Why can't we recycle plastic wrapping? (You can now)

Biodegradable · 26-09-2019 11:13pm #1

Can it not just be melted down into like rigid plastic. It's not like it's made from a different polymer!

I mean what if I were to shove a load of plastic wrapping from biscuits into a milk bottle. They'd never know. Would they?

Upforthematch · 26-09-2019 11:22pm

Biodegradable wrote: »

I mean what if I were to shove a load of plastic wrapping from biscuits into a milk bottle. They'd never know. Would they?

You rebel!

jimbobaloobob · 26-09-2019 11:23pm

I think it's because most people don't wash them properly.
If you stuffed the bottle with soft plastics there would remove it from the recycling and it would go to general waste.

boombang · 26-09-2019 11:27pm

Also doesn't make economic or environmental sense to recycle some materials. It's too costly and energy intensive to get some materials back to a reusable standard. Plastic came from oil under the ground. If it's buried carefully in landfill it causes little problems and can just sit there for eternity.

Edit: why am I giving a serious answer in AH. See what BDI says about making dildos

atilladehun · 26-09-2019 11:30pm

From what I understand they're like alloy plastic. Recyclable plastic is close to a pure form but the non recyclable has other ingredients.

Some mixed plastics can be recycled but it's very expensive and the money recouped selling the output doesn't cover the cost.

Some plastics we haven't been able to separate yet.

Apparently if we put non recyclable in with recyclable plastic the cost of sorting removes the financial incentive of even the poor stuff.

I know a guy who is trying to get a business up and running in the UK that will sort all plastic quickly and cheaply but the selling price of the recycled stuff is still too low.

Padre_Pio · 26-09-2019 11:43pm

Films are very difficult to sort.

There's dozens of plastics, but unlike metal, plastics of different types can have near identical weighs, densities, and colours, melting points, magnetic properties, spectral absorbsion etc etc which makes sorting tough at the best of times.

In fairness, industry doesn't really care too much about recycling. A ton of virgin plastic pellets is only a hundred euro or so. Prob much cheaper in China. No way you could collect, sort, grind and recycle old plastic for profit.
In comparison, copper is about 5k a ton, brass about 3k and aluminium about 1.5k (very rough figures). Also, unlike say aluminium, recycled plastic is inferior to virgin plastic.

Plastic recyclers wanted milk bottle manufacturers to stop putting blue and green lids on bottles, cause they have to be manually removed, but consumers didn't like it, so it wasn't done. Recycled plastic is of little benefit to manufacturers, besides the marketing benefit.

The only reason we recycle is because there's nothing else we can do with the waste. Either recycle it, burn it or dump it. Best of a bad bunch.

kowloon · 26-09-2019 11:55pm

Some food wrapping is made of separate layers or coatings of different plastics. It can be difficult to recycle the stuff and very expensive, even if it's clean.

Irish Guitarist · 27-09-2019 7:09am

This young man has set up a business turning plastic bags into bluetooth speakers. It doesn't look particularly environmentally friendly though. It seems to be spewing a lot of toxic chemicals into the air.

kneemos · 27-09-2019 7:44am

Never mind the wrapping. Most recycling material goes to landfill or to be incinerated anyway.
Might as well burn the stuff, it's basically a low grade oil.

27-09-2019 7:51am

Lol at people thinking their recycling bins are recycled.

You know what the material in recycling bins is good at? Burning.

That's why it is mostly all sent to incineration.

kneemos · 27-09-2019 7:58am

salonfire wrote: »

Lol at people thinking their recycling bins are recycled.

You know what the material in recycling bins is good at? Burning.

That's why it is mostly all sent to incineration.

Some use out of it if it's burned. Shipping it thousands of miles to be dumped in landfill is the real disgrace.

Wanderer78 · 27-09-2019 8:00am

salonfire wrote:

That's why it is mostly all sent to incineration.

Is this a fact or.....

kneemos · 27-09-2019 8:25am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Is this a fact or.....

95% of it went to China until they stopped taking it a few years ago.
God knows where it ends up now.

B.A._Baracus · 27-09-2019 8:50am

The whole recyclying thing is a load of balls. Not in the sense of doing it. Just when you view the bigger picture.
Was reading that most spring water/bottled water companies just use new plastics than recycled cause it's cheaper. All about the almighty dollar as the yanks say.

