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Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

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Comments

  • #7232
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    BBC Newsnight confirm the NI backstop rumours:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-politics-49639294?__twitter_impression=true


  • #7233
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,344 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Weemcd posted about Bercow, 'I'd love to buy him a pint.'
    So you'll go to the bar and say I want to 'ORDER ORDER' two pints.


  • #7234
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    As an aside, Varadkar's reference to Ireland being Johnson's Athena was very clever. There are a number of parallels. Firstly, in Greek mythology, Athena was the goddess who knocked Hercules out when he went mad, killed his own children and was about to kill his father. So Ireland/Athena is restraining an insane Johnson/Hercules. Secondly, Athena was sometimes known as the goddess of democracy. So Ireland/Athena represents democracy versus a violent Johnson/Hercules. Thirdly, Athena was also Hercules' half-sister which symbolises the historic ties between Ireland and the UK.

    If memory serves Athena helped Hercules out in numerous ways during his Labours, could be a reference to any of them really

    She was also a goddess who championed strategy and guile over brute force (Ares/Boris)

    Hopefully Coveney is now going to show up perching a Corinthian helm atop his bonce


  • #7235
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    The BBC's Nick Robinson:

    How to sum up last few days for Boris Johnson:

    5 days in Commons + 5 major defeats - 21 Tory MPs = 0 majority + 0 election + 0 plan for Brexit + 5 weeks of Parliament suspended.


  • #7236
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,143 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    An Ciarraioch wrote: »
    Apparently, his speechwriter is Patrick Geoghegan, of Talking History fame.

    Well Mr. Geoghegan hit the spot today anyway. Johnson was grinning like a Cheshire cat at the references. He was off the reservation before that though.

    But I wonder if he realised the forensic meaning behind them immediately. I doubt it.

    Whatever our views might be on LV/FG, he was just so polished, professional and statesmanlike today. I was very proud to have him representing us on the World stage.

    The comparison between both of them was so evident.


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  • #7237
    Imreoir2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Imreoir2


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    As an aside, Varadkar's reference to Ireland being Johnson's Athena was very clever. There are a number of parallels. Firstly, in Greek mythology, Athena was the goddess who knocked Hercules out when he went mad, killed his own children and was about to kill his father. So Ireland/Athena is restraining an insane Johnson/Hercules. Secondly, Athena was sometimes known as the goddess of democracy. So Ireland/Athena represents democracy versus a violent Johnson/Hercules. Thirdly, Athena was also Hercules' half-sister which symbolises the historic ties between Ireland and the UK.

    Also, being a goddess, surely Athena was far more powerful than the demi-god Hercules?


  • #7238
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,834 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    ath262 wrote: »
    dream team upcoming the the EU Trade Commission - Tony Connelly understands that big Phil will be confirmed as EU's chief trade negotiator... He will be assisted by the secretary general of DG Trade by Sabine Weyand, one of the leading negotiators in Michel Barnier's Brexit Task Force

    https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1171148606964994049

    this is so funny really :D

    they are going to shaft Ireland any time now...


  • #7239
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,834 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Well Mr. Geoghegan hit the spot today anyway. Johnson was grinning like a Cheshire cat at the references. He was off the reservation before that though.

    But I wonder if he realised the forensic meaning behind them immediately. I doubt it.

    Whatever our views might be on LV/FG, he was just so polished, professional and statesmanlike today. I was very proud to have him representing us on the World stage.

    The comparison between both of them was so evident.

    What was this about?

    https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1171052439111442432

    :confused::D


  • #7240
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    This argument is sometimes used incorrectly but in this case I think it is apt. If civil servants didn't do anything wrong in regards to prorogation why would they be scared of their personal communications being looked at? Unless they think some civil servant lead the way other than Cummings, there shouldn't be any problem with them giving over their personal devices to check what they have done.


  • #7241
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,337 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    A couple of "Chalk and cheese" observations, after the fun and games today:
    (1) While there's many a boards.ie member (and undoubtedly many a propper-up of the bar in pubs around the country) who moan long and loud about Leo Varadkar's failure as a politician, the contrast between him and Boris Johnson in terms of statesmanliness this morning was impressive. Not having had a vote in Ireland for more than two decades, he's not really "my" Taoiseach, but watching the press conference from afar, I am proud to see my country's government led by someone who looks and acts like they belong on the world stage.
    (2) Several hours after Johnson's amateur buffoonery in Dublin, John Bercow's "stepping down" speech was a very welcome dose of erudite oratory: a clear and waffle-free statement of what he was doing, when he'd do it, and how he'd come to his decision.

    Strange as it may seem on the day when the "mother of all democracies" is shut down for no good reason, it's reassuring to know that politics is not rotten to the core: that there are still examples of quality to be found in the corridors and chambers of power.

    Edit to acknowledge Spanish Eyes getting his/her post in while I was writing! Interesting use of the same vocabulary! :)


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  • #7242
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    Also, being a goddess, surely Athena was far more powerful than the demi-god Hercules?

