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Retailer offering credit instead of cash for faulty mattress

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  • 17-09-2019 12:29am
    #1
    rodge123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭


    I purchased a mattress from a well know retailer about 4 years ago and it has developed a very large indentation in it.
    Neither my wife or I are heavy and we have regularly turned the mattress as advised.

    The retailer has offered us a €400 credit with them based on age / warranty calculation.

    We have purchased a new mattress with another retailer as they did not have the new one we wanted.

    My question is - am I entitled to a cash refund to the value of €400 instead of a credit with the retailer?

    Thanks
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    #2
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,901 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    If the retailer is admitting the goods are faulty and is offering a refund, you can insist on cash or a refund to your debit or credit card.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_complaints/replacements_refunds_and_credit_notes.html


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    #3
    rodge123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭rodge123


    Padre_Pio wrote: »
    If the retailer is admitting the goods are faulty and is offering a refund, you can insist on cash or a refund to your debit or credit card.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/consumer_protection/consumer_complaints/replacements_refunds_and_credit_notes.html

    So I spoke with customer service from the retailer just there and they are point blank refusing to offer a cash refund, only offering a store credit.

    Just to point out, it a manufactures warranty that is coming into play.
    Thinking I might email CCPC to confirm I am entitled to a cash refund, repair or replacement?

    If I am, then I suppose it's the small claims court.


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    #4
    Darc19
    Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    Some missing information here

    1. When you say "about 4 years ago" can you say exactly.

    2. What was the original price.


    Imo it's a fair offer if it's 50% or more of the original price as it would be for you to provide proof that it was a manufacturing defect.

    Technically, they could simply repair it, though probably not feasible for a mattress.

    They also could have replaced it with an equivalent mattress - not a new one that you decided on, but same / similar model.

    If they offered to replace with similar model and you refused, then you will have difficulty with any scc case.


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    #5
    rodge123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭rodge123


    Darc19 wrote: »
    Some missing information here

    1. When you say "about 4 years ago" can you say exactly.

    2. What was the original price.


    Imo it's a fair offer if it's 50% or more of the original price as it would be for you to provide proof that it was a manufacturing defect.

    Technically, they could simply repair it, though probably not feasible for a mattress.

    They also could have replaced it with an equivalent mattress - not a new one that you decided on, but same / similar model.

    If they offered to replace with similar model and you refused, then you will have difficulty with any scc case.

    Dont have exact date off top of my head but's it's around the 5 years which would explain the credit offer of ~50% €387 when mattress cost about €800.

    As for providing proof of a manufacturing defect, how can any ordinary consumer provide proof of this unless they are an expert in mattress designs and manufacturing? Likewise if a computer / tv / oven breaks inside warranty period.
    Consumers would surely find it difficult to make use of their statutory rights for many goods.

    Anyway, I emailed CCPC with the info and will update here with what they recommend.


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    #6
    Darc19
    Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    I think scc will find the offer reasonable as five years use has been had. That they did not have the exact mattress you wanted is not important, they surely had similar or even the same mattress that you said was faulty.

    Unfortunately, it is up to the consumer to show that it has an inherent manufacturing fault. Sometimes this is easy, sometimes not. Usually the retailer or manufacturer can diagnose the problem and say what it is.


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    #7
    rodge123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭rodge123


    Darc19 wrote: »
    I think scc will find the offer reasonable as five years use has been had. That they did not have the exact mattress you wanted is not important, they surely had similar or even the same mattress that you said was faulty.

    Unfortunately, it is up to the consumer to show that it has an inherent manufacturing fault. Sometimes this is easy, sometimes not. Usually the retailer or manufacturer can diagnose the problem and say what it is.

    The offer would be reasonable IF it was a refund and not a credit with the retailer which I have no use for.
    That aside, they are offering what they have to as per the 10 year limited warranty on the mattress with the calculation dependent on age of mattress. They are only doing what they are obliged to do, nothing more in terms of value they are putting on mattress.


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    #8
    Darc19
    Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    If it's the manufacturer limited 10 years warranty you are going by, then the ccpc may not be able to help as they focus on statutory rights.

    Whether a 5 year old mattress falls under this and getting a better offer is not certain.

    Usually a mattress limited warranty takes 10% off for each year and they replace with same model at the price less the # of years discounted. In your case, 50%.

