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Ireland Versus New Zealand Build Up Thread

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭raclle


    @Yeah_Right doing a good job winding everyone up :D

    so basically it all comes down to us holding onto possession as much as possible and the rush defence.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,763 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    raclle wrote: »
    @Yeah_Right doing a good job winding everyone up :D

    so basically it all comes down to us holding onto possession as much as possible and the rush defence.

    Not a bit wound up ( I am well capable of doing that to myself)

    I do detect a desperate effort by Yeah_Right to convince him/herself. :)


  • Posts: 12,548 [Deleted User]


    Niallof9 wrote: »
    have you teleported back in time like all the other pundits?

    https://www.the42.ie/kiwi-pundits-write-off-irelands-quarter-final-hopes-4855086-Oct2019/

    Its hardly vintage New Zealand. Personal wise Ireland have nothing to fear imo. Go through the names down the years...full of super stars. We were in awe. Thats all gone for all the teams. Some of the tours Ireland went on in the so called golden generation were piss ups. 2012 ended in farce but Kidney was on his last legs. Joe for all his faults has changed the landscape and we've won 2 out of the last 3. And the other 2 were close calls with hugely questionable decisions.

    We are boring and all that yeah. Out of form. But its not like before. Not saying we can win or anything but its not like the bad old days for us at all.
    Our main opponent on Saturday is the top 2 inches, never got to a semi and all that. there's inexperience in that Kiwi side. Potential class maybe, but Goodhue, Reece, Mounga, Bridge all have alot to prove. Retallick injury. Aging Read ala best. Cane a version of VDF and not a mcCaw. Barett is the one danger to us really as he walks into any of the NZ teams of the past.

    Alot of arrogance on show and its sort of why people like myself who used to love New Zealand as a kid actually hate it as a rugby nation now.

    Bit of ****ing humility wouldn't go amiss.

    I would love, love it if we beat you guys in a competitive game.Over marketed, Dirty tactics, cheating, questionable pre match advantage and arrogance all tarnish a once loved rugby country. Love it.

    The tactics Joe uses (as much as i criticise and hate them) are perfect for New Zelaand cause you guys can get brought into a arm wrestle. You want to prove that yes you can go around, but you can also go through, maul, scrum, ruck. Its your one weakness as a team imo. If you actually just stuck to playing outrageously...forgetting about earning the right or trying to beat misconceptions like the maul or scrum issues you'd be unbeatable. You have the Kilkenny thing of just being naturally good at rugby through a number of factors we can never replicate - numbers playing, and the age profile at take up. The GAA means we will never compete consistently.

    I know alot of what you are saying is tongue in cheek or maybe i'm mixing up swiwi from before.

    You didn't get the memo?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


    Basil3 wrote: »
    You didn't get the memo?

    that he's winding us up yeah maybe i think i recall but its hard to tell with you guys, you'd sell/concuss your granny for a test win.

    So its my reply then to the kiwi journos.

    im going a bit ott and on the defence but in pure rugby terms that concussion gate test and owens decision leave a stain on my mind.

    we are so close, but so far and there is nobody like NZ to remind you of that.

    The English, Russian and Japan game were so bad and chilling this is where all the doom is from. And days like that 2002,2010 and 2012 test where you wake up early excitement in your belly...a blanket wrapped around you, a cup of joe, a bowl of kellogs, only to get a sick feeling after the tries come rolling in for the men in black. Or hopes dashed like 2001. But i think they are relics now really.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    i suppose it goes without saying.....but the first 20 mins are crucial if we can weather the storm we're in with a chance


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,469 ✭✭✭kuang1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Looking at that new attacking setup the ABs rely on getting the ball into the midfield pod and then quickly recycling before the rush defense resets. With Nige we can slow that ball right down and completely neutralise this approach. Or we just don't rush the whole line when they have a ruck in the wide channels. Plenty of options and I'm sure Joe has it figured out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭jammiedodgers


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    He ain't going to finish it though. He'll be lucky to see half time.

    I feel like we should set up a competition to see how many people get carded/banned replying to your posts over the weekend :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,617 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    Feeling even more confident after seeing those teams. We're going to crush the Irish. There's no attacking threat that Irish team unless you count boring the ABs to death with phase after phase after phase after phase after phase of one out hit ups going no where.
    Probably the best way to deal with that powder puff team you've put out. No point wasting energy running around them when you can just run over them. :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,760 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Well at least we can't say that the best XV was not available to us.