Wanderer78 · 27-09-2019 9:20am

kneemos wrote: »

95% of it went to China until they stopped taking it a few years ago.
God knows where it ends up now.

do we actually have concrete facts on all these 'facts'? im not living in some utopia thinking all our recyclables are actually recycled, but....

kneemos · 27-09-2019 9:28am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

do we actually have concrete facts on all these 'facts'? im not living in some utopia thinking all our recyclables are actually recycled, but....

https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-plastic-waste-3786393-Jan2018/?amp=1

Ragnar Lothbrok · 27-09-2019 9:41am

Threads like these really upset me!

I've spent years now carefully separating all my rubbish and trying to convince my son to do the same (he still fecks soft plastic wrappers into the recycling bin :mad:)

Two of the son's friends started work for a waste collection company after they left school and they used to laugh at me for going to the trouble of recycling as they assured me that not one f*ck was given by the collection company, the vast majority got thrown into the same pile.

It still makes me feel good about myself to recycle though, even when I think about the zero effect I'm having on the environment.

kneemos · 27-09-2019 9:47am

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

Threads like these really upset me!

I've spent years now carefully separating all my rubbish and trying to convince my son to do the same (he still fecks soft plastic wrappers into the recycling bin :mad:)

Two of the son's friends started work for a waste collection company after they left school and they used to laugh at me for going to the trouble of recycling as they assured me that not one f*ck was given by the collection company, the vast majority got thrown into the same pile.

It still makes me feel good about myself to recycle though, even when I think about the zero effect I'm having on the environment.

Paper and metals have a good turnaround. A lot of plastic just isn't recyclable or not economical.

We should by right be looking after it ourselves,not sending it abroad to end up in the environment.

Padre_Pio · 27-09-2019 12:12pm

kneemos wrote: »

Paper and metals have a good turnaround. A lot of plastic just isn't recyclable or not economical.

We should by right be looking after it ourselves,not sending it abroad to end up in the environment.

Because it's economical.

Recycling aluminium takes 95% less energy than producing it from its raw materials. The recycling process also
generates only 5% of the greenhouse gas emissions.

https://www.european-aluminium.eu/media/2275/european-aluminium-press-release-2015canrecyclingresult.pdf

I think paper is 40% cheaper to make from recycled sources.

zom · 27-09-2019 12:39pm

We are unable to recycle gigantic wind turbines - so how could we manage millions of small wrappings???

Ubbquittious · 27-09-2019 12:44pm

zom wrote: »

We are unable to recycle gigantic wind turbines - so how could we manage millions of small wrappings???

Probably regulation that is preventing that from being feasible. I'm sure the friendly traveling community could recycle them quite easily but if you're depending on the turbine operator to do it all by the book it will cost billions

victor8600 · 27-09-2019 12:55pm

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

....It still makes me feel good about myself to recycle though, even when I think about the zero effect I'm having on the environment.

Try to reduce your usage of plastics. Like use a canvas bag for shopping, and choose food items with less plastic wrapping.

Padre_Pio · 27-09-2019 2:38pm

kneemos wrote: »

Paper and metals have a good turnaround. A lot of plastic just isn't recyclable or not economical.

We should by right be looking after it ourselves,not sending it abroad to end up in the environment.

Nothing wrong with sending things abroad.
Energy intensive metal recycling is done in Iceland, where geothermal power means electricity is almost free.

Sending it abroad to be dumped is a different story.
Until there's cash in recycling, nothing will be done.

Biodegradable · 27-09-2019 2:43pm

kneemos wrote: »

We should by right be looking after it ourselves,not sending it abroad to end up in the environment.

You mean to end up in recycling plants abroad? Or do the Chinese just dump it in the sea?

kneemos · 27-09-2019 5:32pm

Biodegradable wrote: »

You mean to end up in recycling plants abroad? Or do the Chinese just dump it in the sea?

A lot of it does get incinerated here and used in cement plants apparently.

27-09-2019 7:16pm

kneemos wrote: »

A lot of it does get incinerated here and used in cement plants apparently.

Much of what exported from here goes to Sweden who are desperate for fuel for their incinerators to keep the lights on.

Biodegradable · 27-09-2019 10:16pm

salonfire wrote: »

Lol at people thinking their recycling bins are recycled.

You know what the material in recycling bins is good at? Burning.

