Room to Improve.

Muahahaha · 26-09-2019 01:55PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

What I found funny about the pebble dash was the guy said everybody who comes in says they love it.
I was like you hardly go into somebodies house and say you hate it.

The exact same comment was made in my house while watching it on Sunday- if they were your friends and you visited their new house you would be saying you like the pebble dash on the inside. But as soon as you're in the car driving away you're saying 'what the hell were they thinking'. It might be two faced but thats the reality of it, no-one is going to critique their friends houses like that.

Idbatterim · 26-09-2019 01:55PM

Its one thing to introduce aspects of design to a build and see if the client *might* like them and go with that. But when the client say that they explicitly hate something then the architect is duty bound to listen to them and take their instruction instead of treating them as"idiots with too much money" as you say. Instead what we got was the architect brow beating them into submission on an aspect they hated. This was Bannon trying to create drama for TV, it was not him acting in their best interests and actually listening to what the like and what they dont like and going from there like a professional architect should. Theres a huge smack of 'Dermot knows better' and a level of arrogance on his behalf.

i think they are more likely to go with his ideas, even if they dont like them, as they are on TV. Sure what would those idiots know about their own taste, isnt dermot bannon the expert? they risk looking like fools to some of the public and that would be a large concern to joe soap here...

Muahahaha · 26-09-2019 02:10PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

i think they are more likely to go with his ideas, even if they dont like them, as they are on TV. Sure what would those idiots know about their own taste, isnt dermot bannon the expert? they risk looking like fools to some of the public and that would be a large concern to joe soap here...

Oh Id agree and there was definitely an element of them being Dermot Bannon superfans and therefore they found it very hard to stand up to him and disagree. Look how hard it was for the wife to say no to the plywood kitchen, it was a real struggle for her as she weighed up her own tastes against a brow beating Dermot Bannon telling them it is gorgeous. She walked in the house in Sandymount and immediately did not like it the plywood kitchen and this was clearly written all over her face. But yet we still had to endure Dermot trying to force her into something she didn't like.

A good architect would listen, rethink and find something that they do like and when they see it the decision is made within seconds on first impressions. But as this is for TV we have to have the 'drama'. Don't get me wrong it is entertaining viewing but I just think that the entertainment and drama Bannon provides can sometimes be at the expense of the client ending up with something they dont like to start with and likely never will.

Idbatterim · 26-09-2019 02:16PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Oh Id agree and there was definitely an element of them being Dermot Bannon superfans and therefore they found it very hard to stand up to him and disagree. Look how hard it was for the wife to say no to the plywood kitchen, it was a real struggle for her as she weighed up her own tastes against a brow beating Dermot Bannon telling them it is gorgeous. She walked in the house in Sandymount and immediately did not like it the plywood kitchen and this was clearly written all over her face. But yet we still had to endure Dermot trying to force her into something she didn't like.

A good architect would listen, rethink and find something that they do like and when they see it the decision is made within seconds on first impressions. But as this is for TV we have to have the 'drama'. Don't get me wrong it is entertaining viewing but I just think that the entertainment and drama Bannon provides can sometimes be at the expense of the client ending up with something they dont like to start with and likely never will.

I agree, its not like wall you just change the colour, a kitchen is bloody expensive. The tv aspect just changes the dynamic, it needs to be a compromise, bannon isnt going to be seen to change all of his proposals either. I personally dont mind the pebble dash, I wonder was it power washed down. The man cave room, is personal taste and is extremely easy to change to bland colour at any point. Its easy to spend mad money, I hope they dont have a problem repaying it at some point!

turbbo · 26-09-2019 02:30PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

At the end of the day people hate stuff and you're not going to change their mind on it.

That is NOT a fact - I know plenty of people that have gone from hating something to loving it - including myself.

Muahahaha wrote: »

I hate baked beans and if you got the worlds best Michilen starred chef to cook them for me I will still hate them, you cant polish a turd. Pebble dash falls into that category, if you don't like it to begin with it is not going to 'grow on you'.

Food taste and taste in architecture are NOT the same - usually tastes in food are developed at a very young age in some cases like yours are almost hardwired - I don't think taste in architecture or design falls into the "hardwired" category, usually people can be won over by design - i.e. you might not like it to begin with but it will grow on you - etc.

Muahahaha wrote: »

And if it was such a nice matieral to clad a building in then why are no new houses using it? I see brand new houses clad with brick, granite and even timber but never pebble dash. There's a very good reason for that- people at large dont like it.

