Grass fed beef

sthilmick · 02-03-2016 07:44PM #1

Hi there anyone know of anyone producing totally grass fed beef in Ireland? I know that the organic producers are using organic concentrates to finish their cattle
But I was wondering if anyone is finishing cattle completely on grass either conventionally or organically

coolshannagh28 · 02-03-2016 08:14PM

Have a Dexter heifer that was outwintered never seem meal or silage is mud fat for the factory next week ,she is the exception but would have a few like that

sthilmick · 02-03-2016 08:26PM

I mean in a commercial way. It's becoming a big thing. I know that it's very big in the US I recon it'll become big stuff here in the next few years too

barnaman · 02-03-2016 08:39PM

Depends how you define grass fed if as in US its all year at grass just grazing grass (which is possible in US) then its must be 0 in Ireland.

sthilmick · 02-03-2016 08:48PM

Well I'd define it as grass 100% that means hay haylage and silage are ok no meal consintrates or beet no straw either that's the definition of it

amacca · 02-03-2016 09:16PM

I do close to 100% grass but I have to keep them for a bit longer than others so they come into weight.....with the exception of milk replacer, nuts and ration for the first 8-12 weeks they are with me as calves.

all my own silage/hay/haylage over the winter and then compensatory growth during 1 and 1/2 or 2 full grazing seasons

I could try and do one wintering, carry higher numbers and finish earlier with feed/concentrates etc but I reckon (taking extra costs/expenditure into account) there wouldn't be a hell of a lot extra in it for me for a whole hell of a lot of extra work and pressure on the ground I have....fairly self sufficient with most things except baling and wapping which I can't really justify the expense of as I have a decent contractor.

The majority of them are smashing looking animals when its time to sell. Noticeably healthier than what they are competing against imo - but it takes them a long time catch up after milk replacer which although you can get terrible quality stuff even the decent stuff is really only survival rations compared to cows milk........its all swings and roundabouts I think.

sthilmick · 02-03-2016 09:19PM

Your buying in calves then are you

amacca · 02-03-2016 09:29PM

yup - so they become 100% grass fed after about the age of 12/14 weeks, some earlier.

Justjens · 02-03-2016 10:39PM

Finish 90% of mine off grass May to Dec, as weanlings they get a handfull of meal each for Jan and Feb (approx 500kg), then nothing but grass and (hopefully) well wilted silage. Finish a few out of the shed every year Jan/Feb to keep the factory happy.

Probably don't get the weights of conventional farmers but the price premium more than makes up for it, aim is to finish from 26 to 30 months, mostly fat grade 3 and 4, the odd 5 if I've had to hang on to them. Killed a few 2 yo autumn born (Sept) last back end (Nov Dec) HE out of LMx cows, averaged 375kg DW. They spend first winter, 3 months (autumn calvers housed 28th Dec this year) with creep gate to paddock and the best of them never see meal.

Base price · 03-03-2016 01:58AM

Great thread sthilmick.
As we become less intensive it is something that I would be interested in.

Toplink · 03-03-2016 03:04PM

I brought this topic up here in 2013 after a trip to the states where I was paying a premium for grass fed steak in restaurants over there.

On the nutritional, taste and allergy side of things there is alot of science behind the benefits of grass fed beef over conventional beef.

Like everything though, its how you tell the story and it almost needs a brand and a lobby to drive it forward as a feasible business model on Irish farms. It would also need to be somehow audited like the organic scheme.

weatherbyfoxer · 03-03-2016 04:45PM

Its very do able with good grassland management and hi dmd silage..friesan bullocks are ideal

ford2600 · 03-03-2016 04:59PM

The idea is a disservice to our very good quality beef, which is primarily grass fed anyway.

The phrase comes from the USA because it is so different to their lot fed muck. The nutritional analysis I've seen of traditional fed beef against lot feed usually shows a variance in ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 fats and a slight increase in trans fats.

