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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

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    #4202
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    On what am I supposed to base a personal opinion on that subject other than my personal thoughts over whether or not negotiation with the Taliban is a good or bad thing?

    As I told him, I'm not sure I have an opinion. I'm abivalent on the matter, and I explained why I am not totally against the idea, as some seem to think I should be.

    What more do you want?

    Once again, you are trying to move the question to the pros/cons of negotiation with the Taliban! In fact, the question , now repeated ad nauseum, related solely to Trumps invitation to the Terrorists to come to Camp David just days before the 9/11 Anniversary, the root of which they facilitated! Jeez, please stop treating us as idiots, and deal with the issue that was presented, and not some other issue you wish had been raised!

    If you can't (or refuse to) see the point of the question you were asked, then So Be It! No amount of deflection or obfuscation will serve as a useful alternative to a straight answer!

    That's OK. No need to drag it out! I'm saddened that an erstwhile contributor to this discussion should be found lacking in this way!

    As the saying goes: 'you can't take blood from a stone '...


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    #4203
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,272 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    You make it seem like I should care what is a good date to talk to them. We're talking to them or we are not. Yesterday was Tuesday. (Cue Streetfighter clip)

    Yes, I can see why some people might be a little upset at the date. I'm not some people. You ask my opinion, you get my opinion. (or absence thereof)

    [ETA: Since I was there last week filming a documentary, to further explain my lack of reaction, I'm not sure I see much of a difference between that and Japanese pilots showing up at Pearl Harbor on 7th December. Not even the successors; or the current Japanese navy, but the actual pilots who dropped the bombs show up routinely. Well, they used to, until they started dying off. We're good with that now.]


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    #4204
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,174 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Re: 9/11
    As someone that lost a one-time coworker on the flight into the South Tower, and whose wife lost a cousin who was a firefighter among the first companies to rush in, I'm apalled at the crassness of what Trump attempted.

    I watched the towers burn from a lookout near my house in NJ. That weekend, my wife-to-be and I took ferries in to see. You still remember the smell even after this many years.

    Not that negotiating with the Taliban in the abstract is a bad thing - 18 years not winning anything in Afghanistan needs to end. But, negotiations can go on privately in some 3rd party location. Not on US soil with a terrorist group, and in my opinion, that location chosen solely for the photo op opportunity for POTUS45. Disgusting, abhorrent, and par for the course with this administration.

    As for the comparison with WWII Japanese pilots visiting Pearl Harbor, I suppose my parents would feel like I do about the visit to Camp David - abhorrent. It's easier to get past that, 78 years later. Further, the US/Japanese issues were emphatically resolved. The Taliban/US, so far, not yet.


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    #4205
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    You make it seem like I should care what is a good date to talk to them. We're talking to them or we are not. Yesterday was Tuesday. (Cue Streetfighter clip)

    Yes, I can see why some people might be a little upset at the date. I'm not some people. You ask my opinion, you get my opinion. (or absence thereof)

    [ETA: Since I was there last week filming a documentary, to further explain my lack of reaction, I'm not sure I see much of a difference between that and Japanese pilots showing up at Pearl Harbor on 7th December. Not even the successors; or the current Japanese navy, but the actual pilots who dropped the bombs show up routinely. Well, they used to, until they started dying off. We're good with that now.]

    You don’t see the difference between a defeated enemy showing up in solemn memorial and a group who are actively targeting US soldiers?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #4206
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Trump now considering loaning the Iranians $15 billion to tempt them into talks to restart the deal Obama had in place which Trump tore up for no reason.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-flirts-with-dollar15-billion-bailout-for-iran-sources-say


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    #4207
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,174 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    He really did say s**t about haters in a tweet on 9/11. Apparently after ranting about Chrissy Teigen, whoever that is, and something something about China and tariffs.

    And yet, he's odds-on to be reelected imo.

    I'm definitely going to get a copy of 'the collected tweets of DJT' when it's published after his misbegotten Presidency is over. It'll be a big job to index and organize it, but wow what a read it'll be.


    https://www.politifact.com/facebook-fact-checks/article/2019/sep/11/fact-checking-mixed-bag-accusations-trump-and-911/


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    #4208
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Trump now considering loaning the Iranians $15 billion to tempt them into talks to restart the deal Obama had in place which Trump tore up for no reason.
    But sure Trump is all about tearing up any deal that Obama did, then re-doing it, getting almost exactly the same result, and trumpeting it as his major achievement (cf. NAFTA).