    Seems by offering you the 50% off a replacement as per the terms, they have complied fully.

    So you need to see if you have an angle on the sale of goods act rather than the manufacturer warranty as they have fulfilled their obligations on that. (I'm assuming it's the standard limited warranty that most mattress brands have)


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    #9
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    I think it’s more than a fair offer as you’ve had 5 years use from the mattress and while there may be a manufacturers warranty for a longer period you have no proof that you didn’t misuse/abuse the mattress.


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    #10
    Gooser14
    Registered Users Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Gooser14


    You can insist on a refund in cash or to your card. You do not have to accept a credit note. See page 3 of the following referenced document:

    Your-rights-when-shopping.pdf


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    #11
    Donnielighto
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭Donnielighto


    Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »
    I think it’s more than a fair offer as you’ve had 5 years use from the mattress and while there may be a manufacturers warranty for a longer period you have no proof that you didn’t misuse/abuse the mattress.

    That's not what the op is asking about.


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    #12
    Darc19
    Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    Gooser14 wrote: »
    You can insist on a refund in cash or to your card. You do not have to accept a credit note. See page 3 of the attached document:

    Your-rights-when-shopping.pdf
    That's incorrect.

    You can request a refund if relying on the sale of goods act and you can show it is a manufacture issue.
    The store can insist on a replacement or a repair.

    No one option has precedence over another. It would come down to what is the fairest option.

    If a car develops a fault after 3 years, you don't expect a full refund.


    Also, if you read the OP's posts, he/she is claiming under the manufacturer's own 10 years limited warranty. And the retailer has conformed with that fully. (you need to read the warranty the op is basing the claim on)

    Now, the OP could have a case under the sale of goods act, but under that he/she will have to show it was a manufacturer defect. And that will be very difficult to show after 5 years of wear and tear.


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    #13
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,725 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Gooser14 wrote: »
    You can insist on a refund in cash or to your card. You do not have to accept a credit note. See page 3 of the attached document:

    Your-rights-when-shopping.pdf

    That isn't attached nor is it relevant in this case.


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    #14
    Gooser14
    Registered Users Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Gooser14


    Why isn't it relevant?


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    #15
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,725 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Gooser14 wrote: »
    Why isn't it relevant?

    They're seeking a warranty claim on an item that is significantly beyond the age at which a retailer is obliged to accept that a fault is inherent under consumer legislation.

    If they take this to court they might get a partial refund but they may also get nothing except a wasted day and a €25 lighter wallet.


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    #16
    Darc19
    Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    Gooser14 wrote: »
    Why isn't it relevant?
    Probably because you are reading five words out of context of a two page document.

    And also because the op has claimed on the additional manufacturers 10 year limited warranty as the op has stated.

    The retailer has fulfilled this warranty in full.

    Therefore the op now has to decide if they can rely on the sale of goods act for a five year old mattress and hope the scc offers a better offer than the reasonable offer they already have.

    I'd have my doubts that a better outcome would be had


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    #17
    Gooser14
    Registered Users Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Gooser14


    Darc19 wrote:
    And also because the op has claimed on the additional manufacturers 10 year limited warranty as the op has stated.


    But why would the retailer be offering a settlement under the manufacturers warranty. Surely the retailer would have told the customer to deal direct with the manufacturer if it is a warranty claim. It is because the retailer is accepting responsibility that I believe the customer is entitled to a cash refund of the agreed sum as per sale of goods legislation.


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    #18
    Darc19
    Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    Gooser14 wrote: »
    Darc19 wrote:
    And also because the op has claimed on the additional manufacturers 10 year limited warranty as the op has stated.


    But why would the retailer be offering a settlement under the manufacturers warranty. Surely the retailer would have told the customer to deal direct with the manufacturer if it is a warranty claim. It is because the retailer is accepting responsibility that I believe the customer is entitled to a cash refund of the agreed sum as per sale of goods legislation.
    Probably as they are still selling the mattress and also because even with a manufacturer warranty, you'd go to the store you gave your money to.

    Op has stated that they made a claim under this warranty and the store has complied with the warranty - I presume as agent for the manufacturer.

    You can't mix up different agreements and do a pick and mix on the outcome you prefer.
    The standard 10 years mattress warranty that many manufacturers offer can be searched for on Google, all have a similar text and this warranty has been complied with based on what the op has said.


