Ireland Versus New Zealand Build Up Thread

17-10-2019 09:15AM

Really looking forward to this now. Can Irish players that are past their prime dig deep and pull a big performance out of the bag? Will NZ's inexperience be exposed?

It's a real clash of styles. Safe, proven selection and playing style vs high risk/high reward selection and playing style. One team trying to play rugby, the other trying to stop them from playing.

17-10-2019 09:15AM

Tomtom364 wrote: »

People give POM this kinda stick all the time.
Usually the excuse given to write off his outstanding performances ala November '18 all blacks win as him only having singular stand out performances on these types of occasions

Surely if that reason to write him off regularly is true then this is exact the game you would then actually want him in...

He needs a big game. Murray and Sexton got a lot of stick for our dip in form but POM has yet to show that return to form.

sydthebeat · 17-10-2019 09:21AM

Basil3 wrote: »

Really looking forward to this now. Can Irish players that are past their prime dig deep and pull a big performance out of the bag? Will NZ's inexperience be exposed?

It's a real clash of styles. Safe, proven selection and playing style vs high risk/high reward selection and playing style. One team trying to play rugby, the other trying to stop them from playing.

Were we trying to stop you playing rugby while we put 40 points on ye in Chicago?

pc7 · 17-10-2019 09:24AM

I don't care if it is the most boring, dull as dishwater, snoozefest (I doubt it will be any of these things), playing with arms tied behind us, once we win! The media, Steve, Stuart, Eddie Jones et al can moan away. Come on Ireland!!

Still feeling worryingly positive!

Niallof9 · 17-10-2019 09:28AM

photo.php?fbid=10156727084760765&set=a.487803060764&type=3&theater

I think it was all an elaborate plot. We can do it. Like was Henshaw really injured!

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2019 09:30AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Were we trying to stop you playing rugby while we put 40 points on ye in Chicago?

It's like Pat Spillane in the GAA, 'please stand back and let us play the beautiful game'.

Yeh right Pat!

17-10-2019 09:33AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Were we trying to stop you playing rugby while we put 40 points on ye in Chicago?

That match has about as much relevance as the All Blacks beating you 60-0 a few years ago. The Irish game will be based around defensive patterns and controlling the ball when in possession. They will not take risks in attack, because they know any errors could be capitalised on.

I could be completely wrong, but I doubt it. Schmidt's selection says as much.

Of course, they still have every chance of beating the AB's.

dregin · 17-10-2019 09:43AM

So excited for this, I jumped straight to the weekend and thought today was Friday. Ireland by 10. John Hayes to come out of retirement for the semi and score a hat trick. Sploosh.

ironingbored · 17-10-2019 10:12AM

Watching the Nov-2018 test again.

First 10 minutes Toner our best player.

thebaz · 17-10-2019 10:12AM

no real surprises in team , delighted Ruddock made the bench - POM must deliver the game of his life , and prove his doubters wrong (big game too from Robbie H - in fact big game from everyone) - if we can live with the All Blacks for for first 20 , get in ther faces and dictate the game to them , we can do it , if All Blacks run in a couple of early tries and we are chasing the game , it will be a long day.

FrancieBrady · 17-10-2019 10:27AM

thebaz wrote: »

no real surprises in team , delighted Ruddock made the bench - POM must deliver the game of his life , and prove his doubters wrong (big game too from Robbie H - in fact big game from everyone) - if we can live with the All Blacks for for first 20 , get in ther faces and dictate the game to them , we can do it , if All Blacks run in a couple of early tries and we are chasing the game , it will be a long day.

Yep. First 20 minutes are critical.
We will know very quickly if we are in with a shout.

sydthebeat · 17-10-2019 10:30AM

i much prefer Robbie Henshaw protecting Ringroses inside shoulder in this game than Aki.

Bundee has shown that he can be caught focusing too much on the inside, either to make a dominant hit, or simply getting caught blitzing when the rest of the back line are drifting. Ringrose and henshaw have a good understanding in there, and garry has no issue trusting robbie on his inside.
Thats vitally important when playing against this AB backline with BB at 15.
BB often pops up between the 12 and 13 as either a strike runner or as a second play maker.
Often Mounga actually skips his 12 to get the ball straight to BB, and in turn BB skips the 13 to get the ball straight to the wing.
When that happens we need a very fluid, vocal and trusting center partnership... and i think we have the best one starting.