    And in general , Trump wants to destroy everything that Obama did, and then possibly re-brand it later. It's mostly to fulfil the Republican agenda, but I think a major factor is what is called the "Edifice Complex" of politicians who want their names on infrastructure and buildings. Since Trump hasn't built (and AFAIK doesn't intend to build) any infrastructure (apart from The Wall), and since he already has his name on many buildings, his variation of this ego-driven behaviour is to have his name on deals.

    So NAFTA becomes Trump's much-less-easy-to-pronounce and not-yet-ratified, USMCA, and the Obama Iran deal will become the Trump Iran deal, and so on ...

    Speculating somewhat on my part, but I think that another factor at play, in attempting to destroy Obama's legacy, is revenge for the humiliation inflicted by Obama on Trump at the 2011 White House Correspondent's Dinner. I believe that Trump has never forgotten or forgiven Obama for that. And it was even more galling that it came from a black man.


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    #4209
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,272 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Brian? wrote: »
    You don’t see the difference between a defeated enemy showing up in solemn memorial and a group who are actively targeting US soldiers?

    I do, which is why I'm more ambivalent about it.

    However, the counterpoint is that if we weren't fighting them, there wouldn't be much need for negotiation either, would there?


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    #4210
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,203 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    https://twitter.com/cspan/status/1172151345299841027?s=20

    After months of obfuscation by the Republicans, the Dems pass a resolution which basically starts an impeachment enquiry. Stronger powers and more urgency attached to their investigations.

    Did anyone else notice the change in narrative from Trump supporters - they used to say "go ahead and impeach - it'll fail!" to what they say now which is.... Poor Trump did nothing wrong/witchhunt/hoax etc etc".

    It's almost as if they don't fancy it anymore.


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    #4211
    ilkhanid
    Registered Users Posts: 904 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Yes, but here in Ireland we are none of those things.

    Trump is obviously much worse for America and Americans than Obama or, say Dubya, but in World terms Trump is mostly just a clown. He hasn't killed tens or hundreds of thousands of non-American folks the way American Presidents often do, he just tweets pro-dictator nonsense and steals US taxpayers money.

    Mainly "not our problem" kind of stuff.

    Trump withdrawing from the Climate Accords (not to mention the encouragement it has given to climate deniers in other countries like Bolsonaro) may affect human life in numbers that will dwarf any number of wars. And he may not have started any wars himself but his practise of giving Carte blanche to the Saudis has led to any amount of trouble in the Middle East. That the consequence have not been even worse is more down to Saudi incompetence and military ineptitude than Trump statecraft.


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    #4212
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    ilkhanid wrote: »
    Trump withdrawing from the Climate Accords (not to mention the encouragement it has given to climate deniers in other countries like Bolsonaro) may affect human life in numbers that will dwarf any number of wars.

    Yes, but that is just ordinary Republican policy, any of the contenders for the Republican nomination would have done that.

    The difference with Trump is not that he is more extreme than other Republicans, he isn't. The difference is that he is really bad at the job - lazy, stupid, incompetent and corrupt. Any other Republican would have gotten a lot more done by now, all of it bad.


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    #4213
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭serfboard


    ilkhanid wrote: »
    his practise of giving Carte blanche to the Saudis has led to any amount of trouble in the Middle East.
    What US administration did not give carte blanche to the Saudis?


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    #4214
    rocksolidfat
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭rocksolidfat


    serfboard wrote: »
    What US administration did not give carte blanche to the Saudis?

    If you skip back a few years, it was one of the number one reasons listed as why Trump would be so much better than any US president in US history. Today, his supporters never seem to want to talk about it.

    What is ironic is that for as good as every Trump supporter, right up near the top of their 'political enemies' list is Justin Trudeau from Canada, who has been one of the most vocal of all world leaders against the Saudis, who took in the Saudi refugee girl in that headline case from a few months ago, who has introduced sanctions against Saudi nationals following the Khashoggi murder, and who appears to be in the process of cancelling arms deals with the Saudis.

