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Greta thunberg, climate hero or trojan horse?

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    #32
    beejee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    Roadtoad wrote: »
    What if she's right?

    Of course shes right. Just as I would be right to say that endangered species is a "bad thing"

    Its not some earth-shattering question of right or wrong. Its the "why" behind it all, and as Ive already mentioned above, there is some very questionable stuff at the background of this.


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    #33
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    It's taken Trump to start revealing holes in some liberal arguments. And I say that as a fairly centrist person.
    Used to be the Democrats were good, the Republicans everyone to be allowed to shoot everyone else, and that was that.
    But the extent to which traditionally liberal outlets are going to insult Trump are so cheap and childish, they're almost worse than Fox News ever was. And it's incessant. Overkill. An agenda, if you are that way inclined.
    It's like they have just ALWAYS had the higher moral ground and now that he has stamped his feet and said no a few times, they just don't know what to do other than throw tantrums to get him out of office.

    He is a spectacularly distasteful, odious human but the man didn't become a billionaire by being as stupid as people make him out to be.
    I don't and won't support him or his ways and means but there has to be something more to it than simply "he's a buffoon and the American voters are all idiots".

    I believe the climate is changing but I'll reserve judgement as to why for now. But take this thought away if nothing else.
    Boards weather forum has a consistent contributing expert for a decade or so now who is a research climatologist (so consistently that we have no reason to doubt him any more than any other conspiracy theory), and he isn't convinced that climate change is not just natural cycle.
    (This post and the one after it: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105813383&postcount=48)


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    #34
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    beejee wrote: »
    What if its a means of manipulating people into voting for very damaging policies that achieves nothing other than making a few people extremely wealthy, at the expense of everyone else, that ends up doing nothing for the environment anyway?

    I saw bits of that video she had recently about carbon eating machines. It's just spoonfed nonsense that doesn't inform people. Im at a loss now who her target audience is.


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    #35
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    I'm worried about the young generation. Talk about being told you have no future!

    It's chicken little once again. I've seen many variants of it over my lifetime. I'm sure I'll see some more before my inevitable personal extinction.

    I will carry on living as I do. I'm a bit too cynical to be listening to children. I used to be one.

    Anyone here look back at the way you were at 16 and think you know less now? I sure as hell don't. Greta should be in school learning to question the status quo, not to just advocate it.


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    #36
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Forty Seven wrote: »
    I'm worried about the young generation. Talk about being told you have no future!

    It's chicken little once again. I've seen many variants of it over my lifetime. I'm sure I'll see some more before my inevitable personal extinction.

    I will carry on living as I do. I'm a bit too cynical to be listening to children. I used to be one.

    Anyone here look back at the way you were at 16 and think you know less now? I sure as hell don't. Greta should be in school learning to question the status quo, not to just advocate it.

    Is she not questioning the status quo here though?


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    #37
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    There is some amount of effort could into discrediting her.

    Shouldn't that be the story?


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    #38
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    Ward J. Littell wrote: »
    Forty Seven wrote: »
    I'm worried about the young generation. Talk about being told you have no future!

    It's chicken little once again. I've seen many variants of it over my lifetime. I'm sure I'll see some more before my inevitable personal extinction.

    I will carry on living as I do. I'm a bit too cynical to be listening to children. I used to be one.

    Anyone here look back at the way you were at 16 and think you know less now? I sure as hell don't. Greta should be in school learning to question the status quo, not to just advocate it.

    Is she not questioning the status quo here though?

    Clearly not. We've been heavily sold global warming for decades. She's just regurgitating the party line. I was reading what she's spouting before she was an itch in her dad's pants.


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    #39
    Selenophile
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭Selenophile


    beejee wrote: »
    I have nothing against the girl or the overall message of looking after the environment, but theres some real stinkers attached to this story, and my worry/vexation is that its all a load of gobbledygook in order to make some people very wealthy...and that's all it will achieve.

    Hence the cynicism. But I'll read a bit more and draw my own conclusions.
    Well, at the moment we are making some other people very wealthy, so a son of some Persian Gulf sheikh can spend a million dollars a day just to fight his own boredom; or some Texas redneck spending fortunes on prostitutes and in casinos in Las Vegas.
    But on a more serious note, yes, some people will become rich. Those are the entrepreneurs that will come with products and solutions that will fit in or even combat climate emergency. Just like IT revolution brought huge change and made some individuals very rich, so it will be with this new revolution.

