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Sex for Rent - Raised in the Dail as issue of major concern

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    #122
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,553 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    stimpson wrote: »
    The ticks are they to show you when the other person has read the text. The “victim” here is the other person.


    The ticks should be in the speech bubble of the person who owns the phone, which in this case would (should) be the tenant.


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    #123
    stimpson
    Registered Users Posts: 7,815 ✭✭✭stimpson


    osarusan wrote: »
    The ticks should be in the speech bubble of the person who owns the phone, which in this case would (should) be the tenant.

    Ok. It’s seems i may need some sleep.


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    #124
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,069 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    biko wrote: »
    Don't reverse the roles.
    You are both men.
    Would you still go ahead?
    If no, why not?

    Or make the landlady 85 years old.
    Would you still go ahead?
    If no, why not?




    Yer wan moany-hole Coppinger posted the texts. It seemed the tenant initiated that she would leave the landlords flat and was about to confirm it.
    Landlord "cheekily" offered for her to come to live with him. She rejected the "offer" and that was apparently that.

    Not exactly #metoo


    Next time I'm out and a young lady mentions to me that she has a long commute home - I'll make a cheeky comment that she's welcome to come back and crash at mine wink-wink nudge-nudge, and I'll look forward to it being brought up in the Dail


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    #125
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users Posts: 17,417 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    Those LL messages clearly aren't from an Irish person anyway.


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    #126
    lola85
    Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭lola85


    This whole story by a known **** stirrer who illegally occupies houses is very convenient.


    Not buying it one bit.

    But that’s the world we live in.

    Few what’s app messages on a screen without any credible evidence and the government are now responsible for prostitution.

    Actually makes you despair at what this country is coming too.

    Trial by social media and Ruth Coppinger.

    I bet this feminist was waiting all summer and using it to put out this well constructed absolutel horse **** of a story.

    Men are **** and the government.


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    #127
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Should their own messages not have blue ticks to show they're read by the LL?


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    #128
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,703 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Hunky Monster wrote: »
    Those LL messages clearly aren't from an Irish person anyway.

    Coppinger won't be long winding her neck in if it's a Muslim or an African.


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    #129
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Coppinger won't be long winding her neck in if it's a Muslim or an African.

    the entire tone will change to 'racist woman smears harmless immigrant just trying to integrate'


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    #130
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Scoundrel wrote: »
    Typical of the entitled scum who would become a landlord


    That is funny in all fairness.


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    #131
    dublinman1990
    Registered Users Posts: 8,302 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    If a landlord was proposing to have sex with a tenant for rent; it is grossly irresponsible behaviour on the part of the landlord. There is a possibility here that any landlord taking part in this disgusting activity, to further out their sexual prowess, could have had carried out sexual acts to other multiple partners before having sex with the tenant. This could land both of them of having a STI or HIV infection after they would have had sex with each other.

    What could you do in a scenario like this one if you were the tenant?


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    #132
    lola85
    Closed Accounts Posts: 667 ✭✭✭lola85


    dublinman1990 wrote: »
    If a landlord was proposing to have sex with a tenant for rent; it is grossly irresponsible behaviour on the part of the landlord. There is a possibility here that any landlord taking part in this disgusting activity, to further out their sexual prowess, could have had carried out sexual acts to other multiple partners before having sex with the tenant. This could land both of them of having a STI or HIV infection after they would have had sex with each other.

    What could you do in a scenario like this one if you were the tenant?

    Don’t be worrying.

    It didn’t actually happen.


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    #133
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,967 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    lola85 wrote: »
    Don’t be worrying.

    It didn’t actually happen.

    It does actually happen (no idea if this particular instance happened or not apart from the text messages). Lord god. Ignorance is bad enough but wilful ignorance is the actually very sad.

    I get that some posters have an unthinking reaction against anything they perceive as feminist. But this isn't some trivial issue and it's not just a woman's issue. There are young men who dace homelessness if they don't sell sex to their landlord. It's sexual exploitation for something as basic as rent. That's genuinely a sign of something very wrong at both governmental and societal level.

    I'm genuinely surprised that the "there's no problem with this, survival sex is grand" posters, and the "what's the world coming to?" posters, aren't disagreeing with each other.


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    #134
    Melanchthon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Melanchthon


    lola85 wrote: »
    dublinman1990 wrote: »
    If a landlord was proposing to have sex with a tenant for rent; it is grossly irresponsible behaviour on the part of the landlord. There is a possibility here that any landlord taking part in this disgusting activity, to further out their sexual prowess, could have had carried out sexual acts to other multiple partners before having sex with the tenant. This could land both of them of having a STI or HIV infection after they would have had sex with each other.