    It is funny, because the same Trump supporters who were so ardent that he would put Saudi in it's place and would be the best President ever because of this, also refuse to acknowledge the above about Trudeau.

    As with most inexplicable contradictions like this when it comes to Trump supporters, it appears to be about proving loyalty more than actually believing in anything.


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    #4215
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,544 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Manic, what I don't understand is why people accept that Trump needs to talk to the likes of the Taliban and NK, yet are at the same time happy that he openly dismisses allies and threatens the break up of NATO.

    Seems to me that he wants it both ways. He wants to be the peacemaker, talking doesn't cost anything etc, yet at the same time he is the great counter puncher and will always stand up by MAGA.

    It is not that we wants to talk, I think everyone can agree that talking is the best option, but why such widely different approaches?


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    #4216
    rocksolidfat
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭rocksolidfat


    Igotadose wrote: »
    I'm definitely going to get a copy of 'the collected tweets of DJT' when it's published after his misbegotten Presidency is over. It'll be a big job to index and organize it, but wow what a read it'll be
    You can already find it online, and as the saying goes, there really is a tweet for everything. Here is today's example, since he has given then $15bn now to basically get back Obama's deal that Trump needlessly did away with:

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/965194903142719489?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E965194903142719489&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fd35jcs%3Fresponsive%3Dtrue%26is_nightmode%3Dtrue

    https://www.reddit.com/r/TrumpCriticizesTrump/


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    #4217
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Andrew Mc Cabe is occupying minds in the DoJ again, as they try to finalise a prosecution against him. Whilst it would no doubt be a crippling matter for Mc Cabe, a big part of me hopes that they do actually prosecute, as the Discovery process ought to dig into loads of interesting areas, including internal communications between POTUS, Rosenstein, Sessions, Barr and others relating to Mc Cabe''s firing, as well as New York FBI office support for Trump up to 2016.


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    #4218
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,887 ✭✭✭Christy42


    serfboard wrote: »
    What US administration did not give carte blanche to the Saudis?

    Who campaigned on finally putting it to the Saudis while blaming them for the 9/11 attacks?

    I can think of one off hand but he quickly changed his mind when he saw money.

    As an aside Obama did start putting pressure on the Saudis but far too late in his administration. Obviously Trump removed these pressures as soon as a Saudi official talked to him.


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    #4219
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Has anyone else noticed there seems to have been a rapid deterioration in the President’s mental capacity in recent weeks? The slurred speech, forgetfulness, mistakes etc seem to be becoming far more common.

    It seems to be worsening at pace these days. He might not even make it to the next election the way he’s going. Watching videos of him talk now vs a few years ago and the difference is frightening.


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    #4220
    everlast75
    Registered Users Posts: 19,203 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    marno21 wrote: »
    Has anyone else noticed there seems to have been a rapid deterioration in the President’s mental capacity in recent weeks? The slurred speech, forgetfulness, mistakes etc seem to be becoming far more common.

    It seems to be worsening at pace these days. He might not even make it to the next election the way he’s going. Watching videos of him talk now vs a few years ago and the difference is frightening.

    There are rumours of adderall addiction or advanced syphilis, but without a proper checkup from a proper doctor (see the last two he recruited, the first admitting that Trump basically wrote the "diagnosis" and the doc signed it) we won't know for some time. The guy lies about his height ffs. Any info needs to be dragged out of him.


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    #4221
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭serfboard


    rocksolidfat wrote: »
    If you skip back a few years, it was one of the number one reasons listed as why Trump would be so much better than any US president in US history. Today, his supporters never seem to want to talk about it.
    Christy42 wrote: »
    Who campaigned on finally putting it to the Saudis while blaming them for the 9/11 attacks?
    Sure who campaigned against Goldman Sachs and then stuffed his cabinet full of Goldman Sachs alumni?

    Anyone who believed that any US administration was going to go against the Saudis in any way, was at best naive, and at worst ill-informed or clueless.

    America's Middle East policy has remained unchanged for decades - Israel and the Saudis can do what they want, and any oil-rich country in the region not an ally of the US is ripe to be invaded. The only exception to this is Iran, and despite all the US tough talk, they won't invade Iran.


