The Strike is over. What happens now?

Say my name · 09-10-2019 03:03PM

Muckit wrote: »

Sure us beef farmers being doing it for time immemorial.

Don't I know and grazing the neighbours grass for craic.
And then don't bother answering the phone when someone rings to inform them they're out again.

I know all about it.

arctic8dave · 09-10-2019 03:10PM

Why all against culling calves anyway if there worth nothing to no one surely the quicker they be got rid of the better. Yes all this bull**** of being sustainable & all is only so processors can take more of a margin at more cost past back to the farmer no?
Ethics won't matter when the economics of it don't add up.

Water John · 09-10-2019 04:05PM

In fairness Artic, that's naive. The last time calves were put down was with a hammer in 1932, when they had a bounty.

gerryirl · 09-10-2019 05:45PM

Muckit wrote: »

I think Kepak.are laying down a marker that they dont want the lowest 2 grades, literally "skin and bone" and that they're not going to be used as a knackery to save the collection fee.

They dont want good cattle either. Severe cutting of anything over 420 kgs dead. I wa always afraid of this base price everyone was after. You could have a base of €3.75 with Kepak go in with big cattle you base is back to €3.45. Its just another way of moving the goalposts to suit the factories. They will all be all be at it soon

Base price · 09-10-2019 06:25PM

Water John wrote: »

In fairness Artic, that's naive. The last time calves were put down was with a hammer in 1932, when they had a bounty.

Actually there was a calf slaughter policy implemented (FR bull calves) in 1999/2000. From memory they were getting around £70/head.

Grueller · 09-10-2019 06:31PM

Say my name wrote: »

Don't I know and grazing the neighbours grass for craic.
And then don't bother answering the phone when someone rings to inform them they're out again.

I know all about it.

Sh1tty comment SMN. I think you are one of the best posters on here and didn't think that you would have a tar all approach like that over the actions of 1 or 2.

Base price · 09-10-2019 07:13PM

According to the Farming Indo factories are quoting a lesser base price for overage cattle - https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/beef-prices/martin-coughlan-the-beef-lords-giveth-and-the-beef-lords-also-taketh-away-38571040.html?fbclid=IwAR0nOAUwefmLP2hhQ4OgCwZZ-J22CTVdw6eSb_YInOPCGLqMq_2kRtR0110

Say my name · 09-10-2019 07:34PM

Grueller wrote: »

Sh1tty comment SMN. I think you are one of the best posters on here and didn't think that you would have a tar all approach like that over the actions of 1 or 2.

From a fencing point of view for a neighbour I'd take a full time dairy farmer any day of the week than a full time builder or whatever they do who keeps cattle as a side line.

If that offends you. Well pity.
I've had my fill of it lately.

gerryirl · 09-10-2019 07:51PM

Base price wrote: »

According to the Farming Indo factories are quoting a lesser base price for overage cattle - https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/beef-prices/martin-coughlan-the-beef-lords-giveth-and-the-beef-lords-also-taketh-away-38571040.html?fbclid=IwAR0nOAUwefmLP2hhQ4OgCwZZ-J22CTVdw6eSb_YInOPCGLqMq_2kRtR0110

They are pretty much doing what they want now.. kill count could be higher but they are just dragging there feet to fook the farmer up which is working out grand for them..

Grueller · 09-10-2019 07:53PM

Say my name wrote: »

From a fencing point of view for a neighbour I'd take a full time dairy farmer any day of the week than a full time builder or whatever they do who keeps cattle as a side line.

If that offends you. Well pity.
I've had my fill of it lately.

Most part time men about here have excellent fence as they haven't time to be chasing errant stock.
That's not the issue anyhow. It's you tarring all with one brush due to one or two poor neighbours.

amacca · 09-10-2019 07:58PM

Say my name wrote: »

From a fencing point of view for a neighbour I'd take a full time dairy farmer any day of the week than a full time builder or whatever they do who keeps cattle as a side line.

If that offends you. Well pity.
I've had my fill of it lately.

