world population and 20% of the world's prison population and it continues to have massive social problems. Why? Because they won't fund social and educational services which are the key!


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    #132
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Tasfasdf wrote: »
    How do you educate them if they don't want too? sure I suppose you'll give them more dole to attend and more get out of jail free cards. What utter nonsense of a post.

    Your post represents a flippant and backwards attitude,

    It's not far off the type of comments in respect of black people in the past especially in the USA, yet when education and social support services were put in place things improved. This attitude even existed one time towards Irish people too.

    You want a problem fixed but you are yet another example of a person who doesn't want to provide support structures.
    :rolleyes:


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    #133
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,997 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Prison doesn't fix people or reduce crime long term, education does.
    If prison fixed people and reduced crime then the USA would have the least amount of crime of every country in thr world.

    Instead it has 5% of the world population and 20% of the world's prison population and it continues to have massive social problems. Why? Because they won't fund social and educational services which are the key!

    That is not the sole cause as you well know, nor, some maintain, even the major cause.


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    #134
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,838 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Johnboy1951 wrote:
    That is not the sole cause as you well know, nor, some maintain, even the major cause.


    There's plenty of research into the root causes and the most common issues amongst prison populations, and educational problems is one of the main problems, in particular learning difficulties


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    #135
    Deiseen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,699 ✭✭✭Deiseen


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    There's plenty of research into the root causes and the most common issues amongst prison populations, and educational problems is one of the main problems, in particular learning difficulties

    Would be handy if parents sent the kids to school so


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    #136
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Johnboy1951 wrote: »
    That is not the sole cause as you well know, nor, some maintain, even the major cause.

    It is however a major factor, as is decades of policy's of segregation.

    For example creating specific requirements that benefit while people more then blacks when it came to housing, accessing community services etc. In addition to defunding community and social services that would most benefit poor black and Hispanic neighbourhoods.
    Deiseen wrote: »
    Would be handy if parents sent the kids to school so

    A simplistic answer to a complex issue,

    Education is key to improving any society, but its not as simple as just demanding that people send kids to schools. You need support services in black and you also have to ensure they have the funds to send kids.


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    #137
    Tubbs4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Tubbs4


    Cabaal wrote: »
    It is however a major factor, as is decades of policy's of segregation.

    For example creating specific requirements that benefit while people more then blacks when it came to housing, accessing community services etc. In addition to defunding community and social services that would most benefit poor black and Hispanic neighbourhoods.



    A simplistic answer to a complex issue,

    Education is key to improving any society, but its not as simple as just demanding that people send kids to schools. You need support services in black and you also have to ensure they have the funds to send kids.

    Sorry but comparing travellers to blacks in America. Blacks were taken and made slaves. Then left free with no guidance and little support from their country. They were treated as 2nd class which was not their choice to be in the country.

    Traveller chose to live their way. They had support from the government for years. Option for education but dont avail of it.

    Two very different things where one was forced and the other is a life choice.


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    #138
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,838 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Deiseen wrote: »
    Would be handy if parents sent the kids to school so

    are our schools adequately prepared to teach people with learning difficulties?


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    #139
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    are our schools adequately prepared to teach people with learning difficulties?

    Many parents with kids with learning difficulties would say that they are not. They are understaffed and underfunded in many instances.
    Tubbs4 wrote: »
    Sorry but comparing travellers to blacks in America. Blacks were taken and made slaves. Then left free with no guidance and little support from their country. They were treated as 2nd class which was not their choice to be in the country.

    I'd 100% agree with you, if you were talking about generations just after slavery ended.

    Instead the problem that exist now in the USA with black communities is mainly caused by lack of funding and support and decades of undermining black communities. These problems still exist now.
    Traveller chose to live their way. They had support from the government for years. Option for education but dont avail of it.

    Two very different things where one was forced and the other is a life choice.

    Funny, many people claim black people choose the life they lead, its a choice that they rob and do drugs. These comments still ignoring the underlying causes though.

    Re government funding, have they had funding though?
    Is creating a yard with prefabs or a toilet in a shed really providing adequate support from the government?

    You'll notice I said its support and funding,

    Educating traveler kids needs good support and funding, its simplistic to say that they should just go to school because thats fine for families where the parents have a good education so they can help with maths, history, geography homework after school.

    But with many travelers the level of education for the parents can be very poor so instantly the child is on the back foot with little or no help at home, this means its much harder to keep the child engaged in school.

    Things can and will change in the traveling community, but it won't change overnight and it certainly won't change without support and funding.

    Some families may not change regardless of the support and funding provided, but the very same can be set for non-travellers and we should be careful of tarring an entire community with the same brush.