I'd be highly surprised if there was an difference in beef quality if the only difference in two cattle was one was getting 10% of his calories from concentrate.

Our biggest selling point is our cattle are outside foraging in their natural environment most of the time.

Grass fed in an Irish context is majoring in the minors.

Every so often there is some lad on nutrition forum looking for grass fed butter ☺ take your pick buddy...

tanko · 03-03-2016 05:05PM

ford2600 wrote: »

The idea is a disservice to our very good quality beef, which is primarily grass fed anyway.

The phrase comes from the USA because it is so different to their lot fed muck. The nutritional analysis I've seen of traditional fed beef against lot feed usually shows a variance in ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 fats and a slight increase in trans fats.

I'd be highly surprised if there was an difference in beef quality if the only difference in two cattle was one was getting 10% of his calories from concentrate.

Our biggest selling point is our cattle are outside foraging in their natural environment most of the time.

Grass fed in an Irish context is majoring in the minors.

Every so often there is some lad on nutrition forum looking for grass fed butter ☺ take your pick buddy...

My cattle spend 6 or 7 months foraging at the barrier in the shed and the rest of the year sinking to their knees in the "fields".
Do they qualify as "grass fed beef"?:)

sthilmick · 03-03-2016 05:41PM

weatherbyfoxer wrote: »

Its very do able with good grassland management and hi dmd silage..friesan bullocks are ideal

There meat often polls high in taste tests too

sthilmick · 03-03-2016 05:59PM

ford2600 wrote: »

The idea is a disservice to our very good quality beef, which is primarily grass fed anyway.

The phrase comes from the USA because it is so different to their lot fed muck. The nutritional analysis I've seen of traditional fed beef against lot feed usually shows a variance in ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 fats and a slight increase in trans fats.

I'd be highly surprised if there was an difference in beef quality if the only difference in two cattle was one was getting 10% of his calories from concentrate.

Our biggest selling point is our cattle are outside foraging in their natural environment most of the time.

Grass fed in an Irish context is majoring in the minors.

Every so often there is some lad on nutrition forum looking for grass fed butter ☺ take your pick buddy...

No disservice to Irish beef but a hell of alot of the bigger producers are using the feedlot system in Ireland. One of them recently said that grass was dead as far as producing beef. I know of two big finishers that have cattle that never see the sight of grass once they enter their yards last year they were buying potatoes to mix with straw maize and concentrates. Cheaper than beet he told me at €20 a tonne I can't disagree with him. I was thinning an oak plantation for him at the time so not some city slicker looking for the latest fad diet. I have a genuine interest in it as a commercial product the creamerys and factories are breaking the backs of the average farmer milk on the most efficient dairy farm can only be produced at 25c Co op paying under 30c hard to make a living from that..

ganmo · 03-03-2016 06:03PM

At an estimate about half of the lamb is 100% grass fed

sthilmick · 03-03-2016 06:04PM

I'd say their getting a few nuts too

Username John · 03-03-2016 06:54PM

sthilmick wrote: »

I'd say their getting a few nuts too

Lambs?

Mid season lamb wouldn't. Early and late lambs yeah, but it wouldn't pay you to feed lambs nuts and sell in the summer time...

Base price · 03-03-2016 06:56PM

Years ago we used to finish bullocks off grass but they would be well into the 2nd year by the time they were fit. In those days there was no problems with factory specs, ages etc. The Friesian bullocks in general were a better made animal than today as they were mainly 100% British Friesian.
As Toplink said it would need branding and a concerted effort to drive it forward. Twenty/thirty odd years ago Hereford and Angus breeders were having severe difficulty selling bulls due to the fact that the focus had turned to the "new breeds" of continental cattle. At that time I never envisaged that there would be a factory premium paid for them, yet here were are today. It was primarily due to hard work, dedication, good advertisement and a belief that these cattle could fill a niche market.

ganmo · 03-03-2016 07:08PM

sthilmick wrote: »

