Greta thunberg, climate hero or trojan horse?

beejee

Came across her latest speech and found it to be particularly cringe-inducing.

"you stole my childhood and dreams!" blah

Climate action and attention is a good thing, but there's something really questionable about her, hard to put your finger on it.

So I read a bit more about her. Some very cynical history there! It seems more and more likely that this is one gigantic marketing machine that purposefully created a brand to sell to younger people (naturally!). The mothers book launch, the big marketing firm, financial tech companies... All before anyone ever heard of her

Some interesting theories floating around about the re-organisation of capital markets to center on "green policies" in order to extract previously protected financial zones, with pensions in particular.

In other words, kiss pensions goodbye and say hello to a million new "charges" under the guise of climate action.

The kicker being, of course, that it will be the same people as now accumulating all the wealth, just more of it. This greta thunberg "phenomenon" is certainly a well-oiled machine. Suspiciously so.

Anyone else find it all a bit too good to be true? Am I and others just unreasonably cynical?

Happy4all

beejee wrote: »

Came across her latest speech and found it to be particularly cringe-inducing.

"you stole my childhood and dreams!" blah

Climate action and attention is a good thing, but there's something really questionable about her, hard to put your finger on it.

So I read a bit more about her. Some very cynical history there! It seems more and more likely that this is one gigantic marketing machine that purposefully created a brand to sell to younger people (naturally!). The mothers book launch, the big marketing firm, financial tech companies... All before anyone ever heard of her

Some interesting theories floating around about the re-organisation of capital markets to center on "green policies" in order to extract previously protected financial zones, with pensions in particular.

In other words, kiss pensions goodbye and say hello to a million new "charges" under the guise of climate action.

The kicker being, of course, that it will be the same people as now accumulating all the wealth, just more of it. This greta thunberg "phenomenon" is certainly a well-oiled machine. Suspiciously so.

Anyone else find it all a bit too good to be true? Am I and others just unreasonably cynical?

Saw the headline online and read no further

Thelonious Monk

Yeah because we haven't been discussing this on boards for months now

Quantum Erasure

well Ted, I'm very cynical, as you know...

beejee

Happy4all wrote: »

Saw the headline online and read no further

Same here, saw the latest "news" but it did get me into a bit of reading. Some funny stuff! And not all "ha ha" funny

GetWithIt

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter

beejee

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah because we haven't been discussing this on boards for months now

Sorry, I didn't get the memo from headquarters

beejee

GetWithIt wrote: »

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter

Well let me tell you about my stolen childhood, and then you can forward money to me. No limits!

The_Kew_Tour

She a Young Lady trying make a difference.

Better luck to her.

kneemos

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

She a Young Lady trying make a difference.

Better luck to her.

Too much weight on the shoulders of a sixteen year old imo.

JohnnyFlash

She seems to make a lot of angry men even angrier. Strange.

Padre_Pio

kneemos wrote: »

Too much weight on the shoulders of a sixteen year old imo.

No one else is willing to shoulder the burden.

I firmly believe in the saying, Only when the Last Tree Is Cut Down, the Last Fish Eaten, and the Last Stream Poisoned, You Will Realize That You Cannot Eat Money.

All this climate change talk from politicians is populist nonsense. Everyone knows what we need to do to combat climate change, but no one is willing to sacrifice their comforts. Any politician who tries to change the status quo will find themselves unemployed.

lola85

She lost me after reading her speech that was prepared by someone else on PAPER!!

Yes paper from trees cut down.

Pfff amateur.

freshpopcorn

Mod NoteMoved from After Hours to Environmental and sustainability please follow local guidelines!

1o059k7ewrqj3n

Yeah I dunno. Maybe the kid has honest intentions but it's other people around her or in the media who may be using her, because there will always be someone or some group with an agenda - seeking to ride on coattails or use some crisis to the best of their advantage.

Nevertheless, I say we eat the ****in planet.

Harry Palmr

She is a teenager who is in the eye of the storm and who probably feels like she has the weight of the world on her shoulders. It's not remotely good for her but it'll take her to realise that, at some point soon hopefully.

Akrasia

All this ‘further reading’ you’ve been doing...

Where have you been getting this reading from?

Do you think those sources are reliable and do not have a pre existing agenda to discredit anyone who speaks in favor of action on climate change?

splinter65

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

She a Young Lady trying make a difference.

Better luck to her.

She’s a teenager with special needs becoming increasingly despotic and stressed out with every public outing.

elperello

Stressed she may be but not despotic.

Akrasia

She’s despotic now?

splinter65

splinter65 wrote: »

She’s a teenager with special needs becoming increasingly despotic and stressed out with every public outing.