Like all finishes/designs - it becomes a fashion for a period in time - it's not fashionable at the moment I agree - doesn't mean you need to destroy it if it already exists. Lots of gothic architecture would not be fashionable today doesn't mean you'd rip down the Notre-Dame.

Sleepy · 26-09-2019 02:56PM

For those giving out about the budget, take a look at this week's grand designs for a lesson in what can be done with very little cash. Timescale goes out the window mind!

Muahahaha · 26-09-2019 03:02PM

turbbo wrote: »

Food taste and taste in architecture are NOT the same - usually tastes in food are developed at a very young age in some cases like yours are almost hardwired - I don't think taste in architecture or design falls into the "hardwired" category, usually people can be won over by design - i.e. you might not like it to begin with but it will grow on you - etc.

Would disagree, you can easily have entrenched views and tastes on certain types of architecture- one key example is brutalism- it completely divides opinion even amongst architects themselves. You either like it or you don't and many people fall into the latter category and will never change their minds. Dublin is littered with Sam Stephensons brutalist architecture and there really isnt much love for it, it hasn't grown on people and if it was proposed to knock it down there wouldn't be much complaint.

To be clear Im not saying everything design wise cannot grow on you if you dont immediately like it- people can and do grow to like design such as seen with the Eiffel Tower which was much maligned by Parisians when it was first constructed but is loved universally today. But the likes of pebble dash does not and will never fall into the Eiffel Tower category.

Bricks and stone have been used to clad buildings for hundreds of years now and as materials they have stood the test of time and are still widely used today. Pebble dash is a creation of 1960s Ireland when matierals were expensive to import and builders had to find ways to save money. It deserves to stay in the 1960s and it will never come back into fashion over bricks and stone which transcend trends that have come and gone.

Idbatterim · 26-09-2019 03:29PM

just went looking for information on the grand designs project another poster mentioned, think it aired yesterday. Now that is a project! Kind of bored of room to improve. In general mundane boring properties, big budget!

Its not much of a challenge in fairness, well paying paying the money back will be, but I mean the projects themselves...

turbbo · 26-09-2019 03:49PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

just went looking for information on the grand designs project another poster mentioned, think it aired yesterday. Now that is a project! Kind of bored of room to improve. In general mundane boring properties, big budget!

Its not much of a challenge in fairness, well paying paying the money back will be, but I mean the projects themselves...

RTI has become a tad repetitive - always a fixer upper never a ground up project guess they would need to change the title for that to work.

Grand Designs can be a bit hit and miss too though - I've watched it over the years and it has changed a lot - again you can see the "fashion" aspect to a lot of the projects over the years. I wouldn't be too critical of RTI as these shows go - what was that awful one years ago on RTE that seemed to be all about how much insulation you used in the walls, the guy didn't give a $****e about the layout or design just how many mms of insulation. Although in a way a good mix of the technical spec and design aspects would in my mind make a better quality show. Grand Designs back in the day was exactly that - they usually covered a lot about the engineering and why you would install one type of heating over another etc. That stuff is interesting to people I think - although they don't do that stuff now either.

LizT · 26-09-2019 06:43PM

Sleepy wrote: »

For those giving out about the budget, take a look at this week's grand designs for a lesson in what can be done with very little cash. Timescale goes out the window mind!

It was interesting but he did the vast majority of work by himself. That’s not feasible/desirable for most people and labour makes up a huge part of the budget for building projects.

Sleepy · 27-09-2019 09:58AM

LizT wrote: »

It was interesting but he did the vast majority of work by himself. That’s not feasible/desirable for most people and labour makes up a huge part of the budget for building projects.

Oh, I know that. Most of us don't have the luxury of spending 5 years building a home but some do and, ime, you really can teach yourself how to do most jobs yourself. Obviously, there's legislation in place limiting what you can do but most of us are capable of tackling quite a lot of the work ourselves.

Muahahaha · 27-09-2019 01:37PM

The Grand Design house owners tend to be more hands on with a good few building it themselves and others project managing it and hiring direct labour. Its a different type of program from Room to Improve where the owners are generally hands off. Grand Designs also seems to have a lot of architects/engineers building their own houses, people who have a solid knowledge and experience of building houses from scratch.

meeeeh · 27-09-2019 02:12PM

They are completely different shows. One is about architect advising people what they can do with the property they have and recording a few hiccups and design issues in between. The other is about implementation of the design. Grand Designs steps in a few stages later and films and concentrates on building processes, financing and challenges process throws at people. Very often architect of the design doesn't even feature. I like both but even Grand Designs wouldn't be for people who don't like flat roofs or big windows. Very few projects are made on little money.