    If this XV can't do it then there will at least be no unanswered questions afterwards.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,763 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Well at least we can't say that the best XV was not available to us.

    If this XV can't do it then there will at least be no unanswered questions afterwards.

    Exactly...we have arrived at a QF exactly the way we wanted to. Key players available, having revealed very little of our plays in the groups.
    Perfect ambush territory.

    Beauty never trumped brains in Chez Francie!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,205 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Probably the best way to deal with that powder puff team you've put out. No point wasting energy running around them when you can just run over them. :pac:

    It's kind of hard to run over anyone when you are standing still when you get the ball.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Exactly...we have arrived at a QF exactly the way we wanted to. Key players available, having revealed very little of our plays in the groups.
    Perfect ambush territory.

    Beauty never trumped brains in Chez Francie!

    I think Coner would have started instead of POM.
    Still, it's not bad. Only one, or half a man down, and avoided the Africans. It's what I hoped for months ago after all this shadow boxing and people taking warm-up games and group games (all much ado about nothing) seriously was done.
    So kudos to Joe. 9.5 out of 10 so far.


  • Administrators Posts: 55,100 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Ireland by 7.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,493 ✭✭✭Dave_The_Sheep


    awec wrote: »
    Ireland by 7.

    If we're in front, I'm hoping by at least 8. I'm not sure my heart could take a one score game going into the final quarter.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,017 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Think we can ambush them again. We’ve been written off by all and sundry. We’re pretty much at full strength minus Leavy. There were signs of our big players getting a bit of form against Samoa. NZ haven’t had a proper test since SA last month. Their media is already looking ahead to England. We have proper impact off the bench. My only worry is BB coming in from deep off turnover ball. If we can stop him, I think we can do them. Remember he was the difference in the 2016 game. Once bitten, twice shy. I’m going with Ireland by 5.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,741 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Beauden Barrett posted a video of him having dinner with Shane Lowry on his Instagram story.

    I'm torn between branding Shane as a traitor, or being a secret agent considering he brought a signed Rory Best jersey with him.


  • Subscribers Posts: 43,180 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Beauden Barrett posted a video of him having dinner with Shane Lowry on his Instagram story.

    I'm torn between branding Shane as a traitor, or being a secret agent considering he brought a signed Rory Best jersey with him.

    two ex GAA players shooting the breeze :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Gamb!t


    Exactly...we have arrived at a QF exactly the way we wanted to. Key players available, having revealed very little of our plays in the groups.
    Perfect ambush territory.

    Beauty never trumped brains in Chez Francie!
    I keep hearing this but is there any truth in it or we are just out of form?


  • Posts: 522 [Deleted User]


    Gamb!t wrote: »
    I keep hearing this but is there any truth in it or we are just out of form?

    Tbh this suggestion (keeping our cards close to our chest) makes me sad. I remember it bring trotted out and clung on to in 2007 and 2011 especially.

    I still think we can win tomorrow. Come on Ireland!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,669 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Gamb!t wrote: »
    I keep hearing this but is there any truth in it or we are just out of form?

    We are off form a bit, I don’t think it’s as far off as people think though. We haven’t got a pile of secret moves that we’ve been holding back but we will have certain moves that were developed with certain oppositions in mind.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,763 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Gamb!t wrote: »
    I keep hearing this but is there any truth in it or we are just out of form?

    We'll know around lunch time tomorrow.

    I think there is definitely a sense that we have targeted the QF's (certainly fans have, so it would be totally remiss if management haven't)

    I expect Joe will have studied areas to execute specific plays. Remains to be seen if we can establish a foothold to deploy them.

    And yes I agree on the 'form' thing too. But 'form' can change, particularly in the game of rugby.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,955 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    I think we will know how this game isgoing after 20 mins

    If Ireland are still in the game after 20 mins then who knows. NZ are going to try and blow us out of the water in the first 20.....that will be the plan. Build a big score and then leave us trying to come from behind. Something that this Irish team is not hugely successful at doing


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 424 ✭✭Skyfloater


    Murray to run with the ball every time for the first 20 mins, no passes, no kicks. It's straight out of the Australian play book in their record win over the ABs*, and something he hasn't been doing for ages. Creates some doubt in their defense.

    *credit Squidge rugby


  • Posts: 12,548 [Deleted User]


    Just reading through the player ratings on stuff.co.nz here:

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/rwc-2019-japan/116660969/all-blacks-v-ireland-how-the-teams-rate-for-their-rugby-world-cup-quarterfinal

    Some funny ratings for the Irish, imo. Hugely underrate the likes of Henderson, while overrating Stander.