She needs to go home and be a kid.

And not a puppet of her parents or whoever is pulling her strings

JohnnyFlash

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

She seems to make a lot of angry men even angrier. Strange.

Understandably so, in fairness.


I've no real interest in climate change, I just know I'll get taxed more for it, and see little to no benefit (and in 20 years we'll be told it's actually a natural phenom... and now we're gonna have to spend even more money somehow or another :rolleyes:).


The reason people (and it's not just men, I'm sure some women have critical thinking skills, too) are annoyed, is because not only are the circus wheeling out a child, but a 'special needs' one at that. So anytime anyone points out anything negative, "omg how cud u say dat she's only a child!!".




The minute I heard it was an autistic teenager, and not a world renowned scientist with 40 years of history, knowledge and experience, that was gonna be talking to the politicians, I knew something was up.




Also, there was a snippet on the radio today of her rabbling on, and saying that politicians are using 'not enough money' to do things as an excuse.. Handy for the multi millionaire to be saying that! I'm sure she won't be crippled by the financial burden.


Also, what solutions has she? So far all I'm seeing is finger pointing and complaining?

Padre_Pio

Deleted User wrote: »

Understandably so, in fairness.


I've no real interest in climate change, I just know I'll get taxed more for it, and see little to no benefit (and in 20 years we'll be told it's actually a natural phenom... and now we're gonna have to spend even more money somehow or another :rolleyes:).

Just so we're clear, have you any accredited evidence for this?
Because the consensus is massively against you

beejee

Akrasia wrote: »

All this ‘further reading’ you’ve been doing...

Where have you been getting this reading from?

Do you think those sources are reliable and do not have a pre existing agenda to discredit anyone who speaks in favor of action on climate change?

I can discern bullshyt very quickly. I also haven't done very much reading on the subject, but I have come across some very interesting things.

For example, that there was a PR company involved with the girl before anything of note happened. The same PR company that were involved with her mothers book launch. The first picture of her sitting all lonesome at the side of a building wasn't a random picture someone took, it was orchestrated by the PR company, and was picked up by a suspiciously large number of news agencies in the country. If true, and I'll determine that as I go along, then it reeks of manipulation for profit.

The other interesting thing is the new financial tech company that started at the same time, who had the girl on board as a "special contact" or some such, and that this financial tech company has the explicit aim to open up new areas of wealth creation through new "climate based" measures, one such targeted area being pensions, that they would be divested as a means to combat climate change. Sounds very suspicious.

I have nothing against the girl or the overall message of looking after the environment, but theres some real stinkers attached to this story, and my worry/vexation is that its all a load of gobbledygook in order to make some people very wealthy...and that's all it will achieve.

Hence the cynicism. But I'll read a bit more and draw my own conclusions.

keane2097

Yeah what if it's all a big hoax and she gets millions of people interested in protecting the environment for nothing?

beejee

keane2097 wrote: »

Yeah what if it's all a big hoax and she gets millions of people interested in protecting the environment for nothing?

What if its a means of manipulating people into voting for very damaging policies that achieves nothing other than making a few people extremely wealthy, at the expense of everyone else, that ends up doing nothing for the environment anyway?

keane2097

beejee wrote: »

What if its a means of manipulating people into voting for very damaging policies that achieves nothing other than making a few people extremely wealthy, at the expense of everyone else, that ends up doing nothing for the environment anyway?

I doubt it will be a net loss if a few people become extremely wealthy while millions become more exercised about protecting the environment.

_Brian

Aside from the whole climate thing.

I worry for her.
History has told us that so many child stars in the spotlight have had horrific troubles often being driven by terrible parents.
Children just don’t have the developed skills to deal with the spotlight, the desperate flip sides of those who adore them and those who despise them in equally extreme measures.

I really, really think she needs to be taken back from this spotlight and let back to her childhood.

I’ve two kids and I’d put their long term well being above any crusade on climate or anything.

beejee

keane2097 wrote: »

I doubt it will be a net loss if a few people become extremely wealthy while millions become more exercised about protecting the environment.

On the contrary, I believe a manipulation of such magnitude could be the worst thing to ever happen for environmental causes.

Imagine a young girl stirring up classrooms all over the world, preaching the message of a combined fight and "now or never" etc, and then it turns out that she and her associated group sails off into the sunset having achieved nothing but made many people much poorer in the process?

The potential damage of something like that would strip the morale of people worldwide like acid.

I'm sceptical, and rightly so, considering some of the links involved here.

Roadtoad

What if she's right?

elperello

Roadtoad wrote: »

What if she's right?

