Irish Beef vs Mercosor Beef

endainoz · 17-09-2019 11:17pm

onetimecypher wrote:

We are told to avoid Thai chicken/Brazilian beef etc

onetimecypher wrote:

WHY?

It's pretty well explained a couple of posts up of you'd bother to look.

Danzy · 17-09-2019 11:20pm

Using growth hormones is worth about 150 Euro a carcase in reduced time to kill alone, add in no regulation of medicine, antibiotics, no withdrawal periods, no environmental concerns or requirements, next to no Labour law enforcement etc

onetimecypher · 17-09-2019 11:23pm

BEEF FARMERS IN HEADLINES.

Forget hospital beds, social welfare, upcoming budget etc

EUROPEAN COURT RULES AGAINST IRELAND IN "aughinish alumina" AFTER 12 YEAR CASE

IRELAND MUST PAY COSTS

Today APPLE case came to hearing (same story as above).

VERDICT not expected for 12 years

Danzy · 17-09-2019 11:23pm

Car99 wrote: »

And what happened to ireland/Europe's forests ? Cut down for agriculture, progress. Yes that was along time ago but we shouldn't preach to Brazil about something we've already done . Should we pay them to let their in forests in place to compensate for our emissions , probably.

They actually just a green light from Brussels this year to drive on with burning the forest.

Apart from a few outraged comments on tv, they 'll continue to be encouraged in that.

onetimecypher · 17-09-2019 11:40pm

Mercosur deal was just a deal to sell more Mercedes cars in South America.

Was worth alot more money to Germany to sell out the european farmers than to deal with them, HENCE this row.

Is there anyone here who can, taste wise, tell a difference, or is it just "I WAS TOLD TO SAY THIS" nazism

gozunda · 17-09-2019 11:47pm

realitykeeper wrote: »

Quorn meat substitute is quite good and it is nice knowing no animal was harmed in making it. I think Irish farmers should grow fruit and veg. Ideally farmers should be young and not in their eighties so incentives are needed so that farms get passed on to the young. Retirement homes may want the farms as collateral for caring for old farmers but to me that is like saying we should all just lie down and die. So, I say give young farmers the land and encourage agricultural education and entrepreneurship.

Quorn is highly proceesed ****e which smells like tinned dogfood.

If you 'think' farmers here should grow just fruit and veg - then I'd suggest you give it a go on a commercial scale and report back to us in a couple of years and tell us how you are getting on.

The fact is that commercial horticultural production here is severly limited by our climate, topography and soil type.

And dont try the one that Holland manages it. Horticultural produce there is largely managed through the use of glass/ plastic covered growing units with huge inputs of water, artificial fertilisers and vast amounts of energy.

I would sincerely love for all the radical plant food advocates out there to be given a shovel and told to start digging. I'd be willing to place a bet on the outcome ...

Donald Trump · 17-09-2019 11:57pm

onetimecypher wrote: »

Can someone explain why Irish farmers are so afraid of beef imported from South America?

IS IT BECAUSE,

They keep mentioning CHEAP BEEF IMPORTS, but how can beef from South America (with travel included) be cheaper in Ireland than in Brazil.

Have we been strung along ?

Why do we have to pay a minimum wage of a tenner an hour in Ireland when I can pay minimum wage of 200 Euro a week to a worker in Peru...oh sorry, did I say per week...I meant per month!
Have we been strung along?

You might have seen something in the news about a place called Brazil. Now in this place, some naughty people were burning down trees. Because that is all they need to do down there to increase production - set fire to a few hundred acres of forest and voila - free land. Graze it and abuse it and destroy it and then move on and repeat. Very little financial cost to the producer in that system. Big environmental cost though

onetimecypher wrote: »

Beef farmers only earn €10000 per year(ha ha ha) but get hundred of thousands extra from EU to not farm (set-aside is the one I know by name), in order to keep the sale price high.

Well you don't know much then. Because there hasn't been set-aside for a decade. The CAP database is online and searchable. There are not farmers getting "hundreds of thousands extra to not farm". That's waffle. There might be a few very large beneficiaries, but these tend to be the likes of Larry Goodman and similar industrial beef processors. Go and have a look and tell us how many you can find over 100k for "not farming". The odd larger one (say over 20k) will be because that farmer maybe drew down on a capital improvements grants scheme that year. The database will tell you what each payment was for. Most might be 2-4k. And don't forget that there will be plenty getting 0...only the ones who get anything are on the database.

