Ireland v Scotland Match Thread

Squidgy Black · 22-09-2019 4:57pm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Probably because the training is a lot of work for someone who doesn't expect to use it regularly.

Not saying he is lazy or doesn't want to work hard but the life of a professional rugby player is already a hard one but to volunteer for extra training when they don't see that they will get to use it regularly might be a hard sell.

Very much this, Ferg McFadden spoke about it a while ago in an interview and said people don't realise the amount of extra time it takes for a non-halfback to practice kicking on top of their regular training schedule, and it can often cause clashes with different sessions etc. To be seen as a viable option at the top level you need to be training consistently as well, it's not just the odd kick or two at the end of a session.

AbusesToilets · 22-09-2019 5:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

He gelled the defensive line well but Stockdale was excellent in defence and Larmour was starting to resemble BOD at moments there.

Most of the collisions between the two sets of backs were on our terms, we completely had their number and read their game. Incredibly well prepared team.

Still think that maul try was special. Really showcased our rugby IQ to bait their maul defence like that and then change up our shape to take advantage when inside the 5m.

Really heartening to see, given the seeming difficulties we've had this past season mauling.

Clegg · 22-09-2019 8:46pm

I've just finished listening to Off The Balls analysis of the game. They highlighted how well our centres defended early on. Ringrose shut down Hogg's outside breaking threat and Aki didn't allow Russell the time or space to execute his kicking and passing game.

In separate interviews RoG, James Downey and Keith Wood all said that once you shut down Hogg and Russell, you shut down Scotland's entire attack as they haven't the players elsewhere with that spark.

So that leads to the question; why did Townsend leave Huw Jones and Rory Hutchinson at home and leave Darcy Graham on the bench? These three have the spark to create something out of nothing, but two weren't even selected to travel. Jones wasn't in great form, but when everyone knows you have a weakish pack and two main threats in the backline, they're going to go hell for leather to shut them down. Townsend has made a massive error in selection.

22-09-2019 9:53pm

19.25 Scottish scrum - Bundee takes his harassment of Russell up a notch. He gave him no space while on the pitch, Russell looked shook at full time from the sheer volume of attention he got.

Jump_In_Jack · 22-09-2019 10:07pm

55E39D84-AEF8-4095-8394-D56C182D3808.jpeg

He absolutely should have sent that to Stockdale with urgency before contact.
Stockdale would have had to wait to receive before he could move forward, but that extra second it took to take contact and offload what was a bad pass due to the contact killed the chance.

Not wishing to criticise McGrath unduly, but the top players will make this situation into a try, e.g someone of the class of Beauden Barrett would have passed that before contact.
That’s the level Ireland must get to in order to beat the best teams.

PhlegmyMoses · 22-09-2019 10:10pm

Clegg wrote: »

I've just finished listening to Off The Balls analysis of the game. They highlighted how well our centres defended early on. Ringrose shut down Hogg's outside breaking threat and Aki didn't allow Russell the time or space to execute his kicking and passing game.

In separate interviews RoG, James Downey and Keith Wood all said that once you shut down Hogg and Russell, you shut down Scotland's entire attack as they haven't the players elsewhere with that spark.

So that leads to the question; why did Townsend leave Huw Jones and Rory Hutchinson at home and leave Darcy Graham on the bench? These three have the spark to create something out of nothing, but two weren't even selected to travel. Jones wasn't in great form, but when everyone knows you have a weakish pack and two main threats in the backline, they're going to go hell for leather to shut them down. Townsend has made a massive error in selection.

Aki was incredible first 20 mins. Seemed to be coming up with big play after big play in defence and when carrying

prawnsambo · 22-09-2019 10:10pm

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

He absolutely should have sent that to Stockdale with urgency before contact.
Stockdale would have had to wait to receive before he could move forward, but that extra second it took to take contact and offload what was a bad pass due to the contact killed the chance.

Not wishing to criticise McGrath unduly, but the top players will make this situation into a try, e.g someone of the class of Beauden Barrett would have passed that before contact.
That’s the level Ireland must get to in order to beat the best teams.

Yeah. Pity we don't have a rewind button for individual players. We could get them into the positions to make the plays that we want them to make without changing anybody else's.

PhlegmyMoses · 22-09-2019 10:12pm

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

55E39D84-AEF8-4095-8394-D56C182D3808.jpeg

He absolutely should have sent that to Stockdale with urgency before contact.
Stockdale would have had to wait to receive before he could move forward, but that extra second it took to take contact and offload what was a bad pass due to the contact killed the chance.