She doesn't claim any great wisdom.
She just says listen to the scientific evidence.

beejee

Roadtoad wrote: »

What if she's right?

Of course shes right. Just as I would be right to say that endangered species is a "bad thing"

Its not some earth-shattering question of right or wrong. Its the "why" behind it all, and as Ive already mentioned above, there is some very questionable stuff at the background of this.

sdanseo

It's taken Trump to start revealing holes in some liberal arguments. And I say that as a fairly centrist person.
Used to be the Democrats were good, the Republicans everyone to be allowed to shoot everyone else, and that was that.
But the extent to which traditionally liberal outlets are going to insult Trump are so cheap and childish, they're almost worse than Fox News ever was. And it's incessant. Overkill. An agenda, if you are that way inclined.
It's like they have just ALWAYS had the higher moral ground and now that he has stamped his feet and said no a few times, they just don't know what to do other than throw tantrums to get him out of office.

He is a spectacularly distasteful, odious human but the man didn't become a billionaire by being as stupid as people make him out to be.
I don't and won't support him or his ways and means but there has to be something more to it than simply "he's a buffoon and the American voters are all idiots".

I believe the climate is changing but I'll reserve judgement as to why for now. But take this thought away if nothing else.
Boards weather forum has a consistent contributing expert for a decade or so now who is a research climatologist (so consistently that we have no reason to doubt him any more than any other conspiracy theory), and he isn't convinced that climate change is not just natural cycle.
(This post and the one after it: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105813383&postcount=48)

Dravokivich

beejee wrote: »

What if its a means of manipulating people into voting for very damaging policies that achieves nothing other than making a few people extremely wealthy, at the expense of everyone else, that ends up doing nothing for the environment anyway?

I saw bits of that video she had recently about carbon eating machines. It's just spoonfed nonsense that doesn't inform people. Im at a loss now who her target audience is.

Forty Seven

I'm worried about the young generation. Talk about being told you have no future!

It's chicken little once again. I've seen many variants of it over my lifetime. I'm sure I'll see some more before my inevitable personal extinction.

I will carry on living as I do. I'm a bit too cynical to be listening to children. I used to be one.

Anyone here look back at the way you were at 16 and think you know less now? I sure as hell don't. Greta should be in school learning to question the status quo, not to just advocate it.

Forty Seven

Forty Seven wrote: »

I'm worried about the young generation. Talk about being told you have no future!

It's chicken little once again. I've seen many variants of it over my lifetime. I'm sure I'll see some more before my inevitable personal extinction.

I will carry on living as I do. I'm a bit too cynical to be listening to children. I used to be one.

Anyone here look back at the way you were at 16 and think you know less now? I sure as hell don't. Greta should be in school learning to question the status quo, not to just advocate it.

Is she not questioning the status quo here though?

MrMusician18

There is some amount of effort could into discrediting her.

Shouldn't that be the story?

Forty Seven

Ward J. Littell wrote: »

Forty Seven wrote: »

I'm worried about the young generation. Talk about being told you have no future!

It's chicken little once again. I've seen many variants of it over my lifetime. I'm sure I'll see some more before my inevitable personal extinction.

I will carry on living as I do. I'm a bit too cynical to be listening to children. I used to be one.

Anyone here look back at the way you were at 16 and think you know less now? I sure as hell don't. Greta should be in school learning to question the status quo, not to just advocate it.

Is she not questioning the status quo here though?

Clearly not. We've been heavily sold global warming for decades. She's just regurgitating the party line. I was reading what she's spouting before she was an itch in her dad's pants.

Selenophile

beejee wrote: »

I have nothing against the girl or the overall message of looking after the environment, but theres some real stinkers attached to this story, and my worry/vexation is that its all a load of gobbledygook in order to make some people very wealthy...and that's all it will achieve.

Hence the cynicism. But I'll read a bit more and draw my own conclusions.

Well, at the moment we are making some other people very wealthy, so a son of some Persian Gulf sheikh can spend a million dollars a day just to fight his own boredom; or some Texas redneck spending fortunes on prostitutes and in casinos in Las Vegas.
But on a more serious note, yes, some people will become rich. Those are the entrepreneurs that will come with products and solutions that will fit in or even combat climate emergency. Just like IT revolution brought huge change and made some individuals very rich, so it will be with this new revolution.

The part where you and me differ is that you think that the whole story about the climate change is made up so that some bad people become rich on expense of simple folks. My opinion is that such theories come from fossil fuels industry that is doomed if the World abandon their products.

sdanseo wrote: »

It's taken Trump to start revealing holes in some liberal arguments.

