Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

Professor Moriarty · 09-09-2019 08:34PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Excellent!

And Churchill made more than a token effort to sell them out in 1940 so that should ring a few alarm bells for Arlene & Co. Was only last week i was listening to Bridgen bang on about no deal and GATT24 and all the old brexity shibboleths. Quite a shift in that space of time if true.

Here's the thing. If such a referendum were held, it would probably pass.

Headshot · 09-09-2019 08:36PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Here's the thing. If such a referendum were held, it would probably pass.

The polls in NI are very much in favour of it and why not? They are getting the best of two worlds and could transform NI

Professor Moriarty · 09-09-2019 08:36PM

Headshot wrote: »

The polls in NI are very much in favour of it and why not? They are getting the best of two worlds and could transform NI

Exactly.

Professor Moriarty · 09-09-2019 08:37PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

Blackfords tuppence

https://twitter.com/Doozy_45/status/1171137475198300166

He's right.

LeinsterDub · 09-09-2019 08:39PM

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

Who gives Royal Assent if the monarch is incapaciated (ill or gone nuts or something like that ) ?

A regent. In this case Charles

A Shropshire Lad · 09-09-2019 08:43PM

Didnt know Ringo Starr was a Brexiteer

John would not approve

LeinsterDub · 09-09-2019 08:45PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Possibly interesting....

https://twitter.com/DecLawn/status/1171099647655460864

That certainly isn't going to happen in less than 52 days.

Dyr · 09-09-2019 08:45PM

The whole front bench not applauding the speaker is very bad form but also very strange...you wonder if they knew it was coming and cabinet had made a decision to send out some night watchmen to bat (or sit) or were they caught on the hop by his announcement.

WomanSkirtFan8 · 09-09-2019 08:46PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Nice quote from Edward Carson in 1921:

"What a fool I was. I was only a puppet and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland in the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into power."

beautiful and very accurate too.

Charles Babbage · 09-09-2019 08:47PM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

That certainly isn't going to happen in less than 52 days.

No reason why not.
Recall parliament, they would probably vote for this proposal.

Imreoir2 · 09-09-2019 08:49PM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

That certainly isn't going to happen in less than 52 days.

Of course not, but an extension is UK law at this point. Can't see any way Brexit happens at the end of October so there should be plenty of time for NI to give itself the Backstop as a Christmas presant if the UK government want to take that escape route from their hopelessly contradictory stance on Brexit.

Professor Moriarty · 09-09-2019 08:50PM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

That certainly isn't going to happen in less than 52 days.

No, but if Johnson went to the EU and asked for an extension based on accepting the WA after a positive NI backstop referendum, then the EU would probably grant it. If the ERG are happy to dump the DUP then their glove puppet will be equally happy to dump the DUP.

WomanSkirtFan8 · 09-09-2019 08:52PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Here's the thing. If such a referendum were held, it would probably pass.

Absolutely and it'd probably pass with quite a over whelming majority too.:)

ElectronVolt · 09-09-2019 08:53PM

WomanSkirtFan8 wrote: »

Absolutely and it'd probably pass with quite a over whelming majority too.:)

Unless Stormont manages to reassemble, I don't really see who'd be calling it though.

Professor Moriarty · 09-09-2019 08:54PM

WomanSkirtFan8 wrote: »

Absolutely and it'd probably pass with quite a over whelming majority too.:)

58% would vote in favour of remaining aligned with the EU and having a border down the Irish sea.

ElectronVolt · 09-09-2019 08:55PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

58% would vote in favour of remaining aligned with the EU and having a border down the Irish sea.

I'd have no doubt it would pass by a big margin, but it's just how would the process of actually arranging such a referendum in this kind of time remaining even happen?

It would need to be called today.

Joe_ Public · 09-09-2019 08:56PM

ElectronVolt wrote: »

Unless Stormont manages to reassemble, I don't really see who'd be calling it though.

As johnson says, where there's a will there's a way....

As for the issue with time, i wonder is there a chance the EU, assuming they're au fait with an extension, will insist on a longer period than january and so bringing the possibility of a referendum, not just in NI, into the picture.

Professor Moriarty · 09-09-2019 08:57PM

ElectronVolt wrote: »

I'd have no doubt it would pass by a big margin, but it's just how would the process of actually arranging such a referendum in this kind of time remaining even happen?

It would need to be called today.

Well, very recently, the Tories have been making noises about reintroducing direct rule...

bazermc · 09-09-2019 09:01PM

Well at least JRM is sitting upright this time

Itssoeasy · 09-09-2019 09:02PM

A Shropshire Lad wrote: »

Who gives Royal Assent if the monarch is incapaciated (ill or gone nuts or something like that ) ?