    Some of my favourite snippets:
    10. Johnny Sexton: Still deserves to be called the world's best No 10 but might pass that mantle to Mo'unga after Saturday night. 8.5

    and
    Verdict: Don't believe the bulldust about these two teams being evenly matched. The reason the All Blacks were beaten last year is they were poorly selected and comprehensively outcoached, with a bit of fatigue thrown in as well. Selection-wise they look spot on for this fixture and tiredness clearly won't be a factor, so if Steve Hansen and Ian Foster have come up with the right plans it's going to be an All Blacks victory.

    A lot of confidence coming out of NZ. It's like these people can't remember 1991-2007. I'm not worried about Ireland per se, it's just more that all too familiar feeling of things going wrong in the knockouts at the RWC. Back-to-back victories still hasn't got rid of that nagging fear.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9




  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


    Forgive me for i am getting hyped. I'd like to alpologise for all my bluster on here the past few weeks. I talk alot of nonsense like us all. I love Ireland and think we can be the best in the World. My criticism of Joe Schmidt is pure folly and is foolish. Many of you have come on with great riposte to us critics. I was pretty shameful after the defeat to Japan. This is it, this is our time. There is no space for negative souls like myself.

    We all know the Shankly quote, about life and death and sport. To people like him it was more important. To normal people its a flippant remark. To a sports person it is their life. It’s what he grew up doing, living, breathing. Marketing and the social media saturation and dour quotes have killed some of the mystery and the Shankly’s. Yet sport still stirs. Shankly’s abound.

    Rugby is a different gravy in some parts. Mistrusted, disowned, misunderstood. You may hate rugby, Breffni, the marketing, the rules, the jocks, Irelands call, sport or life itself. This Saturday sit yourself down, stir your tea. Sip your early pint or cool the porridge. Morning mindfulness. Turn on the telly, to the match. Watch a little. You’ll be better for it. Forget about the talk of elites, of posh people, of marketing taglines and teams of us. Drink in the joy of Irish people striving for their Island. Admire the game for what it is, a normal sport.

    For Its only our Island, North and South, sitting westerly in the Atlantic, cold and windswept, warmed by firesides and stories, throughout the rugged green lands, taking on another rugged small island , with their own different story. Green versus Black. Might versus Might. Gladiators at our disposal, but human beings beating underneath.

    First things first, rugby is not the people’s sport. It’s not even the World’s sport. It’s just a game followed and played by women, children and men in all the counties of Ireland. You can’t put jumpers down for goalposts. It has hard rules and hard hits. Neil Francis exists in a rarefied air. Never have i heard these words uttered in any club game or ground.

    Its only a sport, not a barometer of class or creed or faith. Tip, tag, touch, amateur, semi pro, professional. All with the same muck on their faces and fires in their bellies. Big people, small people, fast people, slow people. Its a distraction, a dollop of passion in a world where we spend more time in work than at home, pay the bills, fix the car, dream of summer breaks. Sport all across this Island enables people to dream. Locally, nationally. Sport isn’t for one or the other, it’s for everybody. While we erode it with marketing slogans and taglines, thousands of innocent children lace up their boots, and cheered on by the mammy or the daddy. It’s still too much centred around certain centres, there is no denying it. Yet a win on the World Stage would do wonders.

    The IRFU surely understand that St.Michael’s can not become a sole nursery. Yet James Ryan, a Michael’s man, his grandfather a man of the rising. Perceptions, cliches, contradictions of identity abound in Irish life. Names that resound through Irish history and modern life like Cusack, DeValera, Canning, O’Sullivan, MacCauley played the oval ball. Men like Richard Harris spoke in breathless terms of Irish rugby. His heroes were the rugby men of of his city of Limerick. Christy Moore propped and pored the porter up in Bective. People like Ewan MacKenna talk of elites. But i took the field with plumbers, bankers, foreign men, gay men, selfish men, selfless men, workers, slackers, jacklers, tacklers, talkers, moaners, wingers, singers losers and winners. I was a ruck inspector myself.

    Rugby, like hockey and cricket is played on an all Ireland basis. Its a building block to a brighter and better future. It’s shown that we can live and build in peace. North and South united in sport. Compromises, of course. But its worth it as it banishes the brexit blues and the awkwardness of partition. There may never be a United Ireland in name, but if there is, a Irish rugby team winning a World Cup would surely be at the heart of it. At least we will be united in passion and distracted at least for awhile.