Subsidies were not for the benefit of farmers. They were for the benefit of the consumer. They were brought in for food security and to bump up production in order to keep prices lower for end consumers. Did you know that a farmer received more for a litre of milk in 1980 than he does today? Besides everything else, do you think that the consumer was paying the same for a litre of milk in the shop today that they were in 1980. They are in their holes. Now imagine that the raw material input costs had increased with inflation? What would you be paying now? The efficiencies which were gained from technology, and increasing scale, in the meantime actually should cut the middle-man costs. So the farmer is getting the same in absolute terms, the middlemen costs should have come down, but you are paying much more for your litre. And you are moaning about the farmers?

onetimecypher wrote: »

As well as EU benefits, irish farmers are treated really well on tax, inheritance, education grants, .....basically all taxes on ordinary people.

No. You need some information dude rather than ill informed soundbytes. (maybe you missed out due to not applying for an education grant) While you might be referring to agricultural relief for inheritance purposes, you obviously don't know that there is a corresponding business relief for people passing on businesses and related property. However, in the case of agricultural reliefs, there are additional conditions which must be fulfilled which are not required for business relief.

onetimecypher wrote: »

I buy bulk beef products, irish reared, but slaughtered in UK, for ONE THIRD OF THE PRICE, charged by irish butchers

EXPLAIN

Maybe the Irish butchers think you're a bit simple and see you coming and overcharge you? Or maybe the bulk "beef" you are buying is of the tesco "shergar" variety? Who knows. You haven't given us too much to go on.

stimpson · 18-09-2019 12:05am

onetimecypher wrote: »

https://www.branaganmeats.com/

Very local

In Ballycoolin?

I used to shop in there regularly. I was passing last month so dropped in. No Irish reared beef. All UK reared and slaughtered. Prices on a par with Aldi.

I used to be able to get a whole Irish striploin for half the price/kg of Aldi. Not any more.

Danzy · 18-09-2019 12:12am

stimpson wrote: »

In Ballycoolin?

I used to shop in there regularly. I was passing last month so dropped in. No Irish reared beef. All UK reared and slaughtered. Prices on a par with Aldi.

I used to be able to get a whole Irish striploin for half the price/kg of Aldi. Not any more.

UK beef prices are nearly always about 20%+ higher than here.

realitykeeper · 18-09-2019 12:13am

eeeee wrote: »

LOL.

There's an awful, awful lot of land that can't grow fruit and veg in anywhere near a sustainable way,

Yes but most of that land would be fine for forestry which is another area Irish farming needs to expand into. You may not realize it but Mercosor is not the biggest threat to beef farming. Artificial meat is becoming a reality and in the near future it will be cheaper and safer than meat from animals. Time for Irish agriculture to move on.

realitykeeper · 18-09-2019 12:21am

eeeee wrote: »

There aren't queue's of young farmers chomping at the bit to take over the family farm - quite the opposite. Fcuk all farming families can carry it on, including my own. Once my father goes the land will be set, most probably to the only young farmer in our area. The majority of farms in my area where the farmer has retired or died have gone into a monocultural foreign species forestry. Ours is one of the few left in our end of the area.
Most of the children of farmers where I'm from did what I did and left, or got a job at something else.

Our farm at home is incredibly rich environmentally, the father never pulled down hedges for subsidies and headage in the 80's and 90's, but it has barely broken even for the last 35 years.
No one's lining up to take on marginal land. It's all disappearing to non-native monocultural forestry.
There's an awful lot of history, biodiversity and beauty lost to planting. Our farm won't be planted in my lifetime, but who knows after that? ALl teh famine houses, fairy forts, full fiachra's, the stream, the 20 acres of unfarmable wilderness we call the mountain - all pulled up for forestry.
The generations of lives that made that land, the stories, the history, the social history of it.
Gone.
Small beef operations keep that land and it's attendant biodiversity going, and those at it are dying off, and with them all of the above.
That's the reality.