    The part where you and me differ is that you think that the whole story about the climate change is made up so that some bad people become rich on expense of simple folks. My opinion is that such theories come from fossil fuels industry that is doomed if the World abandon their products.

    sdanseo wrote: »
    It's taken Trump to start revealing holes in some liberal arguments.

    ...
    I believe the climate is changing but I'll reserve judgement as to why for now. But take this thought away if nothing else.
    Boards weather forum has a consistent contributing expert for a decade or so now who is a research climatologist (so consistently that we have no reason to doubt him any more than any other conspiracy theory), and he isn't convinced that climate change is not just natural cycle.
    Climate change and its causes are scientific facts. They are not dogmas of some religious system; they are not foundations or aims of some ideology. That means they have nothing to do with liberal or any other ideological arguments. It also means that Trump, nor any other person that is not climate scientist is not entitled to opinion. Just like I'm not entitled to have an opinion about what would be the best therapy for some sick person, because I'm not a doctor.


    The whole idea that behind climate change emergency is some leftist agenda to tax people and redistribute wealth has one very specific flow: you can fight climate change applying any ideological view from extreme right to extreme left. As an example, you can tax the hell out of people driving diesel cars, or you can reduce taxes on electric cars, and give huge tax credits to electric car makers and dealers. You can ban private vehicles and force people to use public transport. Or you can nuke 90% of the mankind and allow the rest to do whatever they want because they are of more worthy then others. There are many solutions. Instead of trying to undermine the scientific consensus because we don't like the necessary changes, we should concentrate on finding best solutions to the problem in democratic way, before some maniac come with "The final solution", and usually such characters become important in times of great crisis.


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    #40
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Selenophile wrote: »
    Well, at the moment we are making some other people very wealthy, so a son of some Persian Gulf sheikh can spend a million dollars a day just to fight his own boredom; or some Texas redneck spending fortunes on prostitutes and in casinos in Las Vegas.
    But on a more serious note, yes, some people will become rich. Those are the entrepreneurs that will come with products and solutions that will fit in or even combat climate emergency. Just like IT revolution brought huge change and made some individuals very rich, so it will be with this new revolution.

    The part where you and me differ is that you think that the whole story about the climate change is made up so that some bad people become rich on expense of simple folks. My opinion is that such theories come from fossil fuels industry that is doomed if the World abandon their products.



    Climate change and its causes are scientific facts. They are not dogmas of some religious system; they are not foundations or aims of some ideology. That means they have nothing to do with liberal or any other ideological arguments. It also means that Trump, nor any other person that is not climate scientist is not entitled to opinion. Just like I'm not entitled to have an opinion about what would be the best therapy for some sick person, because I'm not a doctor.


    The whole idea that behind climate change emergency is some leftist agenda to tax people and redistribute wealth has one very specific flow: you can fight climate change applying any ideological view from extreme right to extreme left. As an example, you can tax the hell out of people driving diesel cars, or you can reduce taxes on electric cars, and give huge tax credits to electric car makers and dealers. You can ban private vehicles and force people to use public transport. Or you can nuke 90% of the mankind and allow the rest to do whatever they want because they are of more worthy then others. There are many solutions. Instead of trying to undermine the scientific consensus because we don't like the necessary changes, we should concentrate on finding best solutions to the problem in democratic way, before some maniac come with "The final solution", and usually such characters become important in times of great crisis.

    While I've been clear that personally I'm not convinced (in either direction) yet, what you've basically said there is that no one else is entitled to an opinion on the matter of climate change but that your opinion is it's a done deal.

    If that isn't narcissistic I don't know what is. Weren't all those final solution nutjobs narcissists?


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    #41
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,275 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    beejee wrote: »
    Akrasia wrote: »
    All this ‘further reading’ you’ve been doing...

    Where have you been getting this reading from?

    Do you think those sources are reliable and do not have a pre existing agenda to discredit anyone who speaks in favor of action on climate change?

    I can discern bullshyt very quickly. I also haven't done very much reading on the subject, but I have come across some very interesting things.

    For example, that there was a PR company involved with the girl before anything of note happened. The same PR company that were involved with her mothers book launch. The first picture of her sitting all lonesome at the side of a building wasn't a random picture someone took, it was orchestrated by the PR company, and was picked up by a suspiciously large number of news agencies in the country. If true, and I'll determine that as I go along, then it reeks of manipulation for profit.