    For me personally, rugby has got me through some very dark parts of my life. The camaraderie, the spirt, the suffering, the challenge. Tears shed as I questioned the very meaning of who I was. It was just luck that i played rugby no other reason. 80 minutes battle fare, changed the narrative, shifted the mood.

    There is more important things then sport, yes, but it is the great distraction. The dollop of passion and pride. And worth. One we all need at some time or another. Watch it with friends, loved ones. Roar it on. Cheer. Cry. Hug. Sing. Feel the passion of the Island come through your veins. Its only for a small while. Eighty minutes to put the talk of elites or society away. All that nonsense drifts away. These are 23 men fighting for their Island, for glory on the global stage. They chose nothing for their lives, only dedicated themselves since small children to one pursuit and passion. How does Ewan Mackenna, an avowed sports lover hate that?

    As Richard Harris said, these are our square jawed gladiators, taking to the pit with the green on their backs. They’d do it for free like some of their fathers before them, but they don’t and so what of it. Some of them will go out on their shields tomorrow, their bodies broken, their hearts and lungs burnt. I stand up for them, my fellow Irish man.

    Hate it fear it, despise it. But know by doing so all you are doing is hating on your fellow Irish who strive to entertain us. Are you not entertained as the great Maximus once cried. There’s no pleasing everybody. That is ok. Don’t watch, turn off. Switch off. Nobody is forcing rugby on you. Its a sport. Just a sport. After the whistle, after the blood and guts, the hand shakes and the muttered words, us mortals will shuffle on our coil back to the taxes and the work. Win with humility, lose with dignity, or is it the other way around. Why cannot it be both. Tomorrow we will be better for it all.

    The Ewan McKenna’s of the World will sit in their dens, waitng and watching. For what only they truly know.

    Lets get behind Ireland as they take on the might of the Rugby World. As Brendan Behan once said if it was raining soup the Irish would go out with forks. If the Irish rugby team wins or loses many people would come out with their fork equivalents. We are a curious stubborn people. Don’t listen to the Ewan Mackenna’s and the haters, the moaners, the gougers or the hypers. Listen to the call of your country and the passion it can provoke.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭D.Q


    Niallof9 wrote: »
    Aragorn's Speech at the (all) Blacks Gate


    For Joe-do


    AHHHHHH


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,205 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Basil3 wrote: »
    A lot of confidence coming out of NZ. It's like these people can't remember 1991-2007. I'm not worried about Ireland per se, it's just more that all too familiar feeling of things going wrong in the knockouts at the RWC. Back-to-back victories still hasn't got rid of that nagging fear.

    I remember that era. Thats when we used to beat the Irish without even trying :D


    Henderson is an interesting one. He isn't really rated in the SH by fans and pundits. Its probably because he hasn't ever had a monster game against them and a lot of people down there don't pay any attention to the 6 Nations or European club rugby. They might watch the finals or the semi-finals but Ulster don't generally feature.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 424 ✭✭Blud


    Niallof9 wrote: »
    Forgive me for i am getting hyped. I'd like to alpologise for all my bluster on here the past few weeks. I talk alot of nonsense like us all. I love Ireland and think we can be the best in the World. My criticism of Joe Schmidt is pure folly and is foolish. Many of you have come on with great riposte to us critics. I was pretty shameful after the defeat to Japan. This is it, this is our time. There is no space for negative souls like myself.

    We all know the Shankly quote, about life and death and sport. To people like him it was more important. To normal people its a flippant remark. To a sports person it is their life. It’s what he grew up doing, living, breathing. Marketing and the social media saturation and dour quotes have killed some of the mystery and the Shankly’s. Yet sport still stirs. Shankly’s abound.

    Rugby is a different gravy in some parts. Mistrusted, disowned, misunderstood. You may hate rugby, Breffni, the marketing, the rules, the jocks, Irelands call, sport or life itself. This Saturday sit yourself down, stir your tea. Sip your early pint or cool the porridge. Morning mindfulness. Turn on the telly, to the match. Watch a little. You’ll be better for it. Forget about the talk of elites, of posh people, of marketing taglines and teams of us. Drink in the joy of Irish people striving for their Island. Admire the game for what it is, a normal sport.

    For Its only our Island, North and South, sitting westerly in the Atlantic, cold and windswept, warmed by firesides and stories, throughout the rugged green lands, taking on another rugged small island , with their own different story. Green versus Black. Might versus Might. Gladiators at our disposal, but human beings beating underneath.