Fantasies about people living in idealised small holdings in remote areas, neglected for decades, without any opportunities for employment, services, broadband, public transport or further education are just that, fantasies.
Rural Ireland is dying in vast swathes of the country, and the beef crisis is part of it.

That is one way of looking at it. I prefer the Dutch idea of using the land. Ireland is an embarrassment quite frankly, we have so much land which is not used or even properly designated.

realitykeeper · 18-09-2019 12:30am

endainoz wrote: »

Oh man I really didn't want to reply to this thread, it's just not that simple to say: oh they should all grow fruit and veg. Not all land is suitable for that type of enterprise. Some do of course, and the majority of it is seen as too expensive to the consumer because its a realistic price but supermarkets buying fruit and veg from the continent in bulk can sell it for half nothing. Farmers markets do exist, sure but it's not affordable for everyone. Low income families still need affordable food. I'm not even going to entertain the idea of essentially giving farms away to a retirement home so they can plant it with Sitka spruce. Moronic idea.

This is the issue with people that don't know enough about the industry but still feel the need to give an uneducated opinion. There are courses run by Teagasc to do just that. Young farmers are encouraged to do a 'green cert' which is a level 5 and 6 course that can be done part-time or full-time. The literal idea is to have more young people involved in the industry to use more ideas and to diversify on some way. There are also inheritance plans that can be put in place if a father wants to retire in say 5 years and to pass the farm onto one of their children.

I have done the green cert and I still have to work a job elsewhere. All my friends involved in farming also need a job as there is not enough money just to farm. My father raised a family with four kids on the same farm I work on now.

It simply isn't sustainable anymore and you have to love it which I do. For what it's worth, I do support the beef protests but I'm not too confident about them getting what they want.

It won't make me give it up though that's for sure, and I can't stand hearing this sh1te from lads saying: oh if it's not worth it you should give it up and oh they're always whinging looking for more handouts etc. etc. To those people I say mind your own business. You literally have no idea of the work that we do, and it's a shame the general public opinion for farmers and farming in general is so poor. Farming for me is pretty high in the way of job satisfaction, it's just a pity we don't get next of near what were worth.

You are not a good listener. I did not suggest you give up farming. I suggested you take it seriously.

realitykeeper · 18-09-2019 12:38am

gozunda wrote: »

Quorn is highly proceesed ****e which smells like tinned dogfood.

If you 'think' farmers here should grow just fruit and veg - then I'd suggest you give it a go on a commercial scale and report back to us in a couple of years and tell us how you are getting on.

The fact is that commercial horticultural production here is severly limited by our climate, topography and soil type.

And dont try the one that Holland manages it. Horticultural produce there is largely managed through the use of glass/ plastic covered growing units with huge inputs of water, artificial fertilisers and vast amounts of energy.

Yes, they take what they do seriously. I think Irish farmers should get serious too.

gozunda wrote: »

I would sincerely love for all the radical plant food advocates out there to be given a shovel and told to start digging. I'd be willing to place a bet on the outcome ...

Hard work really isn`t so terrible, you should give it a try. I`d bet you`d surprise yourself.

Danzy · 18-09-2019 12:40am

realitykeeper wrote: »

That is one way of looking at it. I prefer the Dutch idea of using the land. Ireland is an embarrassment quite frankly, we have so much land which is not used or even properly designated.

Your the fellow who has this bizarre ideas about Dutch farming being transferred here but who had no idea about Dutch farming or here for that matter I knew I recalled your name.

Carry on.

endainoz · 18-09-2019 12:41am

Danzy wrote:

Your the fellow who has this bizarre ideas about Dutch farming being transferred here buy who had no idea about a Dutch farming or here for that matter I knew I recalled your name.

No idea about farming full stop. Apparently we aren't serious enough.

endainoz · 18-09-2019 12:44am

realitykeeper wrote:

You are not a good listener. I did not suggest you give up farming. I suggested you take it seriously.