That's why it is mostly all sent to incineration.

I wouldn't be surprised something like 20% of material in recycling bins isn't supposed to be there. But it's always difficult to get a straight answer about this sort of stuff. How did you hear that for example?

Biodegradable · 27-09-2019 10:27pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Plastic recyclers wanted milk bottle manufacturers to stop putting blue and green lids on bottles, cause they have to be manually removed, but consumers didn't like it, so it wasn't done.

If it were done for all brands of milk then the customer couldn't choose. We need a dictator to make it law!

Alf Veedersane · 27-09-2019 10:32pm

Biodegradable wrote: »

kneemos wrote: »

We should by right be looking after it ourselves,not sending it abroad to end up in the environment.

You mean to end up in recycling plants abroad? Or do the Chinese just dump it in the sea?

China doesn't accept plastics from Ireland anymore.

Biodegradable · 28-09-2019 11:52am

kneemos wrote: »

A lot of it does get incinerated here and used in cement plants apparently.

Cement plants? How does that work? Do they grind it up and mix it cement so that the end result is a 1 in 20 mixture of plastic?

kneemos · 28-09-2019 12:38pm

Biodegradable wrote: »

Cement plants? How does that work? Do they grind it up and mix it cement so that the end result is a 1 in 20 mixture of plastic?

There's a kiln involved in the process somehow.

Alf Veedersane · 28-09-2019 2:51pm

Biodegradable wrote: »

Cement plants? How does that work? Do they grind it up and mix it cement so that the end result is a 1 in 20 mixture of plastic?

No. To make cement, you first need to make clinker. To make clinker, you need a kiln. To heat a kiln, you need materials for fuel that have a high calorific value.

cnocbui · 28-09-2019 3:00pm

I used to dutifully separate recyclables. Then not long a go, Tipp CC recycling centre started charging for recyclables and all plastics and mixed paper go in the same bulk bin. As soon as this happened I concluded this stuff was not being recycled at all.

YFlyer · 28-09-2019 3:07pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Films are very difficult to sort.

There's dozens of plastics, but unlike metal, plastics of different types can have near identical weighs, densities, and colours, melting points, magnetic properties, spectral absorbsion etc etc which makes sorting tough at the best of times.

Use a near infrared detector.

Alf Veedersane · 28-09-2019 3:09pm

cnocbui wrote: »

I used to dutifully separate recyclables. Then not long a go, Tipp CC recycling centre started charging for recyclables and all plastics and mixed paper go in the same bulk bin. As soon as this happened I concluded this stuff was not being recycled at all.

It's not being recycled because the recyclables go in the same bin?

faceman · 28-09-2019 3:11pm

80% of what we recycle ends up in landfill or the ocean. We really need to ban single use plastics.

YFlyer · 28-09-2019 3:12pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

do we actually have concrete facts on all these 'facts'? im not living in some utopia thinking all our recyclables are actually recycled, but....

Psst...the collected material in the recycle bins on college campuses around the country are thrown into the same skips as the material in the regular bins.

whodafunk · 28-09-2019 3:14pm

Why is it recycling centres will take plastic packaging to recycle but our bin providers to the best of my knowledge do not recycle this?

I wash out the items I put out for recycling when required but know lots of people who do not. If you think about it my recycling items will end up in with other 'dirty' material hence making mine in recyclable?

Just my own thoughts on this matter.

cnocbui · 28-09-2019 3:38pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's not being recycled because the recyclables go in the same bin?

Obviously. No one is going to pay people 1st world pay rates to manually sort paper from plastics.

Both would have calorific value if burned, so I suspect that's what now happens. The recycling centre used to collect paper egg cartons separate to other types of paper because it was used to make mulch for commercial mushroom growers. No more.

Alf Veedersane · 28-09-2019 3:50pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Obviously. No one is going to pay people 1st world pay rates to manually sort paper from plastics.

All big waste management facilities have a picking line with people doing just that. Sending to landfill or for incineration is costly. If they can reduce that cost by separating out recyclables that they sell through brokers they will because it makes financial sense.

cnocbui wrote: »

Both would have calorific value if burned, so I suspect that's what now happens.

Nothing everything has a high enough calorific value for use in a kiln because the temperatures they need to achieve. There are very strict specs for what is called Refuse Derived Fuel. Cement kilns don't just use waste in the kiln. What they use has to be an alternative fuel that can deliver high temperatures.

