Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

theballz wrote: »

Britain against Brexit as poll of polls now say that most now want to stay.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-news-latest-britain-against-leaving-eu-as-poll-of-polls-says-most-now-want-to-stay-a4257476.html

Why are they so adamant about not having a second referendum?

For the reason that you yourself point out; Brexit - whether May's deal or no-deal - would likely lose out to Remain. This is not an acceptable outcome to the unelected elite, so they won't permit it.

NIMAN wrote: »

Surely it's not too difficult to route from Europe directly to Ireland? Eventually.

Would be nice if our euro partners could look out for one of their own, eh!

Eventually being the operative word here.

Yes eventually we will see less landbridge traffic between Ireland and Europe but in the coming months with the whole thing still very much up in the air those involved in logistics would be doing very well to engineer a seamless transition.

Peregrinus wrote: »

For the reason that you yourself point out; Brexit - whether May's deal or no-deal - would likely lose out to Remain. This is not an acceptable outcome to the unelected elite, so they won't permit it.

Can only a government table a motion for a second referendum? Even if a minority one! We've seen all manner of bills passed in parliament which didn't come from cabinet!

lawred2 wrote: »

Can only a government table a motion for a second referendum? Even if a minority one! We've seen all manner of bills passed in parliament which didn't come from cabinet!

No parliament is sovereign. It can do what it wants. Parliament has lent some of its power to a government for reasons of expediency but it can be changed at any time.

A second referendum was one of the options when they voted of about 10 options in the non binding votes to see what had support. It's unlikely a second referendum has the support of the house. Labour still fancy their chances of getting a a unicorn /deal

theballz wrote: »

The fact is, the British didn’t think about Northern Ireland when they voted to leave the EU. This was decision they made with no plan, Leo should not be entertaining a meeting with Johnson - travelling to the UK to meet him worries me (slightly.)

I can't see Varadkar being backed into a corner. Johnson has no cards to play with and is in considerable trouble.....threatening Ireland with the effects of No Deal would just be laughed off at this stage.

lawred2 wrote: »

Can only a government table a motion for a second referendum? Even if a minority one! We've seen all manner of bills passed in parliament which didn't come from cabinet!

In theory Parliament could pass a bill for a second referendum, even if the Bill was not introduced or supported by the government. In practice, this is very unlikely, for three reasons.

First, the private members bills that have been put through against government wishes have all be short, focused and punchy, containing in effect one simple and short-term provision. A referendum bill would need to be long and complex, dealing with the questiont to be put, the timescale for the campaign, the appointment and funding of the pro- and anti-campaigns, etc. And it would also need to contain new measures to detect, regulate and prevent the abuses which, we now know, corrupted the last referendum. It's not realistic to think of a private member's bill, prepared at short notice without the assistance of the Parliamentary Draftsman's Office, dealing with all this satisfactorily.

Secondly, there is probably no majority in Parliament in favour of a second referendum. And once you try and narrow down the exact question to be put in a second referndum, I'm pretty sure that any majority you thought you had would start to splinter.

Thirdly, a referendum would take many months. Realistically, the UK has to have a functioning government that can get stuff through Parliament during that time; things can't go on as they are for more than a very short time. So a referendum can't happen until after a functioning government with a workable majority is installed, which almost certainly requires an election.

If the Tory party policy officially becomes ‘charge towards no deal’, going into an election- what would happen to the moderate Tories who cannot support that? I imagine they number around 100?

Are they just all going to be deselected and replaced with new, previously unknown, hardcore No Dealers, who have never been MPs before?

SeaBreezes wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/thetimes/status/1181816775236882432

The times making up stories ..

I Wonder if they realise yet that they are meeting the EU when they meet Leo.

I would think that this is the most succinct response

https://mobile.twitter.com/lancewalton/status/1181953278197866496

Leroy42 wrote: »

I think it is a mistake for Leo to meet under these secret conditions.

We see from both the Merkel call and Damien Green meeting that No 10 is not adverse to putting put whatever message that suits their agenda.

