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Should some vaccinations be mandatory?

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  • 12-09-2019 3:22pm
    #1
    Wombatman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭


    Minister for Health Simon Harris when asked if he would introduce mandatory vaccination for children and ban unvaccinated youngsters from schools, he said: "I do have a very open mind in relation to the issue of mandatory vaccines. I see this as something that is being raised in lots of other countries and Ireland needs to be part of that debate."

    "It does not sit well with me that you would send your child to a creche without being vaccinated and knowing that not only are you putting their health at risk but other children’s health too."

    "When it comes to schools, children have a constitutional right to education and there are rights that need to be balanced but there is also a public health issue."

    Should some vaccinations be mandatory? 104 votes

    In some cases, yes.
    75% 79 votes
    Never.
    24% 25 votes


«13

Comments

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    #2
    TommyKnocker
    Registered Users Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭TommyKnocker


    No, IMHO. But there should be more done to educate people on the issue and debunk the anti vaxxer spiel. Also goverment's and the pharma industry need to be more transparent with the possible side effects of the vaccines. There are stories of apparently healthy children having adverse effects to vaccines and this should be clearly stated if true and not hidden.

    Surely in the scenario Simon mentioned it is only the unvaxed child that is at risk. All other children who have been vaxed should be covered.


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    #3
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    TommyKnocker wrote: »
    Surely in the scenario Simon mentioned it is only the unvaxed child that is at risk. All other children who have been vaxed should be covered.

    The problem is unvaccinated people carrying the virus and infecting children too young to have received their full vaccinations. Widespread vaccination reduces the risk of the virus being active in the wider community.


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    #4
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Yes, the criminal stupidity of some parents has to be overcome to protect the general public. Why should anyone else be exposed to illness and indeed potentially deadly illness because of refuseniks?


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    #5
    Keano
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭Keano


    TommyKnocker wrote: »
    No, IMHO. But there should be more done to educate people on the issue and debunk the anti vaxxer spiel. Also goverment's and the pharma industry need to be more transparent with the possible side effects of the vaccines. There are stories of apparently healthy children having adverse effects to vaccines and this should be clearly stated if true and not hidden.

    Surely in the scenario Simon mentioned it is only the unvaxed child that is at risk. All other children who have been vaxed should be covered.

    Who are hiding them?


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    #6
    Princess Calla
    Registered Users Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    Yes, there are many children who can't get vaccinated due to other health issues. These children rely on herd immunity.


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    #7
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    Yes, mandatory. No children’s allowance if you refuse to comply. The anti vaccination movement is a load of conspiracy theory lead nonsense.


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    #8
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    How could mandatory vaccination be implemented?

    I'm just curious. A parent could just not bring their child to the doctor, or if they did bring them for some other reason, could a doctor administer a vaccine to the child without consent? That could be classed as an assault. Would the public health nurse be sent to the door?

    I'm not anti-vax, both my kids got all their vaccines, but I'm just wondering out loud how it would work.


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    #9
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    To protect children from their idiot parents, yes.


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    #10
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    TommyKnocker wrote: »
    No, IMHO. But there should be more done to educate people on the issue and debunk the anti vaxxer spiel. Also goverment's and the pharma industry need to be more transparent with the possible side effects of the vaccines. There are stories of apparently healthy children having adverse effects to vaccines and this should be clearly stated if true and not hidden.

    Surely in the scenario Simon mentioned it is only the unvaxed child that is at risk. All other children who have been vaxed should be covered.

    You know that annoying piece of paper you find inside your box of tablets or bottle of calpol etc?? That normally has all of the side effects, along with the ratio of people it affected.

    Some people cannot take the vaccine. They are at most risk.


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    #11
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,175 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    Mandatory. No vaccines, no school. No school, truant officer calling to the door. You can be an idiot on your own dime. Endanger me or mine, you're going down.


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    #12
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    AulWan wrote: »
    How could mandatory vaccination be implemented?

    I'm just curious. A parent could just not bring their child to the doctor, or if they did bring them for some other reason, could a doctor administer a vaccine to the child without consent? That could be classed as an assault. Would the public health nurse be sent to the door?

    I'm not anti-vax, both my kids got all their vaccines, but I'm just wondering out loud how it would work.

    usually it's done in conjunction with school enrollment. No schooling without a vax cert.


