RWC 2019 Ireland v Japan Match Thread: Group A - Sat 28th Sep 08:15 Shizuoka

Salary Negotiator · 28-09-2019 11:40AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

We got to number 1 because of results from other games. Ireland had very little hand in it. And just like this pool, we may require other games to work out now to progress.

It’s completely in our hands to qualify, 2 BP wins and we’re through regardless of other results.

The Lost Sheep · 28-09-2019 11:40AM

PTH2009 wrote: »

If we dont get a BP vs Russia than its deff curtains

Max we can get is 16pts
Scotland can get max 15 pts (3x BP wins in there games)
Japan will deff top the Grp with 2 more BP wins (20pts)

Do you see us not getting one against Russia?

Cork Boy 53 · 28-09-2019 11:41AM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

'The Debacle at Lens' is maybe the one you are looking for, but that was far worse. It put us out. This game has no consequences on our wc chances and if anything has the upside of gallantly giving the hosts a nice day in the sun. Everyone's a winner really.

Really? I would say it had a huge bearing as to whether or not Ireland top the pool or not and even second place is far from certain now. Samoa will be no pushovers either.

Dravokivich · 28-09-2019 11:41AM

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

It’s completely in our hands to qualify, 2 BP wins and we’re through regardless of other results.

You expect that, after this game?

Dravokivich · 28-09-2019 11:42AM

PTH2009 wrote: »

If we dont get a BP vs Russia than its deff curtains

Max we can get is 16pts
Scotland can get max 15 pts (3x BP wins in there games)
Japan will deff top the Grp with 2 more BP wins (20pts)

How does Japan get 20?

reg114 · 28-09-2019 11:42AM

Predicted a loss to Japan a few weeks ago on here and it gives me zero pleasure for that prediction to be borne out.

Let me explode the myth that warm up games are not important. We had a shocking build up and it was suggested Joe was holding something in reserve. Nonsense. Winning is a habit. This team has zero momentum this calendar year. Muscle memory can only take you so far. We had a poor 6 nations too.

Joe as I've said before has been a revelation but in 2018 his performance and this teams have fallen off a cliff. If we are going to heap praise on him in good times then he has to take criticism at this juncture. I believe his style of play is redundant at this stage. The dogs in the street know running rugby is the way to go. Japan played with such lightning pace it made out lot look like oaps. Japans instinct is to whip the ball out wide, within 5 seconds the ball has passed through multiple hands. Ireland however receive the ball and go straight into contact burying heads in the turf, ruck after ruck after ruck, it's beyond dull and no longer effective.

Again, Japan were always going to play their pacey game and buoyed by playing in front of their home crowd, today's result was very very predictable. We saw a passion, focus and relentless intensity from the hosts, from Ireland we saw slow, one dimensional, uninspired, clumsiness that has characterised Irelands play this year.

We should beat Russia and scrape past Samoa but we haven't a hope of beating South Africa lads.

johnnyskeleton · 28-09-2019 11:42AM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

1) From the thread, it seems the ref was truly extraordinarily bad. Was he bad enough to suggest he was under instructions to deliver a home result if at all feasible?

There were two missed penalties against Japan I felt. The first was that Carty was picked up and dumped on his side, but from a reasonably low height and he tucked his legs in deliberately. A penalty I think, but not a card and I think they had scrum advantage anyway. The second was the interference in the ruck around 75 mins which was a crucial point in the match but was somewhat marginal.

As against that, there were a few bad Irish tackles that went unnoticed, and POM possibly deserved a yellow for repeated infringement.

Overall, therefore, there wasn't anything biased about the refereeing. In a technical game like rugby, and especially during a world cup group match, you can't ask for a perfect referee.

Navanboyo · 28-09-2019 11:42AM

Gamb!t wrote: »

Surely the first half was better than the second half as we led at half time and scored two tries ?
Dont agree with that either as I think it seems to have had the Alex Ferguson effect like he announced his first retirement in 2002 and the team struggled that season.