...
I believe the climate is changing but I'll reserve judgement as to why for now. But take this thought away if nothing else.
Boards weather forum has a consistent contributing expert for a decade or so now who is a research climatologist (so consistently that we have no reason to doubt him any more than any other conspiracy theory), and he isn't convinced that climate change is not just natural cycle.

Climate change and its causes are scientific facts. They are not dogmas of some religious system; they are not foundations or aims of some ideology. That means they have nothing to do with liberal or any other ideological arguments. It also means that Trump, nor any other person that is not climate scientist is not entitled to opinion. Just like I'm not entitled to have an opinion about what would be the best therapy for some sick person, because I'm not a doctor.


The whole idea that behind climate change emergency is some leftist agenda to tax people and redistribute wealth has one very specific flow: you can fight climate change applying any ideological view from extreme right to extreme left. As an example, you can tax the hell out of people driving diesel cars, or you can reduce taxes on electric cars, and give huge tax credits to electric car makers and dealers. You can ban private vehicles and force people to use public transport. Or you can nuke 90% of the mankind and allow the rest to do whatever they want because they are of more worthy then others. There are many solutions. Instead of trying to undermine the scientific consensus because we don't like the necessary changes, we should concentrate on finding best solutions to the problem in democratic way, before some maniac come with "The final solution", and usually such characters become important in times of great crisis.

sdanseo

Selenophile wrote: »

Well, at the moment we are making some other people very wealthy, so a son of some Persian Gulf sheikh can spend a million dollars a day just to fight his own boredom; or some Texas redneck spending fortunes on prostitutes and in casinos in Las Vegas.
But on a more serious note, yes, some people will become rich. Those are the entrepreneurs that will come with products and solutions that will fit in or even combat climate emergency. Just like IT revolution brought huge change and made some individuals very rich, so it will be with this new revolution.

The part where you and me differ is that you think that the whole story about the climate change is made up so that some bad people become rich on expense of simple folks. My opinion is that such theories come from fossil fuels industry that is doomed if the World abandon their products.



Climate change and its causes are scientific facts. They are not dogmas of some religious system; they are not foundations or aims of some ideology. That means they have nothing to do with liberal or any other ideological arguments. It also means that Trump, nor any other person that is not climate scientist is not entitled to opinion. Just like I'm not entitled to have an opinion about what would be the best therapy for some sick person, because I'm not a doctor.


The whole idea that behind climate change emergency is some leftist agenda to tax people and redistribute wealth has one very specific flow: you can fight climate change applying any ideological view from extreme right to extreme left. As an example, you can tax the hell out of people driving diesel cars, or you can reduce taxes on electric cars, and give huge tax credits to electric car makers and dealers. You can ban private vehicles and force people to use public transport. Or you can nuke 90% of the mankind and allow the rest to do whatever they want because they are of more worthy then others. There are many solutions. Instead of trying to undermine the scientific consensus because we don't like the necessary changes, we should concentrate on finding best solutions to the problem in democratic way, before some maniac come with "The final solution", and usually such characters become important in times of great crisis.

While I've been clear that personally I'm not convinced (in either direction) yet, what you've basically said there is that no one else is entitled to an opinion on the matter of climate change but that your opinion is it's a done deal.

If that isn't narcissistic I don't know what is. Weren't all those final solution nutjobs narcissists?

Akrasia

beejee wrote: »

Akrasia wrote: »

All this ‘further reading’ you’ve been doing...

Where have you been getting this reading from?

Do you think those sources are reliable and do not have a pre existing agenda to discredit anyone who speaks in favor of action on climate change?

I can discern bullshyt very quickly. I also haven't done very much reading on the subject, but I have come across some very interesting things.

For example, that there was a PR company involved with the girl before anything of note happened. The same PR company that were involved with her mothers book launch. The first picture of her sitting all lonesome at the side of a building wasn't a random picture someone took, it was orchestrated by the PR company, and was picked up by a suspiciously large number of news agencies in the country. If true, and I'll determine that as I go along, then it reeks of manipulation for profit.

The other interesting thing is the new financial tech company that started at the same time, who had the girl on board as a "special contact" or some such, and that this financial tech company has the explicit aim to open up new areas of wealth creation through new "climate based" measures, one such targeted area being pensions, that they would be divested as a means to combat climate change. Sounds very suspicious.

I have nothing against the girl or the overall message of looking after the environment, but theres some real stinkers attached to this story, and my worry/vexation is that its all a load of gobbledygook in order to make some people very wealthy...and that's all it will achieve.

Hence the cynicism. But I'll read a bit more and draw my own conclusions.

so because she didn’t do this entirely all on her own with no help from anyone she must be a stooge?