Thats fair enough I suppose, but just to put the other side to it

I would be considered a part time farmer I suppose and I can't stand my cattle getting out and having to deal with it so I'm very well fenced for the stock I have or I'm constantly tipping away at it, ......tbh I can't afford the time to be off solving problems...my animals have to stay in my place I can't be chasing after them and I can't let them wander freely and not give two ****s/avoid calls etc etc

on out farms at the moment I'm plagued with animals coming into me and they are predominantly coming in from full time guys...one is a dairy lad (fairly roughshod, fond of the pallet and bit of baling twine...but in fairness to him he does his bit when its put up to him and the other lad a big suckler guy who couldn't give two flying ****s, and another peach of full time lad renting beside me that had well over 200 sheep in grazing meadows on me a couple of months ago who scratched his head when I was chatting him telling me he wasn't sure what he could do about it:)

I pretty much find myself fencing to keep other peoples animals out than my own in nowadays and its definitely not just the part timers that like to rim it in my own personal experience ---of the two best lads mearning me, one in fairness was a full timer and the other is part-time, has is own construction/siteworks etc business

Base price · 09-10-2019 08:14PM

gerryirl wrote: »

They are pretty much doing what they want now.. kill count could be higher but they are just dragging there feet to fook the farmer up which is working out grand for them..

That is why I never agreed with the timing of the Beep Plan/Indpendent Farmers blockades - it was going to create a backlog and play directly into the factory hands.

wrangler · 09-10-2019 08:35PM

gerryirl wrote: »

They are pretty much doing what they want now.. kill count could be higher but they are just dragging there feet to fook the farmer up which is working out grand for them..

You couldn't blame them if they were dragging their feet.
To be fair they're averaging 38000 over the last two weeks.
So they're not dragging their heels, this is purely down to the poor timing

Muckit · 09-10-2019 10:08PM

gerryirl wrote: »

They dont want good cattle either. Severe cutting of anything over 420 kgs dead. I wa always afraid of this base price everyone was after. You could have a base of €3.75 with Kepak go in with big cattle you base is back to €3.45. Its just another way of moving the goalposts to suit the factories. They will all be all be at it soon

Oh l agree. Big charolais bullocks are out. I'd even have an odd good heifer kill out over that but she'd be an exception.

U grade LM are out for me too from now on. Too hard to fatten even, into a 2+.

gerryirl · 10-10-2019 12:58AM

Base price wrote: »

That is why I never agreed with the timing of the Beep Plan/Indpendent Farmers blockades - it was going to create a backlog and play directly into the factory hands.

I think most people agree May day was the time but the prices kept dropping an dropping towards the backend so I guess that played there hand but its some clusterfook now trying to kill cattle

Bass Reeves · 10-10-2019 09:22AM

Muckit wrote: »

Oh l agree. Big charolais bullocks are out. I'd even have an odd good heifer kill out over that but she'd be an exception.

U grade LM are out for me too from now on. Too hard to fatten even, into a 2+.

Farming Independent was on about this in the factory prices section that were we breeding the wrong type of suckler cattle. They made the point that no meat processor had branded CH or LM meat. As one who has often made this point for the last 3 years at least. It also made the point that this would mean trouble for a lot of finishers that specialize in finishing them. The big problem is the higher winter price that was there has not existed the last two winters. This has transferred back into 2/kg and less for these stores type and it is making there breeding uneconomical.

However lads were lead up the garden path by advisory people pushing them into U16 month bulls and the bull game in general putting massive weigh on these cattle to try to make a margin. Going a high cost so called efficient route with nothing extra at the end.

Robson99 · 10-10-2019 10:48AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Farming Independent was on about this in the factory prices section that were we breeding the wrong type of suckler cattle. They made the point that no meat processor had branded CH or LM meat. As one who has often made this point for the last 3 years at least. It also made the point that this would mean trouble for a lot of finishers that specialize in finishing them. The big problem is the higher winter price that was there has not existed the last two winters. This has transferred back into 2/kg and less for these stores type and it is making there breeding uneconomical.

However lads were lead up the garden path by advisory people pushing them into U16 month bulls and the bull game in general putting massive weigh on these cattle to try to make a margin. Going a high cost so called efficient route with nothing extra at the end.