    The other interesting thing is the new financial tech company that started at the same time, who had the girl on board as a "special contact" or some such, and that this financial tech company has the explicit aim to open up new areas of wealth creation through new "climate based" measures, one such targeted area being pensions, that they would be divested as a means to combat climate change. Sounds very suspicious.

    I have nothing against the girl or the overall message of looking after the environment, but theres some real stinkers attached to this story, and my worry/vexation is that its all a load of gobbledygook in order to make some people very wealthy...and that's all it will achieve.

    Hence the cynicism. But I'll read a bit more and draw my own conclusions.
    so because she didn’t do this entirely all on her own with no help from anyone she must be a stooge?

    If a 16 year old gets to Manchester United’s youth academy they’ll have had years of support from their parents and club bringing them to training camps and matches etc. All these petty personal attacks against her are transparently orchestrated by the climate change denial industry.


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    #42
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Akrasia wrote: »
    so because she didn’t do this entirely all on her own with no help from anyone she must be a stooge?

    If a 16 year old gets to Manchester United’s youth academy they’ll have had years of support from their parents and club bringing them to training camps and matches etc. All these petty personal attacks against her are transparently orchestrated by the climate change denial industry.

    I dont think thats what the poster was saying at all. Just that its not this organic "movement". Its like claiming to be a YouTube sensation but being signed to Sony for 10 years.

    I dont know how I feel about it, I dont feel comfortable with that much pressure being put on someone so young, but that is her/her parents decision to live with.

    I dont actually think it will make much of a difference, I would rather people made a change then went on a march - walk to school, dont get a new phone/console etc.


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    #43
    super_furry
    Registered Users Posts: 27,322 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Mad how all these old and middle-aged men are so obsessed with her. It's kind of creepy.


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    #44
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    sdanseo wrote: »
    I believe the climate is changing but I'll reserve judgement as to why for now. But take this thought away if nothing else.
    Boards weather forum has a consistent contributing expert for a decade or so now who is a research climatologist (so consistently that we have no reason to doubt him any more than any other conspiracy theory), and he isn't convinced that climate change is not just natural cycle.
    (This post and the one after it: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105813383&postcount=48)

    That is pretty much my own thoughts on the matter (I dont have a clue :)), very interesting post!


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    #45
    Tacitus Kilgore
    Registered Users Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭Tacitus Kilgore


    super_furry wrote: »
    Mad how all these old and middle-aged men are so obsessed with her. It's kind of creepy.

    It's disturbing how angry some people are with her, just read a whole load of very strange tweets about her.

    Most from middle aged men like you say, fucking weirdos


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    #46
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,789 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    beejee wrote: »
    I can discern bullshyt very quickly. I also haven't done very much reading on the subject, but I have come across some very interesting things.

    For example, that there was a PR company involved with the girl before anything of note happened. The same PR company that were involved with her mothers book launch. The first picture of her sitting all lonesome at the side of a building wasn't a random picture someone took, it was orchestrated by the PR company, and was picked up by a suspiciously large number of news agencies in the country. If true, and I'll determine that as I go along, then it reeks of manipulation for profit.

    The other interesting thing is the new financial tech company that started at the same time, who had the girl on board as a "special contact" or some such, and that this financial tech company has the explicit aim to open up new areas of wealth creation through new "climate based" measures, one such targeted area being pensions, that they would be divested as a means to combat climate change. Sounds very suspicious.

    I have nothing against the girl or the overall message of looking after the environment, but theres some real stinkers attached to this story, and my worry/vexation is that its all a load of gobbledygook in order to make some people very wealthy...and that's all it will achieve.

    Hence the cynicism. But I'll read a bit more and draw my own conclusions.

    For someone supposedly cynical and who claims to want the to find the real truth


    You repeat an awful lot of right wing twitter talking points delivered to you kindly from the lobbying organisations of massive fossil fuel industries.



    Just kinda odd, don't you agree?


    Or are you really not as cynical as you claim.


    Just wondering like..


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    #47
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    splinter65 wrote: »
    She’s a teenager with special needs becoming increasingly despotic and stressed out with every public outing.

    That is no way to describe a child. Infraction given.


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    #48
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    There are too many posts on here to hand out individual warnings and infractions but questioning climate science is not allowed on this forum. Anyone who does so again will be given a short holiday and advised to read the latest IPCC reports.

    Read the forum before you post.


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    #49
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,354 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I have to admit when I heard her latest 'how DARE you' speech I found it hilarious. It was like something from a South Park sketch.