Not wishing to criticise McGrath unduly, but the top players will make this situation into a try, e.g someone of the class of Beauden Barrett would have passed that before contact.
That’s the level Ireland must get to in order to beat the best teams.

I personally thought that Stockdale was as much to blame for butchering that. Got too excited in support and was too far forward. Needed to give McGrath a better option

22-09-2019 10:14pm

Back three were very good today. Lots of work at the breakdown, good reads in defence and consistent support work off the ball.

The two times they got some width on us we had them closed down before play hit our 22.

Scotland at 20 minutes got their first and only points. At half time they were still working their socks off and yet the game was over at 55.

Water John · 22-09-2019 10:14pm

Yes a bit cheesed at the constant analysis of one move.
McGrath kept running laterally and would have been expected to straighten the line, take his tackler's inside line and offload, before or after contact.
That's what Stockdale expected, that line gaining McGrath a step.

Birdie Num Num · 22-09-2019 10:27pm

Confused by Sexton’s contribution today without being critical. ...How bad an injury is it? Is it the same recent injury? Why did he back away from the goal kicks? - Because he didn’t think he’d make them or he’d aggravate the injury?
He stayed on long after any initial treatment or suggestion of discomfort. Still kicked plenty out of hand while on the pitch. Looked very content and comfortable while sitting on the bench afterwards. Was it just a red herring or has there been some clarity from the camp since?

Uriel. · 22-09-2019 10:31pm

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

Confused by Sexton’s contribution today without being critical. ...How bad an injury is it? Is it the same recent injury? Why did he back away from the goal kicks? - Because he didn’t think he’d make them or he’d aggravate the injury?
He stayed on long after any initial treatment or suggestion of discomfort. Still kicked plenty out of hand while on the pitch. Looked very content and comfortable while sitting on the bench afterwards. Was it just a red herring or has there been some clarity from the camp since?

Lots of questions. No one here will know. I suppose we'll get some form of an update from camp tomorrow. I can't see it be a red herring, wouldnt see the point in such an approach and it's not really Schmidt's or Ireland's style. I would speculate that it was middling niggle. Not enough to take him off straight away but enough to take precautions. Then there's the Johnny factor, its not easy to get him off the pitch.

prawnsambo · 22-09-2019 10:33pm

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

Confused by Sexton’s contribution today without being critical. ...How bad an injury is it? Is it the same recent injury? Why did he back away from the goal kicks? - Because he didn’t think he’d make them or he’d aggravate the injury?
He stayed on long after any initial treatment or suggestion of discomfort. Still kicked plenty out of hand while on the pitch. Looked very content and comfortable while sitting on the bench afterwards. Was it just a red herring or has there been some clarity from the camp since?

He's had a groin strain. I'd say just managing it.

Water John · 22-09-2019 10:35pm

Donnacha O'Callaghan pointed out that Ireland had a lot of soft tissue injuries and might need to tweak training. That might be an answer.

Birdie Num Num · 22-09-2019 10:49pm

Uriel. wrote: »

Lots of questions. No one here will know. I suppose we'll get some form of an update from camp tomorrow. I can't see it be a red herring, wouldnt see the point in such an approach and it's not really Schmidt's or Ireland's style. I would speculate that it was middling niggle. Not enough to take him off straight away but enough to take precautions. Then there's the Johnny factor, its not easy to get him off the pitch.

Yes, can’t really see the point of a red herring. Although I’d say we are being a bit extra tricksy in preparation for the tournament. ...obviously he contributes a lot more than just kicking but was surprised he stayed on as long as he did. Bit of a worry. Don’t remember any issues in the last Wales game.

Joma4good · 22-09-2019 10:55pm

Anyone else think the second try was POM’s hand getting the downward pressure to touch it down? not taking anything away from Best who done amazingly well to keep hold of the ball whilst rolling/being rolled, over the top of a Scots defender. Rory landed on the top of his head, twisted to get downward momentum on the ball and in the second angle on the slo mo it looked to me that POM who was latched as support got his hand through the tangle to ground it.
I was really impressed with Larmour today, seems to be growing into the fullback role quite nicely, also surprisingly strong in contact. Great performance from the whole team and look’s like a good squad atmosphere, very nice to see the celebration of Conways try with Sexton and Murray.