17-10-2019 10:33AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

i much prefer Robbie Henshaw protecting ringroses inside shoulder in this game than Aki.

Bundee has shown that he can be caught focusing too much on the inside, either to make a dominant hit, or simply getting caught blitzing when the rest of the back line are drifting. Ringroe and henshaw have a good understanding in there, and garry has no issue trusting robbie on his inside.
Thats vitally important when playing aginst this AB backline with BB at 15.
BB often pops up between the 12 and 13 as either a strike runner or as a second play maker.
Often Mounga actually skips his 12 to get the ball straight to BB, and in turn BB skips teh 13 to get the ball straight to the wing.
When that happens we need a very fluid, vocal and trusting center partnership... and i think we have the best one starting.

The midfield is a fascinating one. What do Ireland do if something happens to Henshaw or Ringrose? Who will slot into the centres?

On top of this, you're probably going to have a fresh Sonny Bill coming onto the pitch for the All Blacks in the second half against a guy who has hardly played the last few months, and will surely be feeling the pinch.

Niallof9 · 17-10-2019 10:48AM

This is going to be so tough. Best of luck to the players, i hope there is no trees left at their training base.

15 as expected. There will be no deviance from our usual gameplan and its going to be a bloody war.

Jack Goodhue, Reece, Bridge we shouldn't fear players like that. Still learning the ropes etc.

Target Reece at will.

Like good players but lets not kid ourselves, they aren't in the same league as Bunce, Umagu, Mauger, Smith..at least yet.

There is less to fear these days. Look at the sides in those days we were getting pumped by New Zealand. Its night and day.

We need the biggest games of their entire rugby lives from Murray,Kearney, POM, Henderson, Henshaw, Earls, Stander. All would have question marks from this past year either from injury or form.Sexton will sex. Our pack is mighty.

pc7 · 17-10-2019 10:50AM

Niallof9 wrote: »

15 as expected. There will be no deviance from our usual gameplan and its going to be a bloody war.

Seriously I cannot freaking wait, really hope it lives up to the hype. It really is a 'dare to dream' moment for Irish Rugby fans. Lots of hurt over the years, time to break that hoodoo and get into a semi. I really am giddy.

Danthemanhere · 17-10-2019 10:50AM

Hey, some good chat here. On form, New Zealand will win eay but you'll never know. We need some players to step up and have the games of their lives. Like when we beat New Zealand before. O'Mahony was incredible. We need performances like that. It's like opposites meeting here. New Zealand are adventurous in attack and obviously in selection. Ireland are conservative in selection and game plan. Let's see who comes out on top.

17-10-2019 10:54AM

Basil3 wrote: »

The midfield is a fascinating one. What do Ireland do if something happens to Henshaw or Ringrose? Who will slot into the centres?

On top of this, you're probably going to have a fresh Sonny Bill coming onto the pitch for the All Blacks in the second half against a guy who has hardly played the last few months, and will surely be feeling the pinch.

Larmour has slotted in off the bench a few times

andymx11 · 17-10-2019 11:00AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Larmour has slotted in off the bench a few times

But it will be Earls

sydthebeat · 17-10-2019 11:03AM

Basil3 wrote: »

The midfield is a fascinating one. What do Ireland do if something happens to Henshaw or Ringrose? Who will slot into the centres?

On top of this, you're probably going to have a fresh Sonny Bill coming onto the pitch for the All Blacks in the second half against a guy who has hardly played the last few months, and will surely be feeling the pinch.

like most of this kiwi team, SBW doesnt hold the frightening aura he once had.

This year he has been playing as a bosh merchant... averaging just 3.6 m per carry (the lowest of all your options by a good bit)

He is always likely to do something stupid, though coming from the bench he wont be as tired so less chance of a brain fart.

Im glad its not crotty and ALB we're facing, i think thats your best 12 / 13 combo. Goodhue has been ripping it up at club level but i dont think hes been put under any serious pressure yet at test level.

raclle · 17-10-2019 11:04AM

unpopular opinion but ive always been on the fence with Earls as he's got big mistakes in him.