    She seems well meaning. But jayus she seems naive. Who do you think makes all the PC's, smartphones. ipad's that the teenage generation now cannot go without?
    Most of the parts are outsourced from the developing world. The precious metals are mined in places like Africa.
    Yet all of this seems to go way over her head.
    Also how has her childhood being taken away from her exactly?
    By the very nature of her condition she is not going to have a 'normal' childhood.
    It is the very nature of he own condition that has made her take this path, focusing on this one issue above all else.
    She admits herself she only sees things in black and white because of her condition.
    I think it is about time someone has a quiet word with her for her own good.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #50
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Okaaaay let me add to that, discussions about her aspergers. Wow, this thread is going downhill fast.


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    #51
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,354 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Macha wrote: »
    Okaaaay let me add to that, discussions about her aspergers. Wow, this thread is going downhill fast.
    I disagree completely mod it is integral to her approach to the topic. And she herself has spoken about it and how it has formed her approach on the issue.




    The girl herself does not hide from it - so why are you so afraid of mentioning it?
    It might make you uncomfortable but it has a lot to do with it.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #52
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Check the forum charter. No backseat modding. Take it up in a PM if you so wish.


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    #53
    Forty Seven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Forty Seven


    Can't question science. Check.
    Not allowed an opinion due to being a middle aged man. Check.
    Not allowed to question mental ability of spokesperson even though they are making it front and Venter. Check.

    This is what an echo chamber looks like.

    I'm out.


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    #54
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Congratulations. You've earned yourself a 3-day ban.

    I suggest you use that time to use the IPCC's 1.5C report: https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/ and educate yourself about mental health issues.


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    #55
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Forty Seven wrote: »
    Can't question science. Check.
    Not allowed an opinion due to being a middle aged man. Check.
    Not allowed to question mental ability of spokesperson even though they are making it front and Venter. Check.

    This is what an echo chamber looks like.

    I'm out.


    Bye.

    ****



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    #56
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,354 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Forty Seven wrote: »
    Can't question science. Check.
    Not allowed an opinion due to being a middle aged man. Check.
    Not allowed to question mental ability of spokesperson even though they are making it front and Venter. Check.

    This is what an echo chamber looks like.

    I'm out.

    Exactly it seems to be attitude of getting insulted on the girls behalf.
    When the reality is she has placed herself front and centre to be discussed.
    Yet the fact she is a child that is different to most is used as shield to prevent any true discussion on what is happening here - when it suits.

    But if the view conformed to a view a person in charge would agree with suddenly the child that is different is marvelous.

    It seems to only go one way this discussion - unfortunate because I thought it would be a good thread.
    But now I have just realised that this thread is in the Environmental issues section so I assume only one particular viewpoint is tolerated.
    I had not realised that I thought it was AH - makes sense....

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #57
    speckled_park
    Registered Users Posts: 124 ✭✭speckled_park


    Forty Seven wrote: »
    Can't question science. Check.
    Not allowed an opinion due to being a middle aged man. Check.
    Not allowed to question mental ability of spokesperson even though they are making it front and Venter. Check.

    This is what an echo chamber looks like.

    I'm out.

    Also get called a '****ing wierdo' without consequence. What if we called her such a thing here? It would be deemed an offensive thing to do. However i think the real offence is shoving an underage child into the limelight by sailing with millionaires and speaking at the UN . Childhood stolen? I say she has had a pretty decent childhood up to the this point. Maybe its now stolen as a result of this climate change saga.


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    #58
    Macha
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 6,376 Mod ✭✭✭✭Macha


    Congrats you've also earned yourself a ban for repeated ignoring mod instructions.

    Please get back on topic everyone. And that topic does not include questioning climate science or prentending to be concerned about someone because they have aspergers.


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    #59
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 33,178 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Tens of millions of kids still have a great childhood and no doubt have dreams for the years ahead.
    I think she's being a little melodramatic perhaps?


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    #60
    jum4
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭jum4


    Forty Seven wrote: »
    Can't question science. Check.
    Not allowed an opinion due to being a middle aged man. Check.
    Not allowed to question mental ability of spokesperson even though they are making it front and Venter. Check.

    This is what an echo chamber looks like.

    I'm out.

    my thoughts exactly!

    Macha, you need to sort yourself out here I'm afraid,

    laters.


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    #61
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    jum4 wrote: »
    my thoughts exactly!

    Macha, you need to sort yourself out here I'm afraid,

    laters.


    See you in another five years. :rolleyes:

    ****



This discussion has been closed.
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