Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Are there Poor Countries?

Options
2

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    For true wealth to be created it's important that nata countrie's institutions are structured in alignment with human nature, true human nature.

    :D. Care to elaborate?


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Proper order and instruction.

    For eg Rhodesia went from the bread basket of Africa to a sh1hole once the regime changed .


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Jimbob1977 wrote: »
    Niger, West Africa.

    90% unemployment

    90% illiteracy

    Eight children on average per mother

    Polio and similar diseases still exist

    Rubbish all over the streets

    Scorching weather. Sand encroaching.

    Landlocked

    Major export (uranium) no longer wanted after the Cold War ended.

    Corruption

    Tribal issues

    A real eye-opener

    Believe it or not.... the capital was safer than many Irish streets

    How could 90% of people be unemployed, surely subsistence farming is a common feature?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭Your Face


    Let them eat cake*

    *aware of actual historical context.


  • Site Banned Posts: 66 ✭✭Annurca Apples


    :D. Care to elaborate?

    John Adam's and Alexander Hamilton, who played important roles in structuring the US constitution had a good understanding of human nature, and the propensity of people to become tyrants should opportunity present itself. Hence the terms "checks and balances" which is often heard in US political discourse. John Adam's in particular understood that the population should not be trusted to make important decisions via referendum, such as Brexit. Look at the destruction which will be caused by Brexit by allowing the electorate to make the decision.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,239 ✭✭✭Jimbob1977


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    How could 90% of people be unemployed, surely subsistence farming is a common feature?

    Sorry - I meant the capital city of Niamey.

    In the countryside, they are running subsistence farms. Drought and famine are common.

    In the city, the family tend to be dependent on a single breadwinner.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,806 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    John Adam's and Alexander Hamilton, who played important roles in structuring the US constitution had a good understanding of human nature, and the propensity of people to become tyrants should opportunity present itself. Hence the terms "checks and balances" which is often heard in US political discourse. John Adam's in particular understood that the population should not be trusted to make important decisions via referendum, such as Brexit. Look at the destruction which will be caused by Brexit by allowing the electorate to make the decision.


    Yea democracy is a dreadful idea, thankfully we don't actually have that kind of governance


  • Site Banned Posts: 66 ✭✭Annurca Apples


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Yea democracy is a dreadful idea, thankfully we don't actually have that kind of governance

    When did I say democracy is a terrible idea?

    Did I say people shouldn't be allowed choose their leaders?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    When did I say democracy is a terrible idea?

    Did I say people shouldn't be allowed choose their leaders?

    Democracy means an awful lot more than simply choosing leaders. It involves choosing all members of an assembly or parliament and having a say all aspects of government and decision making, as well as the practice or principles of social equality.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,294 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Work ethic and productivity are as important as natural resources hence the reason Ireland is now going well whereas Greece is still a basket case. Places like Saudi and UAE would crumble to the ground if the oil revenue disappeared (which would not be a bad thing imo).

    Ireland has benefited greatly from proximity and an inheritance of a work ethic that chases more than feeding the immediate family. Other places without that work ethic need to rely on their natural resources to generate wealth. The most successful countries (Germany, Scandinavia et al) have had generations of this work ethic to build upon.


  • Advertisement
  • Site Banned Posts: 66 ✭✭Annurca Apples


    Democracy means an awful lot more than simply choosing leaders. It involves choosing all members of an assembly or parliament and having a say all aspects of government and decision making, as well as the practice or principles of social equality.

    I notice that doesn't include referenda on important decisions such as Brexit or monetary policy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,806 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Pawwed Rig wrote:
    Work ethic and productivity are as important as natural resources hence the reason Ireland is now going well whereas Greece is still a basket case. Places like Saudi and UAE would crumble to the ground if the oil revenue disappeared (which would not be a bad thing imo).


    Greece was thrown under the bus, so that the status quo of the actual axis of power remained the same in the EU, it worked, for now!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Greece was thrown under the bus, so that the status quo of the actual axis of power remained the same in the EU, it worked, for now!