Danthemanhere · 17-10-2019 11:04AM

Why isn't Farrell on the bench?

sydthebeat · 17-10-2019 11:05AM

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Why isn't Farrell on the bench?

because that would leave us with no back three cover.

larmour can cover 11, 14, 15 and 13 at a stretch

17-10-2019 11:05AM

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Hey, some good chat here. On form, New Zealand will win eay but you'll never know. We need some players to step up and have the games of their lives. Like when we beat New Zealand before. O'Mahony was incredible. We need performances like that. It's like opposites meeting here. New Zealand are adventurous in attack and obviously in selection. Ireland are conservative in selection and game plan. Let's see who comes out on top.

I know we're not showing up great but this current NZ side have showed nothing to suggest they should win easy on form either. Look through that list of names, it's not the vintage of the past.

WeleaseWoderick · 17-10-2019 11:06AM

Excited now that the teams are named. Saturday morning can't come soon enough!

I am becoming more and more confident the closer the game gets too. I think our pack has the ability to match theirs and agree with other posters that the NZ backline isn't of the same class (yet) of the 2011 or 2015 winning teams.

Only 3 changes to our starting 15 compared to the team that started against them in 2018 and arguably all are improvements (Murray for Marmion, Henshaw for Aki, and Henderson for Toner).

Form is something that is spoken about a lot but I feel we've been preparing for this game (albeit a couple of rounds sooner than hoped) for the past 2 years. The form of NZ has also quickly been forgotten with the win over South Africa. Prior to that, they had a pretty poor Rugby Championship and have only played Canada & Namibia since.

Niallof9 · 17-10-2019 11:08AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

like most of this kiwi team, SBW doesnt hold the frightening aura he once had.

This year he has been playing as a bosh merchant... averaging just 3.6 m per carry (the lowest of all your options by a good bit)

He is always likely to do something stupid, though coming from the bench he wont be as tired so less chance of a brain fart.

Im glad its not crotty and ALB we're facing, i think thats your best 12 / 13 combo. Goodhue has been ripping it up at club level but i dont think hes been put under any serious pressure yet at test level.

Yeah if we take all blinkers off this team is nowhere near the teams of old imo. With Retallick only coming back, Savea, Smith at times, Barrett, Read (past it maybe?) how many bar those would be anywhere near the great New Zealand teams that regularly scared us at least one in three.

Most of the fear is coming from how we have performed not the hard cold realities. We have World Class players s they do. Reece, Goodhue, Bridge, Richie Mo'unga are all good but are they great..and how experienced are they?

My worry comes from the weight of history, tactics tiring us and our form..not necessarily personnel.Like they are clear favorites imo, but its because of other factors.

Danthemanhere · 17-10-2019 11:09AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

because that would leave us with no back three cover.

larmour can cover 11, 14, 15 and 13 at a stretch

Beirne can cover the back row. Risky but it's also risky starting Henshaw with only Larmour as his cover.

Danthemanhere · 17-10-2019 11:12AM

AdamD wrote: »

I know we're not showing up great but this current NZ side have showed nothing to suggest they should win easy on form either. Look through that list of names, it's not the vintage of the past.

They've only played 3 games in the World Cup, they've scored 157 points and conceded 22. We played 4 and only scored 121 and conceded 27. We've lost to Japan, they beat South Africa. Their form is far better than ours anyway.

aloooof · 17-10-2019 11:16AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

because that would leave us with no back three cover.

larmour can cover 11, 14, 15 and 13 at a stretch

He even slotted in at 12 against Samoa.

17-10-2019 11:18AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

because that would leave us with no back three cover.

larmour can cover 11, 14, 15 and 13 at a stretch

Ringrose and Carbery can cover those positions

thebaz · 17-10-2019 11:18AM

andymx11 wrote: »

But it will be Earls

I'm a massive Larmour fan , but if Henshaw goes off, would prefer Carberry to come in and play with 2 10's as such - Earls is not an international level centre - Carberry/Sexton may work , if we were forced into such

Ireland Versus New Zealand Build Up Thread

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