Totally agree 're the last couple if winter's 're feeding
The problem with contenintal cattle is that you need to get carcass weights over 400kgs to make a pound if you are not producing them yourself. 350 to 380 kg carcasses will not pay the store to finisher man with the price of weanlings/ stores

Muckit · 10-10-2019 11:44AM

Robson99 wrote: »

350 to 380 kg carcasses will not pay the store to finisher man with the price of weanlings/ stores

Majority of heifers l finish would fall into the category. Haven't gone out looking yet but prices will have to come back a lot to see them replaced.

Twas grand looking at the factory sheet until the last column and to see the pitiful money they came into. I didn't depress myself to look at the Mart dockets when they were bought last Nov but I'd say there wasn't €250 in the difference of most of them.

Bass Reeves · 10-10-2019 12:51PM

Robson99 wrote: »

Totally agree 're the last couple if winter's 're feeding
The problem with contenintal cattle is that you need to get carcass weights over 400kgs to make a pound if you are not producing them yourself. 350 to 380 kg carcasses will not pay the store to finisher man with the price of weanlings/ stores

You will now and again buy them lower quality Suckler bred cattle at sub 2/kg. Lads that were not done well. These are nearly always profitable. Bought 6 Ch about 3 weeks ago year and a half cattle
370 kgs 710 euro
400kgs 750
440kgd 810
And last week bought 8 poorly done black LM for about 1.6/kg from 320-380 kgs. I say they are Suckler bred great length on a few of them. I was the only farmer on the seats bidding so I not sure what they have gone for if I was not there. Will make good cattle the end of next year some are May/June born

Bass Reeves · 10-10-2019 01:01PM

Muckit wrote: »

Majority of heifers l finish would fall into the category. Haven't gone out looking yet but prices will have to come back a lot to see them replaced.

Twas grand looking at the factory sheet until the last column and to see the pitiful money they came into. I didn't depress myself to look at the Mart dockets when they were bought last Nov but I'd say there wasn't €250 in the difference of most of them.

You need a 600 euro minimum gross margin to achieve a net margin of 250 euro/head real killer this year will be store numbers they will be well back on last year's numbers IMO. I have all stores for next year bought and still have about 25 to slaughter. Average cost including fees and transport is just below 600 euro. Some were light Friesians bought in July and August. I expect them to average 1200 euro if 2020 prices are exactly the same as 2019

Muckit · 10-10-2019 01:07PM

That's great going. If l could buy a ch/lm wean heifer @€;600. It'd take me 22mths to turn her around and wouldn't make much more. Good cattle aren't paying it seems!!

Panch18 · 10-10-2019 03:08PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You will now and again buy them lower quality Suckler bred cattle at sub 2/kg. Lads that were not done well. These are nearly always profitable. Bought 6 Ch about 3 weeks ago year and a half cattle
370 kgs 710 euro
400kgs 750
440kgd 810
And last week bought 8 poorly done black LM for about 1.6/kg from 320-380 kgs. I say they are Suckler bred great length on a few of them. I was the only farmer on the seats bidding so I not sure what they have gone for if I was not there. Will make good cattle the end of next year some are May/June born

When are you planning on killing the 370 and 400kg ones?

gerryirl · 10-10-2019 07:15PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You will now and again buy them lower quality Suckler bred cattle at sub 2/kg. Lads that were not done well. These are nearly always profitable. Bought 6 Ch about 3 weeks ago year and a half cattle
370 kgs 710 euro
400kgs 750
440kgd 810
And last week bought 8 poorly done black LM for about 1.6/kg from 320-380 kgs. I say they are Suckler bred great length on a few of them. I was the only farmer on the seats bidding so I not sure what they have gone for if I was not there. Will make good cattle the end of next year some are May/June born

I was looking at lads like them and only thing that put me off was the weight gain for there age. It could take a pile of nuts to finish them . I ended up buying right good stores for some less than 2.10 a kilo. sure theyll keep the grass ate next year if nothing else

Bass Reeves · 10-10-2019 09:38PM

Panch18 wrote: »

When are you planning on killing the 370 and 400kg ones?

Everything I buy is summer finished. They will more than likely be killed next July/August. Will get them to 700ish kgs expect them to be in the 360-380kg DW

Good loser · 11-10-2019 12:27AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Everything I buy is summer finished. They will more than likely be killed next July/August. Will get them to 700ish kgs expect them to be in the 360-380kg DW

I would budget for less than €1,100.
I have averaged just less than €1,000 on 30 month Frs this year.