We did a lot ourselves, we used s crane we (well business) owned when putting together timber frame, timber frame including windows and entrance doors was imported and cheaper for better quality, we had trade contacts for certain materials (we are not in building sector) and there was nothing left from 335k mortgage + more. We were building in 08/09.We probably aren't people with exactly cheapest taste and our budgeting is nonexistent but I just don't believe in astronomical savings people expect. Maybe if you are not in full time employment or have loads of friends and family who are prepared to work for free. Self builds are expensive. Unless you own very expensive land in most cases buying existing property would be cheaper. The advantage of self build is that you build house the way you want it to be.

seannash · 27-09-2019 02:24PM

meeeeh wrote: »

We were building in 08/09.We probably aren't people with exactly cheapest taste and our budgeting is nonexistent but I just don't believe in astronomical savings people expect. Maybe if you are not in full time employment or have loads of friends and family who are prepared to work for free. Self builds are expensive. Unless you own very expensive land in most cases buying existing property would be cheaper. The advantage of self build is that you build house the way you want it to be.

I understand you dont believe it but some (Including myself) are doing it.
One big ticket item I got quotes for was Crittall style screen. The quotes I got in Ireland ranged from 16k to 24k.
I got them custom made in England for 3500GBP. All it took was some research and some emails sent. That's a very big saving in anyones budget. Throw in your window budget (As you did) and Kitchen budget and I think you'll see a lot of savings can be made very very easily with just a bit of effort.

I dont think anyone would deny that the cost of building a house is high but for what you paid you probably have a very big house. RTI doesn't give them a massive house to go along with the massive budget. They get a normal sized house at a very very inflated price

Also just in terms of taste. I'm not sure people can have expensive taste. They have taste and buy accordingly. Perhaps some items your drawn to are more expensive but people can have bad taste and spend a fortune on it (The Grand designs episode recently where this couple built beside a lake they owned springs to mind)

Apologies for digressing again.

Sleepy · 27-09-2019 02:30PM

seannash wrote: »

Also just in terms of taste. I'm not sure people can have expensive taste. They have taste and buy accordingly.

I'd disagree with you on this aspect. I could introduce you to quite a few women I know whose "taste" is influenced by the price tag more than the product/style.

Fools and their money and all that!

meeeeh · 27-09-2019 02:31PM

seannash wrote: »

I understand you dont believe it but some (Including myself) are doing it.
One big ticket item I got quotes for was Crittall style screen. The quotes I got in Ireland ranged from 16k to 24k.
I got them custom made in England for 3500GBP. All it took was some research and some emails sent. That's a very big saving in anyones budget. Throw in your window budget (As you did) and Kitchen budget and I think you'll see a lot of savings can be made very very easily with just a bit of effort.

I dont think anyone would deny that the cost of building a house is high but for what you paid you probably have a very big house. RTI doesn't give them a massive house to go along with the massive budget. They get a normal sized house at a very very inflated price

Also just in terms of taste. I'm not sure people can have expensive taste. They have taste and buy accordingly. Perhaps some items your drawn to are more expensive but people can have bad taste and spend a fortune on it (The Grand designs episode recently where this couple built beside a lake they owned springs to mind)

Apologies for digressing again.

But you are spending 140k if I remember correctly on an extension. If you went for couple of high cost items like underfloor heating and heat pump you could end tens of thousands. It's not that cheap. I think our house is around 280sqm, I have sneaky suspicion that when you do cost per sqm a lot of cheap extensions would turn out a lot less cheap.

seannash · 27-09-2019 02:44PM

meeeeh wrote: »

But you are spending 140k if I remember correctly on an extension. If you went for couple of high cost items like underfloor heating and heat pump you could end tens of thousands. It's not that cheap. I think our house is around 280sqm, I have sneaky suspicion that when you do cost per sqm a lot of cheap extensions would turn out a lot less cheap.

Double height extension and whole house renovation (Stripped back to bare ceiling joists and brick on each floor, new heating, plumbing and wiring) for 140k

Also on a listed building which brings extra cost.
Absolutely agree that the heat pump and underfloor will cost but not everyone has to or wants to go with that.

seannash · 27-09-2019 02:47PM

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd disagree with you on this aspect. I could introduce you to quite a few women I know whose "taste" is influenced by the price tag more than the product/style.