    What could you do in a scenario like this one if you were the tenant?

    Don’t be worrying.

    It didn’t actually happen.

    I am not PC and dont like Ruth C.
    But I can well believe this happened what else does an advert with suspiciously low rent that goes something like this.

    Wanted-female tenants
    Owner occupied
    1 current occupant male
    Bedrooms-1 double bed.


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    #135
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    dublinman1990 wrote:
    What could you do in a scenario like this one if you were the tenant?

    I'd refuse. I might actually take him up on the offer if I found him attractive.

    I know. The horror!


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    #136
    Melanchthon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Melanchthon


    lola85 wrote: »
    dublinman1990 wrote: »
    If a landlord was proposing to have sex with a tenant for rent; it is grossly irresponsible behaviour on the part of the landlord. There is a possibility here that any landlord taking part in this disgusting activity, to further out their sexual prowess, could have had carried out sexual acts to other multiple partners before having sex with the tenant. This could land both of them of having a STI or HIV infection after they would have had sex with each other.

    What could you do in a scenario like this one if you were the tenant?

    Don’t be worrying.

    It didn’t actually happen.

    I am not PC and dont like Ruth C.
    But I can well believe this happened what else does an advert with suspiciously low rent that goes something like this.

    Wanted-female tenants
    Owner occupied
    1 current occupant male
    Bedrooms-1 double bed


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    #137
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stallingrad wrote: »
    To all the men who think this is an ok transaction, would you feel the same way if it was your daughter ****ing the landlord to keep a roof over her head?

    Thought not, at best it is grotesquely unprofessional, at worse manipulative and abusive.

    Maybe if you are asking a question of people - let them answer it themselves?

    Assuming consent and making choices of their own volition I would have nothing against my children engaging in sex work or bartering sex.

    It is the coercion and exploitation that would be a concern - but the concept of someone choosing to pay for rent wit sex in and of itself is not one I have anything against.

    But you can say the same about anything - why do we only get antsy when sex is involved? I would want my children to choose any career at all of their own volition. If they are coerced or pushed against their will into it then I do not care if it is sex work - or a high paid job as a surgeon. I would still be unhappy for them.


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    #138
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,967 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Maybe if you are asking a question of people - let them answer it themselves?

    Assuming consent and making choices of their own volition I would have nothing against my children engaging in sex work or bartering sex.

    It is the coercion and exploitation that would be a concern - but the concept of someone choosing to pay for rent wit sex in and of itself is not one I have anything against.

    But you can say the same about anything - why do we only get antsy when sex is involved? I would want my children to choose any career at all of their own volition. If they are coerced or pushed against their will into it then I do not care if it is sex work - or a high paid job as a surgeon. I would still be unhappy for them.

    We get angsty about things involving sex for the same reason that sexual exploitation, assault and rape are considered amongst the worst types of crime. Ive no problem with sex work as log as it's well regulated and voluntary.

    If someone does sex work because they want to buy a luxury item, then that's probably completely voluntary and grand. But someone doing survival sex work for basic essentials of life like accommodation is not the same. Likewise sex for drugs because they're ripe tor exploitation by predators.

    There's what make it a government issue. What I'd like to see is a parliamentary committee hearing. Speak to the people involved in both sides of the sex for accommodation deals. Speak to stakeholders like charities, academics who've studied the area, the minister fir housing etc. Get it out in the open.


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    #139
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Feisar wrote: »
    And they sex worker, what do they use their earnings on? Accommodation, food and drugs. Just because it's not the punter that provides the accommodation directly it's basically the same.

    They should have freedom of choice who to sell their services to- management reserve the right to refuse admission and all that. Just because this woman was in a position to refuse doesn't mean the next will be.


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    #140
    Ironicname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭Ironicname


    Lillyfae wrote:
    They should have freedom of choice who to sell their services to- management reserve the right to refuse admission and all that. Just because this woman was in a position to refuse doesn't mean the next will be.

    A woman has the right to weigh up whether or not having sex with someone is worth a discounted rent.


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    #141
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    We get angsty about things involving sex for the same reason that sexual exploitation, assault and rape are considered amongst the worst types of crime.

    Sex is not a crime - the others are. If something involves sexual exploitation sexual assault and rape then by all means get angsty about it. I would too.