    For example, I wouldn't tar everyone in Ballybeg as a scumbag, just like I wouldn't tar every traveler as trouble and feck knows I've had experiences with the traveling community stealing and the like.


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    #140
    Johnboy1951
    Registered Users Posts: 13,997 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Tubbs4 wrote: »
    Sorry but comparing travellers to blacks in America. Blacks were taken and made slaves. Then left free with no guidance and little support from their country. They were treated as 2nd class which was not their choice to be in the country.

    Traveller chose to live their way. They had support from the government for years. Option for education but dont avail of it.

    Two very different things where one was forced and the other is a life choice.

    I recall viewing some program or other which pointed out that travellers stem from those who 'hit the road' due to being dispossessed and starved during the famine.
    I doubt it was their choice to be in such a situation, no more that the original African Americans choice was to be slaves.


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    #141
    try_again
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭try_again


    mooseknunkle wrote: »
    JohnC. wrote: »
    Good luck finding a law saying you can't have a horse on the road.

    They have them in Kilkenny.
    If they have such a law in Kilkenny it's definitely not being enforced!


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    #142
    corks finest
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭corks finest


    Deiseen wrote:
    Would be handy if parents sent the kids to school so

    Correct and TBF in Bishoptown one local traveller family do and the kids ( girls ) speak normal ( boys speak and behave like daddy,loud obnoxious,cocky)girls always have impeccable manners ( yes pls,no tnx etc etc) observe this in Dino's every Friday,at least the parents are doing their best to give the kids ableg up


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    #143
    spankmemunkey
    Registered Users Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭spankmemunkey


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Crazy thing is for those that really dislike travelers they don't want money spent on them, yet the ironic thing is the only way any society will change is through education and that requires money.....so its catch 22 because of some people's attitudes to travelers.

    I actually quoted that to one of the politicians knocking on my door that the draw down for allocation of funds for travellers wasn't drawn down by a long shot.

    But ye can just say here's loads of services for you now go do what you want, there needs to be an agreement that we will uphold the law look after the area and services we have been given for free.

    and yes as another poster says education is key too if they fall short of certain levels of education then send them to be educated the same way settled young people on the dole are being sent to do courses and if they don't services are cancelled, why is it for one section of society and not for others? another example of one law for travellers and another for settled people


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    #144
    robtri
    Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    sorry but they are not in need of special needs resources.

    Education is available to them the same as everyone else in this country

    they decide not to use the educational system
    that is their choice

    What is needed is more resources to social services to help them fit in more with the settled community and for the settled community to be more accepting of them

    but above all else they need to follow the same laws of the land every one else does...


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    #145
    spankmemunkey
    Registered Users Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭spankmemunkey


    debok wrote: »
    So the rich in the ivory tower are the problem, the poor down the road are the problem, the travellers are the problem, the people on the dunmore road are the problem. Jaysus


    Well straight away you've misquoted me, i didn't say the rich in thee Ivory Towers, I said the people in the Ivory Towers, referencing to politicians who make laws for people in society that doesn't effect their lives directly.

    The social and political system is wrong, Politics is defunct.

    Promises promises promises, take up your seat, way to complex to implement radical change, way too PC to upset people make real change and difference cos if you say something in politics that's anyway against the grain your racist or against this group or that, objective keep your seat stay in power try make some populist changes here and there so you get voted in next time around, get to the door canvassing and ask them why they didn't deal with the issues the last time they knocked at the door when they were looking for votes and you'll get blah blah blah blah blah,

    The political system is wrong, I don't have the answers but the way its working now is wrong.

    Don't tackle the problem kick it down the road

    There's no incentive for people to work cos its so cushy, give them houses and all of these sort of benefits do you think they'll take the hard working minimum wage jobs and lose the cushy number?? not a chance


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    #146
    marlin vs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,630 ✭✭✭marlin vs


    Was the illegal dwelling moved from the halting site on the Carrickpherrish Rd.


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    #147
    Azatadine
    Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭Azatadine


    Still there yesterday anyway, along with all the other associated van's, caravans and filth all over the footpaths.


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    #148
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,036 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    They were adding to it yesterday.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #149
    vriesmays
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    robtri wrote: »
    sorry but they are not in need of special needs resources.

    Education is available to them the same as everyone else in this country

    they decide not to use the educational system
    that is their choice

    What is needed is more resources to social services to help them fit in more with the settled community and for the settled community to be more accepting of them

    but above all else they need to follow the same laws of the land every one else does...

    80% travellers on the dole.


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    #150
    Azatadine
    Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭Azatadine


    StringerBell wrote: »
    They were adding to it yesterday.

    Adding what? More caravans?


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    #151
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,838 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    vriesmays wrote:
    80% travellers on the dole.


    Who d employ them?


This discussion has been closed.
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