Biodegradable · 28-09-2019 5:04pm

YFlyer wrote: »

Psst...the collected material in the recycle bins on college campuses around the country are thrown into the same skips as the material in the regular bins.

That's what I suspect to, but you can't be sure of it! I saw the rubbish truck come along to collect the waste on college one day, and it did not seem like there was any recycling going on.

Biodegradable · 28-09-2019 5:04pm

faceman wrote: »

80% of what we recycle ends up in landfill or the ocean. We really need to ban single use plastics.

Where did you read that?

Padre_Pio · 28-09-2019 5:08pm

YFlyer wrote: »

Use a near infrared detector.

Not worth the money when you can just burn the stuff.

Biodegradable · 28-09-2019 5:09pm

cnocbui wrote: »

The recycling centre used to collect paper egg cartons separate to other types of paper because it was used to make mulch for commercial mushroom growers.

As fertilizer?

Alf Veedersane · 28-09-2019 5:20pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Not worth the money when you can just burn the stuff.

If you're a waste company that has to pay a sizeable gate fee for the incinerator, it very much is worth the money to reduce what you have to send to the incinerator.

Padre_Pio · 28-09-2019 5:36pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

If you're a waste company that has to pay a sizeable gate fee for the incinerator, it very much is worth the money to reduce what you have to send to the incinerator.

Incinerators get paid to take waste and get paid for the energy they generate.

Recycled centres get paid to take waste, but then have to separate and recycle it and sell it.
Recycled plastics are worse quality that virgin, and cost about the same.
No money in it unless governments and grants get involved.
https://www.ptonline.com/articles/2017-a-mixed-bag-for-recycled-plastics-pricing-so-far

Alf Veedersane · 28-09-2019 5:57pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Incinerators get paid to take waste and get paid for the energy they generate.

Recycled centres get paid to take waste, but then have to separate and recycle it and sell it.
Recycled plastics are worse quality that virgin, and cost about the same.
No money in it unless governments and grants get involved.
https://www.ptonline.com/articles/2017-a-mixed-bag-for-recycled-plastics-pricing-so-far

Yes, the incinerators get paid to take waste. By the waste companies who bring it to the incinerators.

Padre_Pio · 28-09-2019 6:02pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Yes, the incinerators get paid to take waste. By the waste companies who bring it to the incinerators.

Sorry, I misread your comment.

I actually don't know what costs and options are open to waste companies. I mean, they have to get rid of it somewhere. We have domestic incinerators, but no domestic plastic recycling. I would have assumed incinerators are the cheapest option. Open to correction though.

Alf Veedersane · 28-09-2019 6:10pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Yes, the incinerators get paid to take waste. By the waste companies who bring it to the incinerators.

Sorry, I misread your comment.

I actually don't know what costs and options are open to waste companies. I mean, they have to get rid of it somewhere. We have domestic incinerators, but no domestic plastic recycling. I would have assumed incinerators are the cheapest option. Open to correction though.

The bigger ones can produce RDF which can be used in cement kilns as a fuel. Ireland isn't big enough for plastic recycling to be economically viable so we're subject to the markets. Once upon a time, clear plastic wrapping was the highest value plastic on a per tonne basis. Not any more.

But they do go through the general waste to recover recyclables cos the more that goes to landfill, the more it costs them. That's why the likes of Panda have installed cameras on recycling trucks, ie to reduce contamination of the recyclables by identifying the bins/houses where there was excessive contamination...like nappies in cereal boxes etc.

YFlyer · 28-09-2019 6:54pm

Biodegradable wrote: »

That's what I suspect to, but you can't be sure of it! I saw the rubbish truck come along to collect the waste on college one day, and it did not seem like there was any recycling going on.

One of the cleaners mentioned it. They're not expected to separate out the waste from bags that are tainted.

Its still promoted on campus. At least it may encourage students and staff to segregate their waste at home.

whisky_galore · 28-09-2019 7:06pm

victor8600 wrote: »

Try to reduce your usage of plastics. Like use a canvas bag for shopping, and choose food items with less plastic wrapping.

Easier said than done, esp when the price of plastic wrapped veg is cheaper than the exact same veg without wrapping. Super Valu I'm looking at you.

Why can't we recycle plastic wrapping? (You can now)

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