22-09-2019 11:01pm

Birdie Num Num wrote: »

Confused by Sexton’s contribution today without being critical. ...How bad an injury is it? Is it the same recent injury? Why did he back away from the goal kicks? - Because he didn’t think he’d make them or he’d aggravate the injury?
He stayed on long after any initial treatment or suggestion of discomfort. Still kicked plenty out of hand while on the pitch. Looked very content and comfortable while sitting on the bench afterwards. Was it just a red herring or has there been some clarity from the camp since?

I'd say he felt a twinge but nothing significant. If the game was in the balance he'd probably have kept kicking. If it was more than a twinge he'd have gone off earlier. He kicked a garryowen after he stopped place kicking and didn't seem affected by it.

I thought he was excellent, played with a huge amount of urgency and pace. Added a good bit of physicality in defence and largely made good decisions. We had Scotland completely figured out and central to that was Sexton's organisation of the team. Top drawer performance from both halves and both replacements.

I still maintain what I've said previously about McGrath's physicality - wonder if he won any converts today.

prawnsambo · 22-09-2019 11:02pm

Joma4good wrote: »

Anyone else think the second try was POM’s hand getting the downward pressure to touch it down? not taking anything away from Best who done amazingly well to keep hold of the ball whilst rolling/being rolled, over the top of a Scots defender. Rory landed on the top of his head, twisted to get downward momentum on the ball and in the second angle on the slo mo it looked to me that POM who was latched as support got his hand through the tangle to ground it.
I was really impressed with Larmour today, seems to be growing into the fullback role quite nicely, also surprisingly strong in contact. Great performance from the whole team and look’s like a good squad atmosphere, very nice to see the celebration of Conways try with Sexton and Murray.

Downward pressure isn't needed for a try unless it's on a loose ball in the in-goal.

Weepsie · 22-09-2019 11:02pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Very much this, Ferg McFadden spoke about it a while ago in an interview and said people don't realise the amount of extra time it takes for a non-halfback to practice kicking on top of their regular training schedule, and it can often cause clashes with different sessions etc. To be seen as a viable option at the top level you need to be training consistently as well, it's not just the odd kick or two at the end of a session.

When I was in UCD you'd have seen Sexton and I'm presuming Madigan out on the pitch for an ages with coaches and no other players around or else up doing other sessions

The Lost Sheep · 22-09-2019 11:03pm

Joma4good wrote: »

Anyone else think the second try was POM’s hand getting the downward pressure to touch it down? not taking anything away from Best who done amazingly well to keep hold of the ball whilst rolling/being rolled, over the top of a Scots defender. Rory landed on the top of his head, twisted to get downward momentum on the ball and in the second angle on the slo mo it looked to me that POM who was latched as support got his hand through the tangle to ground it.
I was really impressed with Larmour today, seems to be growing into the fullback role quite nicely, also surprisingly strong in contact. Great performance from the whole team and look’s like a good squad atmosphere, very nice to see the celebration of Conways try with Sexton and Murray.

It wasnt. Best had downward pressure on the ball, was in contact with the ball over the tryline.

Diabhal Beag · 22-09-2019 11:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I still maintain what I've said previously about McGrath's physicality - wonder if he won any converts today.

I still think Marmion is better overall and was disappointed he was cut but felt McGrath's selection was vindicated by his cameo today. He shoots up and despite his size is extremely effective in stopping attacks. I was really impressed. Wouldn't blame him too much for the pass to Stockdale because Carty's kick was absolutely disgustingly ridiculous and only Farrell was on the same wavelength.

realhorrorshow · 23-09-2019 4:21am

Haven’t seen the game yet so I’m not sure what ye are specifically referring to but Luke McGrath is imo the second best scrum half in the world defensively and also the best p4p tackler I have ever seen.

Interested Observer · 23-09-2019 4:23am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

55E39D84-AEF8-4095-8394-D56C182D3808.jpeg

He absolutely should have sent that to Stockdale with urgency before contact.
Stockdale would have had to wait to receive before he could move forward, but that extra second it took to take contact and offload what was a bad pass due to the contact killed the chance.

Not wishing to criticise McGrath unduly, but the top players will make this situation into a try, e.g someone of the class of Beauden Barrett would have passed that before contact.
That’s the level Ireland must get to in order to beat the best teams.