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    #4222
    Christy42
    Registered Users Posts: 7,887 ✭✭✭Christy42


    serfboard wrote: »
    Sure who campaigned against Goldman Sachs and then stuffed his cabinet full of Goldman Sachs alumni?

    Anyone who believed that any US administration was going to go against the Saudis in any way, was at best naive, and at worst ill-informed or clueless.

    America's Middle East policy has remained unchanged for decades - Israel and the Saudis can do what they want, and any oil-rich country in the region not an ally of the US is ripe to be invaded. The only exception to this is Iran, and despite all the US tough talk, they won't invade Iran.

    What is the link between Goldman Sachs and the Saudis? I am a little confused about that topic change.

    I don't care what is policy has been for decades. Trump campaigned on being hard on them. He has been a failure. I agree no one with sense would have believed the man but I would say that about all the policies he campaigned on.


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    #4223
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Christy42 wrote: »
    I agree no one with sense would have believed the man but I would say that about all the policies he campaigned on.
    Indeed. And I gave one example in Goldman Sachs.

    The only campaign promise he kept is being harder on poor migrants. And he didn't even get that right. He (ignorantly) campaigned against Mexicans, whereas NAFTA has meant there are far fewer Mexicans emigrating to the US now. The bulk of Latin American immigration now is from Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras.

    But that distinction is lost on Trump. They're brown and Spanish-speaking so they're "Mexicans".


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    #4224
    Igotadose
    Registered Users Posts: 13,174 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Fun fact: Irish word for 'sponger' or 'parasite' per teanglann.ie: Trumpa.


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    #4225
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Igotadose wrote: »
    Fun fact: Irish word for 'sponger' or 'parasite' per teanglann.ie: Trumpa.
    You should tell that to Galway-West's own Donald Trump - Noel Grealish.


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    #4226
    PropJoe10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    marno21 wrote: »
    Has anyone else noticed there seems to have been a rapid deterioration in the President’s mental capacity in recent weeks? The slurred speech, forgetfulness, mistakes etc seem to be becoming far more common.

    It seems to be worsening at pace these days. He might not even make it to the next election the way he’s going. Watching videos of him talk now vs a few years ago and the difference is frightening.

    Was watching a clip from last year and even then he seemed a lot more clued in than he has been in the last month or so. You can see it in his speech patterns that something is wrong.

    I'd say the Republicans would love to try to quietly get him to step down but the chances of that happening are about as good as me becoming President of Ireland. Trump does not do "going quietly".


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    #4227
    EltonJohn69
    Registered Users Posts: 4,195 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    I said it a few months ago.... his brain is starting to rot.....last night he got Mike Pence’s name wrong....it’s only going to get worse and it will be a horrible and sad spectacle to watch.....It’s ironic considering him and fox spent so long saying Hillary’s health was deteriorating


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    #4228
    PropJoe10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    EltonJohn69 wrote: »
    I said it a few months ago.... his brain is starting to rot.....last night he got Mike Pence’s name wrong....it’s only going to get worse and it will be a horrible and sad spectacle to watch.....It’s ironic considering him and fox spent so long saying Hillary’s health was deteriorating

    Yep. I mean, that sharpie thing was absolutely inexplicable. How dumb does he honestly think people are?


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    #4229
    Gwen Cooper
    Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭Gwen Cooper


    PropJoe10 wrote: »
    Yep. I mean, that sharpie thing was absolutely inexplicable. How dumb does he honestly think people are?

    I don't think it's about him thinking that people are dumb. He basically got used to getting away with everything stupid, he will brush of any critisism as fake news and he knows that his supporters will believe him rather than their own eyes, he has nothing to worry about.


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    #4230
    PropJoe10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    He's now decided that he looks orange because of energy efficient lightbulbs:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/13/politics/trump-orange-light-bulbs/index.html

    We live in remarkable times.


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    #4231
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,681 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    The light bulbs make his look orange ? You see in normal times you'd think that was a funny joke and you'd laugh or ignore it. The problem with trump is you're not exactly sure if he's joking or not. For all we know he may 100 % believe that these new lightbulbs make him look orange. The only problem is he looks orange whether near lightbulbs or not.


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