    Exactly, especially as she was the daughter of Zeus. Interestingly, she was somewhat of an immaculate conception as she grew out of Zeus's head and had no mother. Which makes her very powerful. But we veer off topic.


  • #7243
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,477 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    As an aside, Varadkar's reference to Ireland being Johnson's Athena was very clever. There are a number of parallels. Firstly, in Greek mythology, Athena was the goddess who knocked Hercules out when he went mad, killed his own children and was about to kill his father. So Ireland/Athena is restraining an insane Johnson/Hercules. Secondly, Athena was sometimes known as the goddess of democracy. So Ireland/Athena represents democracy versus a violent Johnson/Hercules. Thirdly, Athena was also Hercules' half-sister which symbolises the historic ties between Ireland and the UK.

    As much as I enjoyed that (and there is something satisfying in it), I can see how it might enrage some people unnecessarily. It could perhaps appear to display an attitude that might be interpreted as being a little too 'smug' and cock-sure at the moment, with 'the weight of the EU behind us', and at this time of existential crisis for the UK.

    Basically, It is a fine balance, and we should try to keep to the high ground so far as possible. We do of course have some moral righteousness through the weight of our history to power us in defending our interests RE the UK - and England in particular - but I prefer us to remain more magnanimous in an official capacity for these type of events, even in the face of such wreckless incompetence. The media were there to ask the tough questions.

    So... be firm, tough, and stand our ground, but maybe invoking the Greek Gods and casting ourselves in an allegorical manner as the hero to save the UK is perhaps a little too much.

    While Johnson was fairly shambolic in the event as per usual, it must be conceded that he did at least acknowledge - in Dublin - that Ireland did not want or ask for 'the Brexit conundrum'. This is something Coveney in particular has said repeatedly for the last few years - a core message, delivered. Despite everything, and as much as I hold Johnson in contempt, I feel he made some effort, and anyway he knows we will not give on this.

    Tl:dr ramble- no need to kick them while they are burning their house down.

    The big question is whether there really was any genuine discussions between Johnson and Varadkar? There's not much to discuss untill there is a UK government that can pass a deal in Westminster? I'm not sure what Johnson 'got' from this exercise other than another kicking.


  • #7244
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »

    Whatever our views might be on LV/FG, he was just so polished, professional and statesmanlike today. I was very proud to have him representing us on the World stage.

    The comparison between both of them was so evident.


    I think a stuffed shirt delivering those lines would look statesmanlike beside Boris. Leo did well today, don't get me wrong, but clearly stating our country's position without acting like an @ss is something that all leaders should be able to do.


  • #7245
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,187 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    J Mysterio wrote: »
    As much as I enjoyed that (and there is something satisfying in it), I can see how it might enrage some people unnecessarily. It could perhaps appear to display an attitude that might be interpreted as being a little too 'smug' and cock-sure at the moment, with 'the weight of the EU behind us', and at this time of existential crisis for the UK.

    Basically, It is a fine balance, and we should try to keep to the high ground so far as possible. We do of course have some moral righteousness through the weight of our history to power us in defending our interests RE the UK - and England in particular - but I prefer us to remain more magnanimous in an official capacity for these type of events, even in the face of such wreckless incompetence. The media were there to ask the tough questions.

    So... be firm, tough, and stand our ground, but maybe invoking the Greek Gods and casting ourselves in an allegorical manner as the hero to save the UK is perhaps a little too much.

    While Johnson was fairly shambolic in the event as per usual, it must be conceded that he did at least acknowledge - in Dublin - that Ireland did not want or ask for 'the Brexit conundrum'. This is something Coveney in particular has said repeatedly for the last few years - a core message, delivered. Despite everything, and as much as I hold Johnson in contempt, I feel he made some effort, and anyway he knows we will not give on this.

    Tl:dr ramble- no need to kick them while they are burning their house down.

    The big question is whether there really was any genuine discussions between Johnson and Varadkar? There's not much to discuss untill there is a UK government that can pass a deal in Westminster? I'm not sure what Johnson 'got' from this exercise other than another kicking.

    Disagree entirely.

    The references were well received across the way.

    Your reading too much into it. Sensible talk is all it came across as.


  • #7246
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75,782 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Exactly, especially as she was the daughter of Zeus. Interestingly, she was somewhat of an immaculate conception as she grew out of Zeus's head and had no mother. Which makes her very powerful. But we veer off topic.

    Ah, one of the Cork Athena's so.


  • #7247
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,392 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    J Mysterio wrote: »
    As much as I enjoyed that (and there is something satisfying in it), I can see how it might enrage some people unnecessarily. It could perhaps appear to display an attitude that might be interpreted as being a little too 'smug' and cock-sure at the moment, with 'the weight of the EU behind us', and at this time of existential crisis for the UK.

    Basically, It is a fine balance, and we should try to keep to the high ground so far as possible. We do of course have some moral righteousness through the weight of our history to power us in defending our interests RE the UK - and England in particular - but I prefer us to remain more magnanimous in an official capacity for these type of events, even in the face of such wreckless incompetence. The media were there to ask the tough questions.

    So... be firm, tough, and stand our ground, but maybe invoking the Greek Gods and casting ourselves in an allegorical manner as the hero to save the UK is perhaps a little too much.