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    #13
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    AulWan wrote: »
    How could mandatory vaccination be implemented?

    I'm just curious. A parent could just not bring their child to the doctor, or if they did bring them for some other reason, could a doctor administer a vaccine to the child without consent? That could be classed as an assault. Would the public health nurse be sent to the door?

    I'm not anti-vax, both my kids got all their vaccines, but I'm just wondering out loud how it would work.

    Need your vaccination record to get CA, attend playschool or attend mainstream school.


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    #14
    Princess Calla
    Registered Users Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    AulWan wrote: »
    How could mandatory vaccination be implemented?

    I'm just curious. A parent could just not bring their child to the doctor, or if they did bring them for some other reason, could a doctor administer a vaccine to the child without consent? That could be classed as an assault. Would the public health nurse be sent to the door?

    I'm not anti-vax, both my kids got all their vaccines, but I'm just wondering out loud how it would work.

    My first had a rocky start so vaccinations were behind schedule on the advice of medical team, I did get letters from hse reminding me..... Fully vaccinated now so not sure what their next step would have been.

    Crèche also looked for details of vaccinations.


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    #15
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,813 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Not providing vaccinations should be treated just as any other failure or refusal to provide vital medical treatment for your children as child neglect and possibly result in having your children taken away. Schools and creches and preschools need to require vaccination certificate.


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    #16
    charlietheminxx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭charlietheminxx


    Yes, I believe they should be mandatory except in cases where there is a legitimate medical reason why the child can't receive the vaccine.

    Look at all the countries losing their measles-free status at the moment as a result of the anti-MMR crowd? The risks of someone with a compromised immune system, such as a baby or a transplant patient, being exposed to measles and mumps is higher than it was 20 years ago, and it can be lethal.


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    #17
    chrissb8
    Registered Users Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭chrissb8


    Just like we have fluoride in our water to strengthen our enamel and teeth Vaccines should be mandatory. I mean what like, do you want to get a disease or have the opportunity to get a disease or something? Or worse yet spread it to other people? Vaccines go beyond just your personal decision.


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    #18
    Iscreamkone
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    Unless you have a medical reason for not being vaccinated then you should.
    If you CHOOSE not to vaccinate your children then you should not be allowed access to creches, public schools and also any clubs where children attend. Soccer, GAA, Rugby etc.

    If you don't vaccinate then you and your children should be shunned like the lepers of old.


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    #19
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Iscreamkone wrote: »
    Unless you have a medical reason for not being vaccinated then you should.
    If you CHOOSE not to vaccinate your children then you should not be allowed access to creches, public schools and also any clubs where children attend. Soccer, GAA, Rugby etc.

    If you don't vaccinate then you and your children should be shunned like the lepers of old.

    Yeah, let's punish the children for the actions of their parents. Makes perfect sense and won't have an effect on them at all.

    No, I dont think vaccinations should be mandatory because I dont think that removing parental choice and consent in such matters is really a good idea. It makes me very uneasy.

    My child is fully vaccinated so I'm not a "crazy" anti vaxxer before anyone says that. I respect people's choices and some are for valid reasons and not based on conspiracy theories.


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    #20
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,813 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Removal parental choice is the most unfounded argument there is! There is no choice in this matter, vaccines are safe and absolutely required.
    Do you have the parental choice of not feeding your child?


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    #21
    charlietheminxx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭charlietheminxx


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    My child is fully vaccinated so I'm not a "crazy" anti vaxxer before anyone says that. I respect people's choices and some are for valid reasons and not based on conspiracy theories.

    Like what though? Aside from a medical issue that prevents vaccination, what is a valid reason?

    It is the law for parents to educate their children, for their benefit and that of society, should parents have a right to say no to that as well?


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    #22
    Keano
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,802 Mod ✭✭✭✭Keano


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Yeah, let's punish the children for the actions of their parents. Makes perfect sense and won't have an effect on them at all.

    No, I dont think vaccinations should be mandatory because I dont think that removing parental choice in any matter involving a person's children is really a good idea.

    My child is fully vaccinated so I'm not a "crazy" anti vaxxer before anyone says that. I respect people's choices and some are for valid reasons and not based on conspiracy theories.

    Those that have valid reasons are few and far between.


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    #23
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Cordell wrote: »
    Removal parental choice is the most unfounded argument there is! There is no choice in this matter, vaccines are safe and absolutely required.
    Do you have the parental choice of not feeding your child?