    No. Greece made to real effort to increase productivity nor to enforce austerity measures.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,806 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    I notice that doesn't include referenda on important decisions such as Brexit or monetary policy.


    We ve decided, or have we, that monetary systems are best left to 'the experts', as democratic decisions would be bad for us for such things, so these experts (bankers) are just the folks for the job!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    I notice that doesn't include referenda on important decisions such as Brexit or monetary policy.

    .

    Of course it does. By very definition it does. And 'the practice or principles of social equality.'.


    But you're determined to ignore anything contrary, so...….


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,806 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    No. Greece made to real effort to increase productivity nor to enforce austerity measures.


    varoufakis's 'adults in the room' is worth a read, even some of the main 'negotiators' including lagarde knew the bail out program of Greece was gonna fail, she admitted it to him during the process, and she wasn't the only one. Varoufakis tried implement measures to try grow Greece out of the problem, he effectively wasn't allowed, hence his resignation. Austerity is known to be counter-productive in achieving it's goals, political scientist mark blyth has done great work on proving this


  • Site Banned Posts: 66 ✭✭Annurca Apples


    Of course it does. By very definition it does. And 'the practice or principles of social equality.'.


    But you're determined to ignore anything contrary, so...….

    It's not a good idea to allow the masses to make such decisions. Crowds can behave in very strange ways which are not to the benefit of the crowd itself. It is better to elect representatives to make such decisions. There is no ideal system of course, but Brexit illustrates the stupidity of the crowd.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,806 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    It's not a good idea to allow the masses to make such decisions. Crowds can behave in very strange ways which are not to the benefit of the crow itself. It is better to elect representatives to make such decisions.


    So we should have 'selective' democracy or something?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭Sonny678


    Ireland until very recently was a poor country. In 19th century the worst human tragedy in Western Europe was the Irish famine where 1 million starved to death and 1 million emigrated. In 1920s the Irish free state was founded and the Brits took all the money out of the country. There was very little capital in Ireland. There was the odd scheme like ESB works on Shannon but in the 20s 30s and 40s Ireland was economic wasteland. It was getting worse . In 1950s 100000s of Irish people were emigrating especially to English cities of London Manchester liverpool and Birmingham. The 50s was a lowpoint.
    In 1960s Lemass and Tk Whitaker starting to change the mindset of government thinking to a more outward approach. But throughout 70s and 80s Ireland was still the sickman of Europe.

    Then in a generation everything changed. Joining the EEC in 1973 was an important step. But another factor was the gamechanger. No country in Western Europe has undergone such a transformation in last 35 years as Ireland. 35 years ago Ireland was an economic, social and cultural basket case. Now it is a liberal country, which is now per capita one of richest countries in the world. The 11th richest country in the World per capta. Why did this happen ? US multinationals. Which is scary because if these companies where to leave in the future ( and it would take maybe a massive depression in the US or maybe US administration that found a way to force companies out of Ireland back home to the US ) if this happened Ireland wud become Detriot overnight. Yes Ireland still has many problems like eg Health system , homelessness , bad planning etc. But overall it is much richer then it was 30 years ago.

    Three stats show how multinationals have helped Ireland no longer being a poor country.

    1 US multi nationals have invested more into Ireland then into China , India , Russia and Brazil all combined.
    2 The country US mulitnationals have invested more in the world per capita is Ireland.
    3 US multinationals have invested 450 billion dollars in Ireland.

    Theres ur reason , The Brits left took all their capital and money . We were poor before the Brits left , and it continued for decades after they left , if anything things worsened. This countries fortunes upturn when US multinationals come to this shore.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,806 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Sonny678 wrote:
    There ur a reason , The Brits left took all their capital and money . We were poor before the Brits left , and it continued for decades after they left , if anything things worsened. This countries fortunes upturn when US multinationals come to this shore.