Panch18 · 11-10-2019 06:19AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Everything I buy is summer finished. They will more than likely be killed next July/August. Will get them to 700ish kgs expect them to be in the 360-380kg DW

And what amount of nuts are you planning on feeding to achieve that? And when would you plan to start feeding them? Over winter as well as at the end or ??

Bass Reeves · 11-10-2019 08:12AM

Good loser wrote: »

I would budget for less than €1,100.
I have averaged just less than €1,000 on 30 month Frs this year.

I expect to average 1200 over all cattle. The better FR will average 1200 they did it this year. about 1/3 of my cattle are coloured cattle a mixture of CH, LM. HE and AA. 1/3 are heavy FR averaging 470kgs and 1/3 are lighter Fr about 400kgs now. I expect them to average 1200 on a similar killing price as this year.

Panch18 wrote: »

And what amount of nuts are you planning on feeding to achieve that? And when would you plan to start feeding them? Over winter as well as at the end or ??

No nuts over the winter silage only, the best of the cattle will go to grass on or around the 1st of March. Ration will be fed 6-8 weeks pre slaughter a straight mix of Maize/Barley/Hulls. this year it was Maize hulls only. farm is paddocked cattle are ran in two bunches store/replacement stores and finishing bunch for most of the summer. This year I had some heifers and they ran with the bullocks. Cattle are slaughtered from mid June on to catch higher price early in the year.

Panch18 · 11-10-2019 08:26AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I expect to average 1200 over all cattle. The better FR will average 1200 they did it this year. about 1/3 of my cattle are coloured cattle a mixture of CH, LM. HE and AA. 1/3 are heavy FR averaging 470kgs and 1/3 are lighter Fr about 400kgs now. I expect them to average 1200 on a similar killing price as this year.

No nuts over the winter silage only, the best of the cattle will go to grass on or around the 1st of March. Ration will be fed 6-8 weeks pre slaughter a straight mix of Maize/Barley/Hulls. this year it was Maize hulls only. farm is paddocked cattle are ran in two bunches store/replacement stores and finishing bunch for most of the summer. This year I had some heifers and they ran with the bullocks. Cattle are slaughtered from mid June on to catch higher price early in the year.

Can you just outline for us the weight gain pattern that you expect for a 360-400 kg bullock on October 1st to get to 700kg by July August next year?

Because in mind those cattle you purchased are 50-75 kg too light to reach those weights that early next year

Buford T. Justice XIX · 11-10-2019 10:02AM

Some details on the BPO and their requirements for members.
https://twitter.com/FJBeef/status/1182391484714291204?s=19

Bass Reeves · 11-10-2019 10:05AM

Panch18 wrote: »

Can you just outline for us the weight gain pattern that you expect for a 360-400 kg bullock on October 1st to get to 700kg by July August next year?

Because in mind those cattle you purchased are 50-75 kg too light to reach those weights that early next year

First off the Ch were bought just over 4 weeks ago and are doing about 800-1kg/day at present they averaged 398 kgs the day they were purchased. I expect to house at an average of 460 kgs about Nov 10th. They will be on silage minerals and calcium over the winter and Will be turned out around March 1st. I expect them to grow over the winter but only put on about 250 grams/ day(usually coloured cattle hold there flesh better than FR. I expect them to be just shy of 609jgs at turnout On hitting grass they will average 1.3kgs over the first 100 day to be over 600 kgs in late May up on 620kgs on June 10ths.They may be on ration already or not depending on what I target for early finishing.
But I assume that I intend to carry until august. On ration 3kgs/ day ( that the average going into the troughs across the finishing bunch) they will be eating a tad more than that as they will be stronger at the troughs.. They will continue to do 1.1kgd/day. In 65 days to mid August I expect another 75 kgs. I expect them to kill over 370 kgs if around that long. I had an LM bullock bought August Ist last year kill 395 kgs between the strikes in mud August he was 333kgs at purchase. I still have his two companions. Friesians bought the same day at 395kgs averaged 340 in mid July. AA will not do near that weight gain HE will do in between.
Too many lads spend too long around the ring and too little time on the farm

The Strike is over. What happens now?

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