    First things first, rugby is not the people’s sport. It’s not even the World’s sport. It’s just a game followed and played by women, children and men in all the counties of Ireland. You can’t put jumpers down for goalposts. It has hard rules and hard hits. Neil Francis exists in a rarefied air. Never have i heard these words uttered in any club game or ground.

    Its only a sport, not a barometer of class or creed or faith. Tip, tag, touch, amateur, semi pro, professional. All with the same muck on their faces and fires in their bellies. Big people, small people, fast people, slow people. Its a distraction, a dollop of passion in a world where we spend more time in work than at home, pay the bills, fix the car, dream of summer breaks. Sport all across this Island enables people to dream. Locally, nationally. Sport isn’t for one or the other, it’s for everybody. While we erode it with marketing slogans and taglines, thousands of innocent children lace up their boots, and cheered on by the mammy or the daddy. It’s still too much centred around certain centres, there is no denying it. Yet a win on the World Stage would do wonders.

    The IRFU surely understand that St.Michael’s can not become a sole nursery. Yet James Ryan, a Michael’s man, his grandfather a man of the rising. Perceptions, cliches, contradictions of identity abound in Irish life. Names that resound through Irish history and modern life like Cusack, DeValera, Canning, O’Sullivan, MacCauley played the oval ball. Men like Richard Harris spoke in breathless terms of Irish rugby. His heroes were the rugby men of of his city of Limerick. Christy Moore propped and pored the porter up in Bective. People like Ewan MacKenna talk of elites. But i took the field with plumbers, bankers, foreign men, gay men, selfish men, selfless men, workers, slackers, jacklers, tacklers, talkers, moaners, wingers, singers losers and winners. I was a ruck inspector myself.

    Rugby, like hockey and cricket is played on an all Ireland basis. Its a building block to a brighter and better future. It’s shown that we can live and build in peace. North and South united in sport. Compromises, of course. But its worth it as it banishes the brexit blues and the awkwardness of partition. There may never be a United Ireland in name, but if there is, a Irish rugby team winning a World Cup would surely be at the heart of it. At least we will be united in passion and distracted at least for awhile.

    For me personally, rugby has got me through some very dark parts of my life. The camaraderie, the spirt, the suffering, the challenge. Tears shed as I questioned the very meaning of who I was. It was just luck that i played rugby no other reason. 80 minutes battle fare, changed the narrative, shifted the mood.

    There is more important things then sport, yes, but it is the great distraction. The dollop of passion and pride. And worth. One we all need at some time or another. Watch it with friends, loved ones. Roar it on. Cheer. Cry. Hug. Sing. Feel the passion of the Island come through your veins. Its only for a small while. Eighty minutes to put the talk of elites or society away. All that nonsense drifts away. These are 23 men fighting for their Island, for glory on the global stage. They chose nothing for their lives, only dedicated themselves since small children to one pursuit and passion. How does Ewan Mackenna, an avowed sports lover hate that?

    As Richard Harris said, these are our square jawed gladiators, taking to the pit with the green on their backs. They’d do it for free like some of their fathers before them, but they don’t and so what of it. Some of them will go out on their shields tomorrow, their bodies broken, their hearts and lungs burnt. I stand up for them, my fellow Irish man.

    Hate it fear it, despise it. But know by doing so all you are doing is hating on your fellow Irish who strive to entertain us. Are you not entertained as the great Maximus once cried. There’s no pleasing everybody. That is ok. Don’t watch, turn off. Switch off. Nobody is forcing rugby on you. Its a sport. Just a sport. After the whistle, after the blood and guts, the hand shakes and the muttered words, us mortals will shuffle on our coil back to the taxes and the work. Win with humility, lose with dignity, or is it the other way around. Why cannot it be both. Tomorrow we will be better for it all.

    The Ewan McKenna’s of the World will sit in their dens, waitng and watching. For what only they truly know.

    Lets get behind Ireland as they take on the might of the Rugby World. As Brendan Behan once said if it was raining soup the Irish would go out with forks. If the Irish rugby team wins or loses many people would come out with their fork equivalents. We are a curious stubborn people. Don’t listen to the Ewan Mackenna’s and the haters, the moaners, the gougers or the hypers. Listen to the call of your country and the passion it can provoke.

    As a man once said to a priest, that's the type of sh!te that sickens my hole.


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