    No vaccine is 100% safe, there is always the chance of severe adverse effects, however small that may be. Some parents dont want to take that risk for various reasons.


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    #24
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    No vaccine is 100% safe, there is always the chance of severe adverse effects, however small that may be. Some parents dont want to take that risk for various reasons.

    That's true of eating peanuts, going for a swim, or driving a car...


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    #25
    charlietheminxx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭charlietheminxx


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    No vaccine is 100% safe, there is always the chance of severe adverse effects, however small that may be. Some parents dont want to take that risk for various reasons.

    Have there ever been proven severe effects to the standard vaccine schedule in Ireland? I don't think those parents have a right to increase the risk of other people dying through a preventable serious illness, which is a known and proven threat.


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    #26
    Iscreamkone
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Yeah, let's punish the children for the actions of their parents. Makes perfect sense and won't have an effect on them at all.

    No, I dont think vaccinations should be mandatory because I dont think that removing parental choice and consent in such matters is really a good idea. It makes me very uneasy.

    My child is fully vaccinated so I'm not a "crazy" anti vaxxer before anyone says that. I respect people's choices and some are for valid reasons and not based on conspiracy theories.

    The ONLY valid reason for not being vaccinated is a medical one.

    How about let's punish the children who can't get vaccines by allowing the anti-vaxxer's kids to infect them with measles and the like.

    You wouldn't respect someones choice to allow their kid bring a gun to school, would you?


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    #27
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    charlietheminxx wrote: »
    Like what though? Aside from a medical issue that prevents vaccination, what is a valid reason?

    It is the law for parents to educate their children, for their benefit and that of society, should parents have a right to say no to that as well?

    Well I said it before on the other thread, that a friend of mine chose not to vaccinate her child because her own brother was left severely disabled after being vaccinated. He was one of the very unlucky ones. He received a multi million dollar payout from the government to provide for the care he needed for the rest of his life (this is in the US)

    She has no idea if the potential for such a reaction could be hereditary so she will not risk it. I completely understand that and I would consider that a medical choice not to tbh. Her sons doctors fully support her decision btw as they are aware of her family history.


    Her son is my daughters best friend, I'm not going to shun him because of it, as suggested earlier ffs. That's just ridiculous.


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    #28
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,813 ✭✭✭Cordell


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    No vaccine is 100% safe, there is always the chance of severe adverse effects, however small that may be. Some parents dont want to take that risk for various reasons.

    It's the risk/benefit ratio, tl:dr version is actually safer to take the risk of giving the vaccine.
    Choking on their food happens more often than serious vaccine adverse reactions yet most parents still insist to feed their children.


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    #29
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,111 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Cordell wrote: »
    It's the risk/benefit ratio, tl:dr version is actually safer to take the risk of giving the vaccine.
    Choking on their food happens more often than serious vaccine adverse reactions yet most parents still insist to feed their children.

    Yeah whatever. Dont really want to get into a debate about all that. You dont need to "convert" me, I already said that my child is fully vaccinated and will continue to be. I just dont agree with mandatory vaccinations


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    #30
    Pauliedragon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    Iscreamkone wrote: »
    The ONLY valid reason for not being vaccinated is a medical one.

    How about let's punish the children who can't get vaccines by allowing the anti-vaxxer's kids to infect them with measles and the like.

    You wouldn't respect someones choice to allow their kid bring a gun to school, would you?
    What if those parents actions are to the detriment of other children? A baby in Perth Aus died recently. It turns out she got infected with measles from an unvaccinated child she came in contact with.


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    #31
    Iscreamkone
    Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Iscreamkone


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Well I said it before on the other thread, that a friend of mine chose not to vaccinate her child because her own brother was left severely disabled after being vaccinated. He was one of the very unlucky ones. He received a multi million dollar payout from the government to provide for the care he needed for the rest of his life (this is in the US)

    She has no idea if the potential for such a reaction could be hereditary so she will not risk it. I completely understand that and I would consider that a medical choice not to tbh. Her sons doctors fully support her decision btw as they are aware of her family history.


    Her son is my daughters best friend, I'm not going to shun him because of it, as suggested earlier ffs. That's just ridiculous.

    If I knew someone didn't get their child vaccinated then I'd have that child banned from my child's birthday parties, play dates etc. Fair is fair!


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