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    #19
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,706 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Not sure about all this warranty discussion.

    Relevant point is the retailer has offered a credit note of €387 and does OP need to accept.
    Answer is no as credit note is not listed as an option, the options are

    Repair, not offered by Retailer and probably not applicable given the nature of the product
    Replacement, not sure why not offered
    Refund "A refund means the retailer returns the money you paid for faulty goods"
    If you are returning goods that are faulty you do not have to accept a credit note. Instead, you can ask for a repair, a replacement or a refund depending on the goods in question and other circumstances.

    I'd stick to insisting on a refund, again, a credit note is not a refund so the retailer has not kept their part of the consumer rights as their offer of a credit note is not one of the three on the table

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    #20
    Darc19
    Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    slave1 wrote: »
    Not sure about all this warranty discussion.

    Relevant point is the retailer has offered a credit note of €387 and does OP need to accept.
    Answer is no as credit note is not listed as an option, the options are

    Repair, not offered by Retailer and probably not applicable given the nature of the product
    Replacement, not sure why not offered
    Refund "A refund means the retailer returns the money you paid for faulty goods"
    If you are returning goods that are faulty you do not have to accept a credit note. Instead, you can ask for a repair, a replacement or a refund depending on the goods in question and other circumstances.

    I'd stick to insisting on a refund, again, a credit note is not a refund so the retailer has not kept their part of the consumer rights as their offer of a credit note is not one of the three on the table

    But you need to understand that the op claimed on the warranty which is what the store adhered to.

    Sale of goods act and the conditions of that simply don't come into it unless the op changes and makes the claim on that - but as another poster said, proving a fault after 5 years of daily use will be difficult and possibly won't get as good an outcome.

    So op either accepts current offer or rejects this, hand back the credit note and make a new separate claim under the statutory act and show that the mattress has a fault that was not caused by misuse at any time over 5 years.


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    #21
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,020 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    slave1 wrote: »
    Not sure about all this warranty discussion.

    Relevant point is the retailer has offered a credit note of €387 and does OP need to accept.
    Answer is no as credit note is not listed as an option, the options are

    Repair, not offered by Retailer and probably not applicable given the nature of the product
    Replacement, not sure why not offered
    Refund "A refund means the retailer returns the money you paid for faulty goods"
    If you are returning goods that are faulty you do not have to accept a credit note. Instead, you can ask for a repair, a replacement or a refund depending on the goods in question and other circumstances.

    I'd stick to insisting on a refund, again, a credit note is not a refund so the retailer has not kept their part of the consumer rights as their offer of a credit note is not one of the three on the table

    And again you are quoting a remedy under the SoGaS Act rather than a remedy under warranty. If the op refuses the offer, the retailer is well within their rights to say PFO and try your luck in the SCC. Would the SCC give as much for a 5 year well used old mattress?


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    #22
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,706 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Well if the mattress is sold with an expected life of 10years (taking the warranty period as fair guidance) then the OP should not refer to warranty when dealing with the shop and work off the SOG act, then if shop offer 50% refund (which seems fair) I'd insist on it being a refund and not a credit note (like what Darc19 says in final sentence in last post)

    OP may have weakened their stance by venturing into warranty world and IMHO I think the SSC could easily look to a 50% judgement based on life expectancy

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    #23
    rodge123
    Registered Users Posts: 1,451 ✭✭✭rodge123


    slave1 wrote: »
    Well if the mattress is sold with an expected life of 10years (taking the warranty period as fair guidance) then the OP should not refer to warranty when dealing with the shop and work off the SOG act, then if shop offer 50% refund (which seems fair) I'd insist on it being a refund and not a credit note (like what Darc19 says in final sentence in last post)

    OP may have weakened their stance by venturing into warranty world and IMHO I think the SSC could easily look to a 50% judgement based on life expectancy

    Thanks for all the replies guys. Haven’t had time to respond.

    These are my exact same thoughts at this point slave1.
    If they offer 10 year warranty then I believe it’s reasonable to expect it to be of use for 10 years.
    I might write one more email to them referencing the SOG act and see what they come back with.
    Otherwise it’s a formal letter of complaint as stated by CCPC (I’ll post their advice here later).


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