    While Johnson was fairly shambolic in the event as per usual, it must be conceded that he did at least acknowledge - in Dublin - that Ireland did not want or ask for 'the Brexit conundrum'. This is something Coveney in particular has said repeatedly for the last few years - a core message, delivered. Despite everything, and as much as I hold Johnson in contempt, I feel he made some effort, and anyway he knows we will not give on this.

    Tl:dr ramble- no need to kick them while they are burning their house down.

    The big question is whether there really was any genuine discussions between Johnson and Varadkar? There's not much to discuss untill there is a UK government that can pass a deal in Westminster? I'm not sure what Johnson 'got' from this exercise other than another kicking.

    Johnson smiled as Vradakar made the reference. I doubt if too much was read into it other than it being a bit of a gentle poke in the ribs. I wonder if he dashed over to run the NI only backstop past the Irish.


  • #7248
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,477 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Johnson smiled as Vradakar made the reference. I doubt if too much was read into it other than it being a bit of a gentle poke in the ribs. I wonder if he dashed over to run the NI only backstop past the Irish.

    To me, it was a grimace. I was imagining him saying to himself: 'oh, you bastard'. Haha.


  • #7249
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,477 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    lawred2 wrote: »
    What was this about?

    https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1171052439111442432

    :confused::D

    I hadn't noticed that, it's incredible. That was a physical tic right there. Perhaps an unconscious stretch to relieve the stress/ tension/ pressure.

    He looks quite ridiculous in that clip.


  • #7250
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,143 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    CelticRambler wrote: »
    A couple of "Chalk and cheese" observations, after the fun and games today:
    (1) While there's many a boards.ie member (and undoubtedly many a propper-up of the bar in pubs around the country) who moan long and loud about Leo Varadkar's failure as a politician, the contrast between him and Boris Johnson in terms of statesmanliness this morning was impressive. Not having had a vote in Ireland for more than two decades, he's not really "my" Taoiseach, but watching the press conference from afar, I am proud to see my country's government led by someone who looks and acts like they belong on the world stage.
    (2) Several hours after Johnson's amateur buffoonery in Dublin, John Bercow's "stepping down" speech was a very welcome dose of erudite oratory: a clear and waffle-free statement of what he was doing, when he'd do it, and how he'd come to his decision.

    Strange as it may seem on the day when the "mother of all democracies" is shut down for no good reason, it's reassuring to know that politics is not rotten to the core: that there are still examples of quality to be found in the corridors and chambers of power.

    Edit to acknowledge Spanish Eyes getting his/her post in while I was writing! Interesting use of the same vocabulary! :)

    Glad you (and others to be fair) think the same thing!

    At times like this I think we need to ditch tribal/political allegiances and just back the person who is doing their best for us as a nation right now.


  • #7251
    trellheim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,213 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Big Phil is a politician. Sabine Weyand.... though.. she scares me ... I am very happy she is on our side

    On a lighter note a tweet I saw just there made me chuckle

    "well done to Boris Johnson taking the record as the PM for losing their first 5 votes in the house in a row, taking the award from the previous winner... Boris Johnson with four"


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  • #7252
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,187 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    J Mysterio wrote: »
    I hadn't noticed that, it's incredible. That was a physical tic right there. Perhaps an unconscious stretch to relieve the stress/ tension/ pressure.

    He looks quite ridiculous in that clip.

    Every bit of it done to death, he literally does these things to endear himself to people. Ahh he's just a funny lovable down to earth Chap.

    Sure I'd do stuff like that on the spot.

    Is what he tries to get followers and others to think.


  • #7253
    J Mysterio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,477 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    The press conference can be found here, in full:

    https://twitter.com/UKMoments/status/1170982380603154433


  • #7254
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,054 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    I enjoyed the classical Greek comment.

    It turned Johnson's use of the language back on himself. He is usually the one being smug with his so called 'command' of greek and latin

    It probably caused a lot of people to actually look up who Athena is/was

    Interesting day in politics


  • #7255
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,726 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    Nigel Dodds on Newsnight now, with his miserable head on. Don't mention the Irish Sea.


  • #7256
    trellheim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,213 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Boris Johnson live in parliament now

    https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/912439c0-627c-4f85-a4ba-14c533a880dd

    trying to drum up support for an early election


  • #7257
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,344 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Trying to put his finger in the dam. Loud whispers of border in the Irish Sea.


  • #7258
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,542 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    It’s as clear as glass what Boris Johnson is doing. Trying to paint him as the great savior of the country.


  • #7259
    Enzokk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    trellheim wrote: »
    Boris Johnson live in parliament now

    https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/912439c0-627c-4f85-a4ba-14c533a880dd

    trying to drum up support for an early election


    He is a clown, asking for an election that he didn't want only a week ago. That is all that needs to be said to him, why did he lie again?


  • #7260
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,542 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    What’s he doing with the mic ? It’s probably where it is because that’s the best way to hear.


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  • #7261
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,542 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    He’s actual a bloody child.


This discussion has been closed.
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