    But that is not what I asked - now is it? I asked specifically why we get angsty _just_ because it involves sex at all. If people are coerced or forced into _any_ career I see that an issue. Not just specifically sexual careers. I see no reason to single sex out here. Never have.
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Ive no problem with sex work as log as it's well regulated and voluntary.

    Agreed. I have long on this forum talked about my pro-legal pro-regulated sex industry stance. But this here -
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    If someone does sex work because they want to buy a luxury item, then that's probably completely voluntary and grand. But someone doing survival sex work for basic essentials of life like accommodation is not the same.

    - is again singling out sex in a way I do not. We all mostly work in our chosen careers - and some unchosen careers - to pay for the basic essentials of life like accommodation. We pretty much all do that. So why single out sex? My concern is for people who are doing _any_ job they do not want to be doing - to realise those essentials.

    What the job is they are doing is not at all relevant. Relevant for me is people doing jobs they do not want to be - any jobs - and how best we as a society can give them opportunities to get out of that job. Which is why I always liked - for example - the "mature student" benefits that let people return to college later in life for free.

    I had absolutely no less concern for example for the people who were trafficked against their will to work in nail bars than I do for the people trafficked against their will to do sex work. The work is not relevant. The trafficked against their will part is.


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    #142
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,967 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Sex is not a crime - the others are. If something involves sexual exploitation sexual assault and rape then by all means get angsty about it. I would too.

    But that is not what I asked - now is it? I asked specifically why we get angsty _just_ because it involves sex at all. If people are coerced or forced into _any_ career I see that an issue. Not just specifically sexual careers. I see no reason to single sex out here. Never have.



    Agreed. I have long on this forum talked about my pro-legal pro-regulated sex industry stance. But this here -



    - is again singling out sex in a way I do not. We all mostly work in our chosen careers - and some unchosen careers - to pay for the basic essentials of life like accommodation. We pretty much all do that. So why single out sex? My concern is for people who are doing _any_ job they do not want to be doing - to realise those essentials.

    What the job is they are doing is not at all relevant. Relevant for me is people doing jobs they do not want to be - any jobs - and how best we as a society can give them opportunities to get out of that job. Which is why I always liked - for example - the "mature student" benefits that let people return to college later in life for free.

    I had absolutely no less concern for example for the people who were trafficked against their will to work in nail bars than I do for the people trafficked against their will to do sex work. The work is not relevant. The trafficked against their will part is.

    Yeah but you ignore the cultural phenomenon where sexual assault, rape and sexual exploitation, are considered amongst the very worst crimes. I don't set the social norms.

    This is an example of sexual exploitation (sex for accommodation) Soooo, it's pretty clear why people angst about this particular issue.

    Your original question was why people only get angst about sex and I don't agree with that statement because people get angsty about other things too.


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    #143
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Arguing that sex work is like any other work and if have to sell your labour to pay the rent, whats the difference if that labour involves selling intimate access to your body, ignores the reality that most people are not comfortable at all with selling intimate access to their bodies.

    If it really is all the same to you, would you give your bank manager a weekly blowjob if it meant getting 10% off your mortgage payments?
    Would you let him screw you for 20% off?
    Doesn't matter if you're a guy and you're not attracted to men, doesn't matter if you find him physically repellent and you know he's mostly getting off on the idea that he's humiliating you - this is not about your sexual preferences, it's just a job, just a simple financial transaction.

    Maybe some people can compartmentalize their experiences well enough that they can do something like this without it impacting on their personal lives, most people cannot.


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    #144
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users Posts: 7,540 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    Don’t see the problem . 2 grown adults doing what they want .


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    #145
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Yeah but you ignore the cultural phenomenon where sexual assault, rape and sexual exploitation, are considered amongst the very worst crimes.

    How did I ignore it when I specifically referred to both it _and_ the distinctions I make between it and other things. Let me repeat myself:

    "Sex is not a crime - the others are. If something involves sexual exploitation sexual assault and rape then by all means get angsty about it. I would too.

    But that is not what I asked - now is it?"
    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    This is an example of sexual exploitation (sex for accommodation) Soooo, it's pretty clear why people angst about this particular issue.

    No sex for accommodation is not sexual exploitation any more than sex for money is. If we over use words like exploitation they become meaningless and useless in the face of _actual_ exploitation.

    Sex for accommodation is a deal. A deal which anyone in my opinion should be free to offer and anyone in my opinion should be free to accept or reject.