Yes he should have passed it straight to Stockdale's arse.

Dave_The_Sheep · 23-09-2019 4:32am

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

55E39D84-AEF8-4095-8394-D56C182D3808.jpeg

He absolutely should have sent that to Stockdale with urgency before contact.
Stockdale would have had to wait to receive before he could move forward, but that extra second it took to take contact and offload what was a bad pass due to the contact killed the chance.

That would be a forward pass, by your own image. Stockdale assumed a pass from the original player, but he was covered, McGrath ended up with the ball, Stockdale was a foot or two ahead, so the pass was not on at all. McGrath couldn't do a thing to get him the ball at that point.

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

Not wishing to criticise McGrath unduly,

Yeah, I don't buy that. That's precisely what you want to do.

Rigor Mortis · 23-09-2019 7:18am

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Even Barrett has to obey the forward pass law....

Yes, but only one Barrett per match.

pc7 · 23-09-2019 7:35am

Water John wrote: »

Donnacha O'Callaghan pointed out that Ireland had a lot of soft tissue injuries and might need to tweak training. That might be an answer.

Anyone with physio knowledge explain a bit about these?

23-09-2019 7:57am

Everyone of these was still out at half passed the eleven:

Shefwedfan · 23-09-2019 8:24am

pc7 wrote: »

Anyone with physio knowledge explain a bit about these?

No knowledge of physio but that’s hardly a requirement on boards

In other words he is saying don’t flog the s**t out of them....technical term

aloooof · 23-09-2019 10:33am

I watched the match with an excitable 4-year old next to me so I'm sure I missed a lot but some of my thoughts:

1. Best performance of the year by a distance, at a perfect time. Yes "it's only Scotland" but that's a far cry from what we were hearing before the game. But it gives me further confidence that this team get it right when they target a game. Which they'll have been doing with the QF as well.

2. Murray and Sexton close to their best. A welcome (and necessary) return to form.

3. I'd add POM to that list for his short stint too. Two line out takes, contested one of theirs and important work for both Best's and Furlong's tries. Hopefully himself and Bundee can pass the HIA's.

4. Sexton’s non-kicking got a couple of mentions, but I’m not too concerned. I think Nacewa occasionally filled in on kicking duties for Leinster if Sexton was feeling a hamstring twinge. Fully expecting him back on kicking duties next week.

5. Thought CJ, Henderson and Ryan were all immense. Put in a serious shift and for me CJ was deserved MOTM.

6. The scrum went exceptionally well too. All credit to the front row there.

7. Conan was very solid too, but I think he gave away 2 penalties? Does any one know what the penalty count was? Seemed to be extremely disciplined. Thought Beirne was unlucky for his yellow.

8. Some handling errors under the high ball (can recall Murray dropping 2 and Conway one) but that seemed to be par for the course in the conditions. A word for Larmour who played exceptionally well. Stockdale too, especially for that defensive read, especially after getting so much flak for poor reads in the England warm-up.

9. Injuries. We seem to have an awful lot of niggles at the moment. The likes of Earls, Henshaw and Carbery really need to get some game time over the next few weeks now.

10. The box-kick, which seemed to be abandoned during the warm-ups, was very much back. (Likely explains Luke McGrath's selection over Marmion).

It's something I fully expect to see in the QF, but am hoping the grubbers we saw in the warm-ups will feature too to turn SA's blitz defence, which was phenomenal against NZ in the opening 20 minutes. It's the type of defence Irish teams have struggled against in the recent past; thinking England, and Leinster and Munster vs Saracens.

11. All in all tho, hard not to be extremely pleased with that performance. The hype is gonna be huge come the QF. In Joe we Trust!

irelandrover · 23-09-2019 10:38am

aloooof wrote: »

10. The box-kick, which seemed to be abandoned during the warm-ups, was very much back. (Likely explains Luke McGrath's selection over Marmion).

It's something I fully expect to see in the QF, but am hoping the grubbers we saw in the warm-ups will feature too to turn SA's blitz defence, which was phenomenal against NZ in the opening 20 minutes. It's the type of defence Irish teams have struggled against in the recent past; thinking England, and Leinster and Munster vs Saracens.

I think this depends on the conditions. There was a lot of handling errors due to the weather conditions. In those conditions the box kick becomes a viable tactic. If the weather was better I'm not sure we'd see as many kicks.

Ireland v Scotland Match Thread

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