I take it very seriously, so do all the people protesting. I do more for the environment than most and definitely more than someone who doesn't farm, try not to choke on your avacado toast.

onetimecypher · 18-09-2019 12:53am

endainoz wrote: »

I take it very seriously, so do all the people protesting. I do more for the environment than most and definitely more than someone who doesn't farm, try not to choke on your avacado toast.

so does ewes

Outlaw Pete · 18-09-2019 1:22am

I remember a few years ago I was trying to source the best beef I could given all I was allowed eat for a time was rare beef and green juices (don't ask

) and came across the following thread on Boards where some farmers were going out of the way to produce a premium product so they could make more by marketing it as such....

Justjens wrote: »

Finish 90% of mine off grass May to Dec, as weanlings they get a handfull of meal each for Jan and Feb (approx 500kg), then nothing but grass and (hopefully) well wilted silage. Finish a few out of the shed every year Jan/Feb to keep the factory happy.

Probably don't get the weights of conventional farmers but the price premium more than makes up for it, aim is to finish from 26 to 30 months, mostly fat grade 3 and 4, the odd 5 if I've had to hang on to them. Killed a few 2 yo autumn born (Sept) last back end (Nov Dec) HE out of LMx cows, averaged 375kg DW. They spend first winter, 3 months (autumn calvers housed 28th Dec this year) with creep gate to paddock and the best of them never see meal.

Is that still as relevant three years on? As I seem to recall farmers were trying to get grading on beef so they could distinguish themselves from poorer product, which undoubtedly there is some of out there.

I know such grading is not as lucrative as maybe it is in the UK, where grass fed beef is very distinguishable from lesser product given they use more grain in general. Country Practice had a show on it recently actually where they interviewed one farmer on how hard it was for him, and costly, to produce 100% grass fed beef. I think he had a restaurant attached to the farm also. It was the same episode BBC got in trouble for as they had only spoken to farmers who had said Brexit was a bad thing for them and as they are supposed to have balance on all things political, they had their knuckles wrapped over it.

rocksolidfat · 18-09-2019 1:42am

onetimecypher wrote: »

Can someone explain why Irish farmers are so afraid of beef imported from South America?

IS IT BECAUSE,

They keep mentioning CHEAP BEEF IMPORTS, but how can beef from South America (with travel included) be cheaper in Ireland than in Brazil.

I can't speak on the specifics of this case, but you would be surprised how these things can work. Liberte Yoghurt for example is made in Montreal, Canada yet costs more than double in Canada ($7, or €4.45) than it does in a Tesco in Ireland (€2).

That never ceases to amaze me, but there you go!

Eric Cartman · 18-09-2019 1:52am

I see lots of people raving about argentinian beef as if allowing full on south american imports will all be high quality and not just 5% high end and the rest is slop fed on slop pumped with hormones and packed into ready leal burgers.

More of the large producers and packers objecting as itll gut their non butcher / high end catering business. Obviously a big concern.

I think especially in a time where the environment and ‘food miles’ are a big deal, preserving our industry is paramount

realitykeeper · 18-09-2019 5:51am

Danzy wrote: »

Your the fellow who has this bizarre ideas about Dutch farming being transferred here but who had no idea about Dutch farming or here for that matter I knew I recalled your name.

Carry on.

It is more to do with attitude to be honest. Somehow I doubt half of Ireland would covered in weeds and depending on handouts if it was occupied by the Dutch instead of the Irish. Even this biodiversity spiel seems rather thin when it comes from Irish farmers because they seem to think biodiversity is about taken handouts and doing nothing. I rarely see any effort to re establish a native deciduous forest or re establish wetlands. Instead I see endless fields of weeds.

realitykeeper · 18-09-2019 5:58am

endainoz wrote: »

I take it very seriously, so do all the people protesting. I do more for the environment than most and definitely more than someone who doesn't farm, try not to choke on your avacado toast.

If you are protesting beef prices, why not demand lower prices so that the Brazilians would find beef farming less lucrative. Demanding higher prices will mean the Brazilians can up their prices too and what better motive to destroy another million acres of rain forest. If you really care for the environment and you are wedded to beef (cause it is easy and requires no effort) you should demand the processing plants pay you less.

Donald Trump · 18-09-2019 9:02am

realitykeeper wrote: »

If you are protesting beef prices, why not demand lower prices so that the Brazilians would find beef farming less lucrative. Demanding higher prices will mean the Brazilians can up their prices too and what better motive to destroy another million acres of rain forest. If you really care for the environment and you are wedded to beef (cause it is easy and requires no effort) you should demand the processing plants pay you less.