I see no advantage to this meeting from Irelands POV.

Id say Leo should hit the old record button on his phone when going into that meeting.

mickoneill31 wrote: »

Id say Leo should hit the old record button on his phone when going into that meeting.

i was thinking the same thing!!

SeaBreezes wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/thetimes/status/1181816775236882432

The times making up stories ..

I Wonder if they realise yet that they are meeting the EU when they meet Leo.

The entire British media (print at least) is making up stories. And even the so-called broadsheets such as the Telegraph have fostered a situation where the most liked comments on their articles are typical of this (from a Paul Copson, whether that's a real name or not, who knows?) :

'I took a taxi ride yesterday and my driver was a highly intelligent Iraqi who’s family lived under Saddam Hussein’s dictatorial regime. I asked what it was like living there for ordinary people. In general terms he said that provided people kept out of politics they were left alone to get on with their lives. But it was “highly unwise to rock the boat”. In very loose terms I could not help but make parallels yesterday’s lucid conversation and this article. Quite clearly the UK is rocking the European boat and a price is being paid.'

Are people being disappeared or taken out the back to be shot if they're not clapping hard enough for the EU now?

briany wrote: »

What's this about Leadsom saying Johnson will send two letters. i.e

Letter 1: Extension please

Letter 2: Disregard

Can't happen, according to all the legal eagles.

Leroy42 wrote: »

Won't matter. You can be sure Merkel has a record of the Johnson call but No 10 send their line out 1st and the media publicize it as if true.

Look at the times story about Leo broken promise. To any sane person this reads like No 10 trying to blame someone else for their much heralded proposal being shot down.

If Leo is having to provide evidence to counter what is being reported then the meeting would have been the failure I'm predicting.

UK have already gone back on their commitments so why have a secret meeting? I'm all for them talking, but this sounds really dubious and I'd allowing the UK to increase the idea that it is Ireland at the cause of the problem. Johnson should be talking to Barnier.

Me thinks Leo's hubris has got the better of him and he thinks he can sort Johnson out and be the hero.

it is a strange one, i reckon the Irish have a reason for having this meeting that will become apparent later.

i doubt it is just leo trying to save the day. Number 10 has briefed pretty shamelessly against the Irish this week maybe merrion st have had enough and are going to get their retaliation in first this time.
or perhaps they are happy to take the blame from the torys and pretty much finally collapse the talks thereby forcing boris into taking a position on what he is going to do next.
all the anti Leo anti Irish thing in the papers is not doing one bit of harm to Leo or to Ireland, if anything it is good for Leo from a domestic point of view, the more the Brits deride him and lie about him the more respect he gets at home for not backing down.

Hang on guys, Bridgen has just given the game away! Ireland is meeting with the UK to form our joint plan for leaving!

I've taken the hit for clicking through to the piece of crap so you don't have to!
[url] https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1188698/Brexit-News-Andrew-Bridgen-final-countdown-podcast-Daily-Express-Ireland-EU-update-latest[/url]

Conservative MP Andrew Bridgen joined Brexit the Final Countdown host Rebecca Hutson and Daily Express senior political correspondent, Martyn Brown, to discuss the prospect of a no deal and the future of the Tory party. During the episode, the prominent Brexiteer revealed which country he thought would follow the UK out of the EU and listed the reasons why. He said: “I still think that the Republic of Ireland will be the next country to leave the European Union after us despite all this.

We’ll have a free trade deal with America. They won’t be able to join in which is going to be desperately uncomfortable for them with the US being their biggest trading partner.

“The Republic of Ireland has done very well since the huge crash in 2008, they’ve dropped their corporation tax to around about 10 percent.
.....
The MP added: “Ireland will be the only English-speaking nation left in the UK.

“They represent one percent of that population.

“They will have very little voting power without us as their ally in the EU.

“Ireland’s out in the Atlantic, it doesn’t border another EU state.”

“Ireland’s out in the Atlantic, it doesn’t border another EU state.”


Not bordering another EU state is something Greece, Cyprus and Malta seem to have no issues with.