    Where the word "exploitation" comes into it is if coercion is involved. Or the ability of the person receiving the offer to reject it is compromised. But again that has nothing to do with sex. I would say the _exact_ same thing if the offer being made was "You can stay in my house for free but you have to do all the cooking cleaning and housework". I say the same thing with the recent stories of children being bribed to go to religious services by being offered passes from doing homework.

    But for some reason when it is sex - we get news stories about it. I can not remember the last headline I read about a woman or man being propositioned with free rent for being a cleaner.
    B0jangles wrote: »
    Arguing that sex work is like any other work and if have to sell your labour to pay the rent, whats the difference if that labour involves selling intimate access to your body, ignores the reality that most people are not comfortable at all with selling intimate access to their bodies.

    Then they shouldn't do it or be made to do it. But that says nothing about a) the people making the offer or b) the people choosing to accept it.

    I get that some people do not want to sell themselves in that way. And I am all for that. But I fear there is a spill over where the people who would not want to do it - would prefer no one else does either. And that is a line in the sand I like to stand at and point at in quite a lot of areas - lest anyone miss it.


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    #146
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 19,967 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    How did I ignore it when I specifically referred to both it _and_ the distinctions I make between it and other things. Let me repeat myself:

    "Sex is not a crime - the others are. If something involves sexual exploitation sexual assault and rape then by all means get angsty about it. I would too.

    But that is not what I asked - now is it?"



    No sex for accommodation is not sexual exploitation any more than sex for money is. If we over use words like exploitation they become meaningless and useless in the face of _actual_ exploitation.

    Sex for accommodation is a deal. A deal which anyone in my opinion should be free to offer and anyone in my opinion should be free to accept or reject.

    Where the word "exploitation" comes into it is if coercion is involved. Or the ability of the person receiving the offer to reject it is compromised. But again that has nothing to do with sex. I would say the _exact_ same thing if the offer being made was "You can stay in my house for free but you have to do all the cooking cleaning and housework". I say the same thing with the recent stories of children being bribed to go to religious services by being offered passes from doing homework.

    But for some reason when it is sex - we get news stories about it. I can not remember the last headline I read about a woman or man being propositioned with free rent for being a cleaner.



    Then they shouldn't do it or be made to do it. But that says nothing about a) the people making the offer or b) the people choosing to accept it.

    I get that some people do not want to sell themselves in that way. And I am all for that. But I fear there is a spill over where the people who would not want to do it - would prefer no one else does either. And that is a line in the sand I like to stand at and point at in quite a lot of areas - lest anyone miss it.

    Yeah. I see it as sexual exploitation. Sex for accommodation is grand if the person has options. If they font it's sex or homelessness abs that's sexual exploitation.

    Is there such thing as accommodation for cleaning? I wouldn't have thought cleaning has the market value of sex. I'd imagine that's why you don't have many accommodation for cleaning, arrangements.

    I'm any case, I'm not calling for government to ban it. I'm calling for government to address the causal factors which I see as housing shortage and the distorted market, and the fact that wages have remained stagnant for decades


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    #147
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,380 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Ironicname wrote: »
    A woman has the right to weigh up whether or not having sex with someone is worth a discounted rent.
    See, the lefty liberals will tell you that a woman has the right to choose what to do with her body when it involves a fetus but not when it's her own choice about her own body - eg sex work


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    #148
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

    Is there such thing as accommodation for cleaning? I wouldn't have thought cleaning has the market value of sex. I'd imagine that's why you don't have many accommodation for cleaning, arrangements.

    Au pairs usually get heavily discounted rent/free rent for cleaning and/or looking after children.


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    #149
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    They should have freedom of choice who to sell their services to- management reserve the right to refuse admission and all that. Just because this woman was in a position to refuse doesn't mean the next will be.
    Youve elevated a guy making an offer to a full blown rapist, lazy and wrong


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    #150
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,599 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Been listening to only bits of this

    Are there not more serious issues to be dealing with, than some flirty texts between private people..well, one being flirty, and the other not reciprocating......two adults here...

    Why are we always trying to "fix" everything? And is this particular text exchange something that needs fixing?


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    #151
    Purgative
    Registered Users Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭Purgative


    walshb wrote: »
    Been listening to only bits of this

    Are there not more serious issues to be dealing with, than some flirty texts between private people..well, one being flirty, and the other not reciprocating......two adults here...

    Why are we always trying to "fix" everything? And is this particular text exchange something that needs fixing?


    I'm just wondering should I get into the rental market?


    Been a long cold winter.


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