Squidgy Black · 28-09-2019 11:43AM

PTH2009 wrote: »

If we dont get a BP vs Russia than its deff curtains

Max we can get is 16pts
Scotland can get max 15 pts (3x BP wins in there games)
Japan will deff top the Grp with 2 more BP wins (20pts)

Again, Japan can't finish on 20 points and Scotland on 15, they've to play each other.

The only way we miss out is if we don't get a BP against Russia and Samoa, and we finish on 14, Scotland beat Japan with a BP and finish on 15, and Japan beat Samoa with a BP and get a LBP against Scotland and finish on 15.

Salary Negotiator · 28-09-2019 11:45AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

You expect that, after this game?

Yeah, I do. Russia will be straightforward and the extra days rest will tell against Samoa.

Clegg · 28-09-2019 11:45AM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

The theory is based on three things:
1) Ireland have beaten NZ twice of out three recently whereas the resurgent SA are something of an unknown quantity;
2) that the South African heavy pack and agile wingers will be harder for Ireland to defend than NZ's all round good team;
3) Ireland will give their all against NZ in the Quarter Final, whereas, like 2015, they might underestimate SA in the Quarters.

Personally, I think this is more of a "hot take" than a reliable analysis. Just look at how well NZ played against Australia and in their opener against SA, and it's clear that SA would be a better Quarter Final draw for Ireland (or indeed for any team).

I'd much rather we play SA if we make it to the QF. They really only play one way. They've a monster pack that will brutalise you for as long as they can. But if you can withstand that pummelling, or at least keep the scoreboard low, you've a chance of beating them when their level inevitably drops.

Yes, they have a lightning back three, but their centres are just sightly smaller versions of their forwards. They'll keep trucking the ball up and taking contact. If you're defence can withstand the onslaught their back three will live off scraps.

NZ can beat you about 10 different ways. Their pack isn't quite as big as South Africa's, but will bully you if you don't front up. The double playmaking pivot at 10 and 15 ensures that your defence cannot overcommit to one or the other, their centres are decent carriers and passing options so the ball goes quickly to the back three as well. Their back three are all good fielders, counter attackers and haven't a problem trucking it up when necessary.

We've beaten NZ twice in three years. But everyone on the pitch was playing their absolute best. To beat SA I think we could get away with one or two players underperforming so long as our pack and half backs play well.

wazzer1 · 28-09-2019 11:46AM

How can Ireland still top the group?

highgiant1985 · 28-09-2019 11:46AM

PTH2009 wrote: »

If we dont get a BP vs Russia than its deff curtains

Max we can get is 16pts
Scotland can get max 15 pts (3x BP wins in there games)
Japan will deff top the Grp with 2 more BP wins (20pts)

Scotland/Japan play each other though so at least one of them is dropping points.

If Japan win - that'll be top of the group for them and us second (assuming we beat Russia/Samoa)

If Scotland win - what bonus points the teams could decide who's top / second.

awec · 28-09-2019 11:47AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

You expect that, after this game?

Yes.

We will bonus point both Russia and Samoa.

Squidgy Black · 28-09-2019 11:47AM

wazzer1 wrote: »

How can Ireland still top the group?

If Scotland beat Japan and Japan don't get a LBP, and we get at least one TBP vs Russia or Samoa we top the group.

Clegg · 28-09-2019 11:48AM

wazzer1 wrote: »

How can Ireland still top the group?

We need try bonus wins against Russia and Samoa and for Scotland or Samoa to beat Japan.

Navanboyo · 28-09-2019 11:48AM

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Again, Japan can't finish on 20 points and Scotland on 15, they've to play each other.

The only way we miss out is if we don't get a BP against Russia and Samoa, and we finish on 14, Scotland beat Japan with a BP and finish on 15, and Japan beat Samoa with a BP and get a LBP against Scotland and finish on 15.

I think we will qualify, the issue is after that defeat is how we respond to it in a quarter final.

There is a fear that this defeat bursts their bubble and drains confidence away so it may be this was a defining moment for us in the tournament.

I'm not ruling out a big response but i dont think anyone could be confident after watching that.