    ...and it wouldn't break them if they paid a few more quid into the kitty, since we ve looked after them very well


  • Advertisement
  • Site Banned Posts: 66 ✭✭Annurca Apples


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    So we should have 'selective' democracy or something?

    I'd advocate for a system similar to the US.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,806 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    No, democracy without referendums.


    I particularly like that term, referendums are potentially the most democratic policy available in democracy


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,806 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    I'd advocate for a system similar to the US.


    Course you would, plutocracy disguised as democracy, no thanks!


  • Site Banned Posts: 66 ✭✭Annurca Apples


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Course you would, plutocracy disguised as democracy, no thanks!

    What does "cause you would" mean? What are you trying to communicate with those words?

    Most people don't understand human nature, they have an idealised vision of it which doesn't play out in reality. Most people have a greater propensity to be a tyrant than they realise. This is why it's important that constitutional and political structures are in place to prevent any one person holding too much power.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Greece was thrown under the bus, so that the status quo of the actual axis of power remained the same in the EU, it worked, for now!

    Greek are lazy Fcukers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,806 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    What does "cause you would" mean? What are you trying to communicate with those words?


    Its becoming apparent from your posts, please correct me if I'm wrong, you're into 'strongman leadership'?


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,806 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    YFlyer wrote:
    Greek are lazy Fcukers.


    According to data, just as productive as the rest of us, it's clearly obvious they were thrown under the bus to protect plutocratic interests, particularly of European financial institutions, similar to ourselves, but more so


  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    Work ethic and productivity are as important as natural resources hence the reason Ireland is now going well whereas Greece is still a basket case. Places like Saudi and UAE would crumble to the ground if the oil revenue disappeared (which would not be a bad thing imo).

    Ireland has benefited greatly from proximity and an inheritance of a work ethic that chases more than feeding the immediate family. Other places without that work ethic need to rely on their natural resources to generate wealth. The most successful countries (Germany, Scandinavia et al) have had generations of this work ethic to build upon.

    Don't know about Greece, but when I was in Germany no one worked one minute over their contracted hours with out getting overtime, the same in France.

    Still see the same as I work with a lot of people based in Europe. Irish people are stupid enough to work overtime with out pay or time in lieu.


  • Site Banned Posts: 66 ✭✭Annurca Apples


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Its becoming apparent from your posts, please correct me if I'm wrong, you're into 'strongman leadership'?

    I'm not sure how "strongman leadership" is defined. I advocate structuring institutions and the constitution such that no one person can abuse their power, to the detriment of society.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,085 ✭✭✭Sonny678


    Irelands transformation in a generation is unreal. The rise of people's income in 30 years has been quite dramatic. The cost of property, cost of living has increased dramatically. In Britian peoples wages have increased very little in the last 30 years , in Ireland they have risen substantially.

    In the 1970s and 1980s Ireland had mass emigration, high unemployment, massive government corruption that was rampant. Prime Minster ( Haughey ) and Minsters would soon be exposed in tribunals. The church had massive control over people's believes and social actions. Sex outside marraiage was frowned upon , contraception limited , divorce abortion and homosexuality were all illegal. The countries finances were piss poor , limited industrial activity and widespead corruption , corrinism and gombeemisn. Ireland was the butt of international jokes. Irish Paddy man joke books sold by 100000s in UK. Ireland was seen as a country of priests , pixies and peasants especially in the Uk. Nationalism was strong , while a sectarian religious civil war was happenning in the north of the island which impacted the whole of the Island as the Ulster went up in flames for 3 decades.

    This countries transformation in a generation is nothing short of incredible. From homosexuality outlawed to an openly gay Prime Minister , from mass unemployment and emigration to near full employment and inward migration , from a deeply religious catholic country to a liberal progressive country , from little or no industries to nearly every world famous company on our shores eg Apple , Intel , Google , Facebook etc. Its quite a turnaround in such a short period of time. Ireland was the sickman of western Europe up to very very recently.


Advertisement