If a 16 year old gets to Manchester United’s youth academy they’ll have had years of support from their parents and club bringing them to training camps and matches etc. All these petty personal attacks against her are transparently orchestrated by the climate change denial industry.

ThunbergsAreGo

Akrasia wrote: »

so because she didn’t do this entirely all on her own with no help from anyone she must be a stooge?

If a 16 year old gets to Manchester United’s youth academy they’ll have had years of support from their parents and club bringing them to training camps and matches etc. All these petty personal attacks against her are transparently orchestrated by the climate change denial industry.

I dont think thats what the poster was saying at all. Just that its not this organic "movement". Its like claiming to be a YouTube sensation but being signed to Sony for 10 years.

I dont know how I feel about it, I dont feel comfortable with that much pressure being put on someone so young, but that is her/her parents decision to live with.

I dont actually think it will make much of a difference, I would rather people made a change then went on a march - walk to school, dont get a new phone/console etc.

super_furry

Mad how all these old and middle-aged men are so obsessed with her. It's kind of creepy.

ThunbergsAreGo

sdanseo wrote: »

I believe the climate is changing but I'll reserve judgement as to why for now. But take this thought away if nothing else.
Boards weather forum has a consistent contributing expert for a decade or so now who is a research climatologist (so consistently that we have no reason to doubt him any more than any other conspiracy theory), and he isn't convinced that climate change is not just natural cycle.
(This post and the one after it: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105813383&postcount=48)

That is pretty much my own thoughts on the matter (I dont have a clue ), very interesting post!

Tacitus Kilgore

super_furry wrote: »

Mad how all these old and middle-aged men are so obsessed with her. It's kind of creepy.

It's disturbing how angry some people are with her, just read a whole load of very strange tweets about her.

Most from middle aged men like you say, fucking weirdos

listermint

beejee wrote: »

I can discern bullshyt very quickly. I also haven't done very much reading on the subject, but I have come across some very interesting things.

For example, that there was a PR company involved with the girl before anything of note happened. The same PR company that were involved with her mothers book launch. The first picture of her sitting all lonesome at the side of a building wasn't a random picture someone took, it was orchestrated by the PR company, and was picked up by a suspiciously large number of news agencies in the country. If true, and I'll determine that as I go along, then it reeks of manipulation for profit.

The other interesting thing is the new financial tech company that started at the same time, who had the girl on board as a "special contact" or some such, and that this financial tech company has the explicit aim to open up new areas of wealth creation through new "climate based" measures, one such targeted area being pensions, that they would be divested as a means to combat climate change. Sounds very suspicious.

I have nothing against the girl or the overall message of looking after the environment, but theres some real stinkers attached to this story, and my worry/vexation is that its all a load of gobbledygook in order to make some people very wealthy...and that's all it will achieve.

Hence the cynicism. But I'll read a bit more and draw my own conclusions.

For someone supposedly cynical and who claims to want the to find the real truth


You repeat an awful lot of right wing twitter talking points delivered to you kindly from the lobbying organisations of massive fossil fuel industries.



Just kinda odd, don't you agree?


Or are you really not as cynical as you claim.


Just wondering like..

Macha

splinter65 wrote: »

She’s a teenager with special needs becoming increasingly despotic and stressed out with every public outing.

That is no way to describe a child. Infraction given.

Macha

There are too many posts on here to hand out individual warnings and infractions but questioning climate science is not allowed on this forum. Anyone who does so again will be given a short holiday and advised to read the latest IPCC reports.

Read the forum before you post.

gormdubhgorm

I have to admit when I heard her latest 'how DARE you' speech I found it hilarious. It was like something from a South Park sketch.

She seems well meaning. But jayus she seems naive. Who do you think makes all the PC's, smartphones. ipad's that the teenage generation now cannot go without?
Most of the parts are outsourced from the developing world. The precious metals are mined in places like Africa.
Yet all of this seems to go way over her head.
Also how has her childhood being taken away from her exactly?
By the very nature of her condition she is not going to have a 'normal' childhood.
It is the very nature of he own condition that has made her take this path, focusing on this one issue above all else.
She admits herself she only sees things in black and white because of her condition.
I think it is about time someone has a quiet word with her for her own good.

Macha

Okaaaay let me add to that, discussions about her aspergers. Wow, this thread is going downhill fast.

gormdubhgorm

Macha wrote: »

Okaaaay let me add to that, discussions about her aspergers. Wow, this thread is going downhill fast.

I disagree completely mod it is integral to her approach to the topic. And she herself has spoken about it and how it has formed her approach on the issue.

The girl herself does not hide from it - so why are you so afraid of mentioning it?
It might make you uncomfortable but it has a lot to do with it.