The privy council ? That's a guess. If the sitting monarch is out action from reading history, it's either the heir to the throne.

Itssoeasy · 09-09-2019 09:05PM

ElectronVolt wrote: »

WomanSkirtFan8 wrote: »

Absolutely and it'd probably pass with quite a over whelming majority too.:)

Unless Stormont manages to reassemble, I don't really see who'd be calling it though.

The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland I presume ?

josip · 09-09-2019 09:09PM

As someone earlier posted, they quite possibly already know what it is they want from the disclosure and release request.
And they may already have someone on the inside who wants to release it but may be unable to do so for fear of prosecution or the Official Secrets Act.
This is a way to legitimise obtaining the information.
Could be a slam dunk.

ath262 · 09-09-2019 09:16PM

dream team upcoming the the EU Trade Commission - Tony Connelly understands that big Phil will be confirmed as EU's chief trade negotiator... He will be assisted by the secretary general of DG Trade by Sabine Weyand, one of the leading negotiators in Michel Barnier's Brexit Task Force

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1171148606964994049

fash · 09-09-2019 09:19PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

Precisely. But - I suppose - if something were to later be revealed which had been suppressed now, that would be damaging. So they have to make that calculation. Nonetheless, I expect they will/ would try to suppress anything and everything.

Apparently aim is for the documents already prepared for disclosure as part of the recent Scottish case but which could not be provided finally as nobody could sign witness statement without facing jail. As documents prepped for that purpose, they are in the hands of lawyers already, so must be handed over on pain of expulsion of the lawyer from the profession. So no way not to provide. According to David Allen Green anyway...

Infini · 09-09-2019 09:20PM

ath262 wrote: »

dream team upcoming the the EU Trade Commission - Tony Connelly understands that big Phil will be confirmed as EU's chief trade negotiator... He will be assisted by the secretary general of DG Trade by Sabine Weyand, one of the leading negotiators in Michel Barnier's Brexit Task Force

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1171148606964994049

I get the feeling they're gonna put out the big guns to utterly destroy them so long as the tories are anywhere near the wheel. "Negotiations" will likely end up somewhere between "we came here to laugh at you" and "You'll get nothing and like it" at least until this bunch of chancers is finally dislodged and people with actual integrity and more importantly credibility and trust takes the wheel at the UK to negotiate properly.

Professor Moriarty · 09-09-2019 09:24PM

As an aside, Varadkar's reference to Ireland being Johnson's Athena was very clever. There are a number of parallels. Firstly, in Greek mythology, Athena was the goddess who knocked Hercules out when he went mad, killed his own children and was about to kill his father. So Ireland/Athena is restraining an insane Johnson/Hercules. Secondly, Athena was sometimes known as the goddess of democracy. So Ireland/Athena represents democracy versus a violent Johnson/Hercules. Thirdly, Athena was also Hercules' half-sister which symbolises the historic ties between Ireland and the UK.

Itssoeasy · 09-09-2019 09:31PM

ath262 wrote: »

dream team upcoming the the EU Trade Commission - Tony Connelly understands that big Phil will be confirmed as EU's chief trade negotiator... He will be assisted by the secretary general of DG Trade by Sabine Weyand, one of the leading negotiators in Michel Barnier's Brexit Task Force

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1171148606964994049

Oh the uk negotiators are in for an awakening. I've never met him but I know people who have and are friends with him.

Spanish Eyes · 09-09-2019 09:33PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

As an aside, Varadkar's reference to Ireland being Johnson's Athena was very clever. There are a number of parallels. Firstly, in Greek mythology, Athena was the goddess who knocked Hercules out when he went mad, killed his own children and was about to kill his father. So Ireland/Athena is restraining an insane Johnson/Hercules. Secondly, Athena was sometimes known as the goddess of democracy. So Ireland/Athena represents democracy versus a violent Johnson/Hercules. Thirdly, Athena was also Hercules' half-sister which symbolises the historic ties between Ireland and the UK.

Carefully crafted words towards a scholar in these matters :P

An Ciarraioch · 09-09-2019 09:36PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Carefully crafted words towards a scholar in these matters :P

Apparently, his speechwriter is Patrick Geoghegan, of Talking History fame.

volchitsa · 09-09-2019 09:37PM

ath262 wrote: »

dream team upcoming the the EU Trade Commission - Tony Connelly understands that big Phil will be confirmed as EU's chief trade negotiator... He will be assisted by the secretary general of DG Trade by Sabine Weyand, one of the leading negotiators in Michel Barnier's Brexit Task Force

https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1171148606964994049

This delights me.

Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

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