Fools and their money and all that!

:)No absolutely agree, some people just go for the pricetag. Which is totally fine. I just think that your taste is your taste regardless of budget. Everyone will agree that out there somewhere is a ferarri they find beautiful.We agree its lovely. Our taste is saying its a beautiful car but not many can afford it. Its still suits your taste just not your budget if you get me.

seannash · 27-09-2019 02:52PM

By the way I'm in no way saying that people who spend that amount of money are foolish, not at all. Go for it.
I just think that on RTI they overpay for what they get and would love to see someone challenge the figures or show a different way of doing it all with Dermot on board

meeeeh · 27-09-2019 03:02PM

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd disagree with you on this aspect. I could introduce you to quite a few women I know whose "taste" is influenced by the price tag more than the product/style.

Fools and their money and all that!

Just to be clear I was talking of using marble hall and kitchen (got a bit of discount on it because good friends family own the business, not in Ireland), similarly we went for solid oak flooring and curved staircase. It's not essential stuff by any means but we were building for life. We didn't have sitting room for about 6 years until we could afford sofas we liked. We are still adding some furniture pieces. It's not that I like the big price tags, it is the quality we wanted and I'm not apologising for that.

Addle · 27-09-2019 03:04PM

What difference would it may to the show if they never mentioned the budget?

seannash · 27-09-2019 03:09PM

Addle wrote: »

What difference would it may to the show if they never mentioned the budget?

It adds to the drama to be honest. It would also work in reverse if the cost was very cheap and they got a fabulous house.

Addle · 27-09-2019 03:18PM

I saw a gardening show on British tv yesterday where people chose between an old gardening tv personality and Chelsea flower show competitors.
They had a budget of £2,500 for a tiny garden and the result was laughably sh!t.

seannash · 27-09-2019 03:24PM

Addle wrote: »

I saw a gardening show on British tv yesterday where people chose between an old gardening tv personality and Chelsea flower show competitors.
They had a budget of £2,500 for a tiny garden and the result was laughably sh!t.

Theres no way to say this without sounding confrontational which im not trying to be but whats your point

Addle · 27-09-2019 03:27PM

That low budgets don’t mean a good show.

seannash · 27-09-2019 03:33PM

Addle wrote: »

That low budgets don’t mean a good show.

And high budgets dont guarantee good shows.
Surely a balance is achievable, good show with a smaller budget.

Sleepy · 27-09-2019 03:43PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Just to be clear I was talking of using marble hall and kitchen (got a bit of discount on it because good friends family own the business, not in Ireland), similarly we went for solid oak flooring and curved staircase. It's not essential stuff by any means but we were building for life. We didn't have sitting room for about 6 years until we could afford sofas we liked. We are still adding some furniture pieces. It's not that I like the big price tags, it is the quality we wanted and I'm not apologising for that.

Sorry, I wasn't referring to you, just thinking of a particular friend's wife who, no matter what you showed her would opt for whatever's more expensive purely because it's expensive.

I'd agree that it can be worth prioritising your spend towards the "permanent" stuff and leaving furnishing etc. for later. We've done similar in ours: the suite in the living room is a cousin's old one and the furniture is all low end IKEA stuff. We put our money into the kitchen and bathroom instead. And even there, the taps, bath etc. were all sourced online / from adverts.

Sleepy · 27-09-2019 03:47PM

seannash wrote: »

And high budgets dont guarantee good shows.
Surely a balance is achievable, good show with a smaller budget.

I think a balance is to do a mix of budgets TBH.

All projects come down to three variables: Budget, Time and Quality. You can have two of the three: Cheap and High Quality means long time scales (and doing a lot of the work yourself). Fast and Cheap = ****e quality, Fast and Quality means expensive etc. etc. etc.

So far this season at least, RTI has featured projects focused on speed and quality. It'd be nice to see them show some that focus on Budget and Quality (or even Budget and Speed so we can all have a good laugh at the monstrosity).

nuac · 27-09-2019 10:09PM

Also many with young families avoid expensive furniture until the children have grown a little

Charlie19 · 27-09-2019 11:42PM

I watched an episode of Grand Designs from 2014 were an architect from Derry built his own home on the family farm out of 4 shipping containers.

This project finished off at the highest level of standard and came in at £135000. He did spend £16000 on a hammock styled bath but overall the home was special.

Some difference in the price compared to what Dermot would offer.

Room to Improve.

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