Kermit.de.frog · 28-09-2019 11:49AM

The chances of Scotland beating Japan who will be well up for it and were the better team against Ireland seems not that likely.

Fair play to them. Seeing how happy they were - that is what sport is all about.

Ireland beaten by the better team.

No complaints.

ThunbergsAreGo · 28-09-2019 11:50AM

Salary Negotiator wrote: »

Dravokivich wrote: »

We got to number 1 because of results from other games. Ireland had very little hand in it. And just like this pool, we may require other games to work out now to progress.

It’s completely in our hands to qualify, 2 BP wins and we’re through regardless of other results.

Yeah and likely top as well

The Lost Sheep · 28-09-2019 11:50AM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

There were two missed penalties against Japan I felt. The first was that Carty was picked up and dumped on his side, but from a reasonably low height and he tucked his legs in deliberately. A penalty I think, but not a card and I think they had scrum advantage anyway. The second was the interference in the ruck around 75 mins which was a crucial point in the match but was somewhat marginal.

As against that, there were a few bad Irish tackles that went unnoticed, and POM possibly deserved a yellow for repeated infringement.

Overall, therefore, there wasn't anything biased about the refereeing. In a technical game like rugby, and especially during a world cup group match, you can't ask for a perfect referee.

Carty incident not a penalty. Picked up yes but landed on side. Danger was low. Low height as you say. Maybe could have given penalty. I probably wouldnt.
No bias in refereeing at all.

MrMusician18 · 28-09-2019 11:51AM

Another inglorious quarter final exit beckons then?

manofwisdom · 28-09-2019 11:53AM

Not sure what was worse, losing to Japan or going 60 minutes without scoring against them. Ranking systems based highly on challenge results must be scrapped.

votecounts · 28-09-2019 11:53AM

Disappionted isn't the word, but we have really have some serious questions to answer after that game, some players need to have a good look at themselves in mirror.:(
Fair play to Japan, they wanted it a lot more than us,huge win for them and their fans

FrancieBrady · 28-09-2019 11:54AM

I think Samoa will be eyeing up Japan now. Very winnable game for them now.
Group has been opened wide.

ClanofLams · 28-09-2019 11:54AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The chances of Scotland beating Japan who will be well up for it and were the better team against Ireland seems not that likely.

Fair play to them. Seeing how happy they were - that is what sport is all about.

Ireland beaten by the better team.

No complaints.

Fair play to Japan, outstanding today and fully deserved. Be difficult for Scotland against the hosts but unlike today, huge pressure on the Japanese too in what will essentially be a knock out game. Very different psychological challenge to being twenty point underdogs and having nothing to lose.

GreeBo · 28-09-2019 11:56AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think Samoa will be eyeing up Japan now. Very winnable game for them now.
Group has been opened wide.

Why would this result make Japan an easier target??

Dravokivich · 28-09-2019 11:56AM

awec wrote: »

Yes.

We will bonus point both Russia and Samoa.

Samoa was the game everyone I spoke with had down as the game they expected to be attrittional, where getting through it with anything would have been the focus. We are going into both needing 10/10 and I think that's a lot to expect. We went into this game today expecting 5/5.

wazzer1 · 28-09-2019 11:57AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think Samoa will be eyeing up Japan now. Very winnable game for them now.
Group has been opened wide.

Id say they'll be eyeing up Ireland as well.

FrancieBrady · 28-09-2019 11:59AM

GreeBo wrote: »

Why would this result make Japan an easier target??

Effort has costs. Do Japan have the necessary tournament level strength in depth?

Debatable.
If I were Samoa looking a win then I'd be targeting that game.

GreeBo · 28-09-2019 12:02PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Effort has costs. Do Japan have the necessary tournament level strength in depth?

Debatable.
If I were Samoa looking a win then I'd be targeting that game.

And winning is a habit..if anyone Id say they are looking at Scotland
Anyway Samoa are down a significant number of players..remains to be seen how the Japanese lads fare

RWC 2019 Ireland v Japan Match Thread: Group A - Sat 28th Sep 08:15 Shizuoka

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