I'd say their getting a few nuts too

a sheep farmers big meal bill is from the last 6 weeks of pregnancy
some lowland lads will have 25% of their lambs sold straight off the ewe with neither getting nuts after lambing

sthilmick · 03-03-2016 07:22PM

ganmo wrote: »

a sheep farmers big meal bill is from the last 6 weeks of pregnancy
some lowland lads will have 25% of their lambs sold straight off the ewe with neither getting nuts after lambing

I don't know anything about sheep other than the taste of lamb but I have seen my neighbour feeling sheep with nuts when driving past never paid much attention to what was getting what. Just had the old fella here given out about the beef he got for Sunday dinner. He said you'd want a chisel to cut it. They used to kill a heffer every year when there was a heap of us at home

Markcheese · 03-03-2016 07:56PM

I've often thought it's a bit rich for bord bia to go on about grass fed beef as finishers head towards finishing out of sheds..
Could well need an additional label as well as a move away from 30 month limit to accomadate slower finishing beasts-
Should be something for mountain lamb too -

selectamatic · 03-03-2016 08:00PM

I would question the viability of finishing today's Fresian bullocks on a strict grass diet many are too tall and narrow to get to the desired grade in the desired time frame.
IMO it'd be a case of following on from what history tells us and that is that the "butty" native breeds are easiest to finish on grass Angus, Hereford being the main two. It just so happens that these are the breeds in demand for the niche market grass fed beef so really they should be the go to breed for anyone looking to get into a system like this.
Finally a good wintering setup (preferably not slats) coupled with good quality silage should see the required thrive over winter that's necessary, as withouts supplements cattle merely maintain or even fail slightly when housed on slats.

sthilmick · 03-03-2016 08:13PM

selectamatic wrote: »

I would question the viability of finishing today's Fresian bullocks on a strict grass diet many are too tall and narrow to get to the desired grade in the desired time frame.
IMO it'd be a case of following on from what history tells us and that is that the "butty" native breeds are easiest to finish on grass Angus, Hereford being the main two. It just so happens that these are the breeds in demand for the niche market grass fed beef so really they should be the go to breed for anyone looking to get into a system like this.
Finally a good wintering setup (preferably not slats) coupled with good quality silage should see the required thrive over winter that's necessary, as withouts supplements cattle merely maintain or even fail slightly when housed on slats.

Slats with a bedding area would be grand and with slat mats. Shorthorn would finish quite well too. I'd expect it to be a niche market but as previously mentioned restaurants and supermarkets charge a premium for it

White Clover · 03-03-2016 08:16PM

selectamatic wrote: »

I would question the viability of finishing today's Fresian bullocks on a strict grass diet many are too tall and narrow to get to the desired grade in the desired time frame.
IMO it'd be a case of following on from what history tells us and that is that the "butty" native breeds are easiest to finish on grass Angus, Hereford being the main two. It just so happens that these are the breeds in demand for the niche market grass fed beef so really they should be the go to breed for anyone looking to get into a system like this.
Finally a good wintering setup (preferably not slats) coupled with good quality silage should see the required thrive over winter that's necessary, as withouts supplements cattle merely maintain or even fail slightly when housed on slats.

Weighed a shot of Bullocks here last Saturday, a mix of Friesian, Angus, Hereford and half a dozen or so simmental. All out of Friesian/ holstein cows. Weighed previous to that on 9th November.
Wintered on slats (no mats) and fed good quality bale silage and 2kg/HD/day of a good 16 % nut. Average weight gain of 0.68kg/HD/day.
Tbh I don't know if they'd have done much better on straw? Haven't bedded cattle here for years.

yosemitesam1 · 03-03-2016 08:24PM

ford2600 wrote: »

The idea is a disservice to our very good quality beef, which is primarily grass fed anyway.

The phrase comes from the USA because it is so different to their lot fed muck. The nutritional analysis I've seen of traditional fed beef against lot feed usually shows a variance in ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 fats and a slight increase in trans fats.