Username doesn't check out

18-09-2019 9:38am

This is what the Brazilian meat companies were doing just 2 years ago

Have you heard about the shocking rotten meat scandal that’s shaking the Brazilian society and economy this week? Over the weekend, Brazilian police unveiled an investigation exposing systemic bribing of Brazilian meat inspectors by major meat-packing companies (some of them top global companies) to conceal dirty meat by paying them to issue false “fit-to-eat” certifications.

Details emerging from the investigation include practices such as adding chemicals to meat to conceal rotting odor, adding pigs’ heads to sausages and adding cardboard to processed poultry as filler. Some families are afraid to eat the meat in their freezers. Local press is also reporting that Brazil’s former agriculture minister admitted to caving into political pressure to appoint a livestock superintendent who would support the rotten meat cover-up scheme.

No thanks.

onetimecypher · 18-09-2019 10:10am

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

This is what the Brazilian meat companies were doing just 2 years ago

No thanks.

Eat irish horses instead

endainoz · 18-09-2019 10:40am

Boards is unfortunately full of nut job trolls, time to unfollow. I suggest ye do the same lads.

Outlaw Pete · 18-09-2019 11:01am

onetimecypher wrote: »

Eat irish horses instead

There's a guy in the Temple Bar market most Saturdays that sells Horse meat Burgers, could never bring myself to eat the stuff.

I think karma would see that I never picked a winner again.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/horse-going-down-well-in-dublin-city-centre-1.1314471

gozunda · 18-09-2019 11:05am

realitykeeper wrote: »

Yes but most of that land would be fine for forestry which is another area Irish farming needs to expand into. You may not realize it but Mercosor is not the biggest threat to beef farming. Artificial meat is becoming a reality and in the near future it will be cheaper and safer than meat from animals. Time for Irish agriculture to move on.

realitykeeper wrote: »

That is one way of looking at it. I prefer the Dutch idea of using the land. Ireland is an embarrassment quite frankly, we have so much land which is not used or even properly designated.

realitykeeper wrote: »

You are not a good listener I did not suggest you give up farming. I suggested you take it seriously.

realitykeeper wrote: »

Yes, they take what they do seriously. I think Irish farmers should get serious too. Hard work really isn`t so terrible, you should give it a try. I`d bet you`d surprise yourself.

realitykeeper wrote: »

It is more to do with attitude to be honest. Somehow I doubt half of Ireland would covered in weeds and depending on handouts if it was occupied by the Dutch instead of the Irish. Even this biodiversity spiel seems rather thin when it comes from Irish farmers because they seem to think biodiversity is about taken handouts and doing nothing. I rarely see any effort to re establish a native deciduous forest or re establish wetlands. Instead I see endless fields of weeds.

Hold up lads. Realitykeeper (sic) is obviously the boards resident agricultural expert. Not only does he know more than all the kids in the department of agriculture and Teagasc with regards to production and farming - he knows more than any other farmer in the country as well!

So the future is:

* High input hot house horticultural production involving huge amounts of energy, artificial fertilisers and pesticides

*Forestry wherever there isnt intensive covered production.

* Cheap and nasty higly procesed fake 'meat'

Yup sounds just the kind of thing we need for sure ...

:cool:

jam_mac_jam · 18-09-2019 11:09am

I would prefer Irish beef to ****ty beef full of hormones from third world countries when I live up the road from some of the best beef in the world. I would gladly pay for the better quality. You can keep your crappy thai chicken as well.

Eric Cartman · 18-09-2019 1:08pm

gozunda wrote: »

Hold up lads. Realitykeeper (sic) is obviously the boards resident agricultural expert. Not only does he know more than all the kids in the department of agriculture and Teagasc with regards to production and farming - he knows more than any other farmer in the country as well!

So the future is:

* High input hot house horticultural production involving huge amounts of energy, artificial fertilisers and pesticides

*Forestry wherever there isnt intensive covered production.

* Cheap and nasty higly procesed fake 'meat'

Yup sounds just the kind of thing we need for sure ...

:cool:

Sounds like dystopian hell

Irish Beef vs Mercosor Beef

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