I'd be highly surprised if there was an difference in beef quality if the only difference in two cattle was one was getting 10% of his calories from concentrate.

Our biggest selling point is our cattle are outside foraging in their natural environment most of the time.

Grass fed in an Irish context is majoring in the minors.

Every so often there is some lad on nutrition forum looking for grass fed butter ☺ take your pick buddy...

In fairness to the us lads, their cattle would be totally grass fed apart from finishing so really is every bit as good as ours

sthilmick · 03-03-2016 10:39PM

Markcheese wrote: »

I've often thought it's a bit rich for bord bia to go on about grass fed beef as finishers head towards finishing out of sheds..
Could well need an additional label as well as a move away from 30 month limit to accomadate slower finishing beasts-
Should be something for mountain lamb too -

The 30month and 400kg carcase is just another stick to beat you with if your animal has a 405kg kill out weight what happens to the extra 5kg do they give it back to you f##k no they'll fine you like the quota system they never said ok Pat you've reached your quota we won't be taking any more milk no they'd take it and fine you and keep the milk same old **** with the processors winning changing the rules. Simon Covneys Bro is the head of green core and he said that he couldn't understand why people hadn't felt the recovery they were whinging try make a living from 1/2c per litre or a few cent per kg. That's the same company that got the huge payment for closing the sugar factories so we could help the developing countries but I see British sugar lorries on the road every day

selectamatic · 04-03-2016 01:14AM

White Clover wrote: »

Weighed a shot of Bullocks here last Saturday, a mix of Friesian, Angus, Hereford and half a dozen or so simmental. All out of Friesian/ holstein cows. Weighed previous to that on 9th November.
Wintered on slats (no mats) and fed good quality bale silage and 2kg/HD/day of a good 16 % nut. Average weight gain of 0.68kg/HD/day.
Tbh I don't know if they'd have done much better on straw? Haven't bedded cattle here for years.

No with your system the differences would be minimal as you're feeding nuts/ration also. However if they were only fed silage ad lib that could differ. As I said before I don't think dairy x's are suited to a grass fed system. The best/most consistent wintering setup from what I can remember from the studies I've looked at would be a straw bedded house opening onto a dry field with an adjoining feed area giving good thrive over winter (optimum for native breeds). Full on out-wintering on suitable sheltered land (the Burren being the perfect example) was best as far as I remember. I'm nearly certain this was a teagasc study comparing their various research farm's and their different methods (slats, straw bed, pad, out-winter etc.) A wet winter like this year makes out-wintering tough going or impossible depending on location hence the combo using the feed area, sheltered field and shed is the winner in my book.
I feel the real upshot of not using slats or housing full time is how cattle thrive when they go back to grass in the spring/summer, they hit the ground running where as cattle that have been housed and fed intensively all winter can fail slightly at first if put back on an all grass diet.
The down side is none of this suits intensive highly stocked beef farming but that's not something that suits a grass fed beef system anyways.

sthilmick · 04-03-2016 11:11PM

I started this thread as a discussion on Grass fed beef and wondering if there is anyone at it here I will once again say that it would be a niche product and from the responses I think that there is a place for it as a genuine product but it would require a fair bit of ground work and probably a huge investment on the behalf of anyone who is thinking of going down that route the lotto is 8million tomorrow night if you hear about anyone selling grass fed beef in Ireland in a few years you'll know I won

celtic_oz · 04-03-2016 11:32PM

The bulletproof diet is fairly popular in the states and advocates grass fed everything..

Why grass fed is better https://www.bulletproofexec.com/why-grass-fed-meat-is-healthier-than-grain-fed-an-epic-series/

but-what-it-does-like-is-grass-fed-cows-and-local-foods-plus-a-kicking.jpg

but-what-it-does-like-is-grass-fed-cows-and-local-foods-plus-a-kicking.jpg

I tried the high-tech café that wants to hack your body by adding butter to your coffee http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/feb/06/is-it-worth-it-bulletproof-coffee-review-stuart-heritage

Grass fed beef

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