Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

ElectronVolt · 06-09-2019 03:27PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

Wait, was this a thing?

He said the "people are British and the cattle are Irish" which caused a bit of Twitter outrage, but I suspect it's more of an opening to a NI only backstop.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/paisleys-irish-cows-quip-may-be-beginnings-of-a-solution-to-backstop-issue-pm-suggests-38471943.html

06-09-2019 03:30PM

Sounds fine to me. Did people reverse the nouns and get mad?

J Mysterio · 06-09-2019 03:34PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

Check out the Conservatives official Twitter. It's like the Sun/ Daily Mail/ etc. mixed up with UKIP and Brexit party feed and spewed out.

https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1169934208778874885

Pathetic

Hard to believe, but they are still pursuing this and have now doubled down on it with actual materials they have paid for an distributed.

https://twitter.com/jrmaidment/status/1169972280736321537

Jesus wept. It's all a big joke. KFC should sue.

ath262 · 06-09-2019 03:36PM

Hermy wrote: »

A.....
And secondly, what is meant by a level playing field in the context of Brexit?

I believe that their attempt to back out of commitments in the Political Declaration to the environment, employment law and social policy.

see the section after first sub-header in this article in the Guardian - Beyond the backstop: how Johnson wants to change Brexit deal

Strazdas · 06-09-2019 03:43PM

Hermy wrote: »

As Brexit chunters on to who knows where I continue to read this thread with interest and I'm grateful to the many contributors for providing so much informed comment and many useful links for further reading. However, I'd be grateful to ye for your input on two minor matters that seem to have passed me by.

Firstly, how has the wonderful Speaker Bercow managed to hold onto his seat this long, given the thorn he's been in the side of the Tory government? I take it there is no convenient mechanism that would allow a government not disposed to him to remove him from office.

And secondly, what is meant by a level playing field in the context of Brexit?

Level playing field means the UK having to abide by the same rules, regulations and standards as the Single Market (even if it is not a member). However, what Johnson wants to do is set the UK up as a competitor to the SM, free to go for whatever rules he likes and to sign trade deals with whomever he likes.

Royale with Cheese · 06-09-2019 03:45PM

That JFC thing is the single most pathetic thing I've seen in politics.

El Weirdo · 06-09-2019 03:45PM

ElectronVolt wrote: »

He said the "people are British and the cattle are Irish" which caused a bit of Twitter outrage, but I suspect it's more of an opening to a NI only backstop.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/paisleys-irish-cows-quip-may-be-beginnings-of-a-solution-to-backstop-issue-pm-suggests-38471943.html

I heard the quote, and I remember the original quote from Paisley. I just can't imagine how it caused outrage, twitter-based or otherwise.

J Mysterio · 06-09-2019 03:46PM

Hermy wrote: »

As Brexit chunters on to who knows where I continue to read this thread with interest and I'm grateful to the many contributors for providing so much informed comment and many useful links for further reading. However, I'd be grateful to ye for your input on two minor matters that seem to have passed me by.

Firstly, how has the wonderful Speaker Bercow managed to hold onto his seat this long, given the thorn he's been in the side of the Tory government? I take it there is no convenient mechanism that would allow a government not disposed to him to remove him from office.

And secondly, what is meant by a level playing field in the context of Brexit?

My understanding is that by 'level playing field' they mean that both economies would continue to follow the same standards for goods they produce and import. If one side reduces or lowers these standards, they might have a competitive advantage for their economy, but citizens and society then suffer in what is then a 'unlevel playing field' and a potential raise to the bottom vis a vis regulation and standards.

ElectronVolt · 06-09-2019 03:46PM

El Weirdo wrote: »

I heard the quote, and I remember the original quote from Paisley. I just can't imagine how it caused outrage, twitter-based or otherwise.

Various people took it as a reference to calling Irish people cattle and were triggered. Quite a lot of Irish Americans in particular took it that way.

Zubeneschamali · 06-09-2019 03:58PM

is_that_so wrote: »

This will be in place and any talks and support required addressed long before the UK do.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0906/1074298-eu-border-checks/

It's pretty clear that they are doing what folks predicted in this group - nothing at all on day one, then draw up a plan, then think about how to implement the plan, then apply to the EU for help with the plan...

What's that you say? The UK are back and have agreed to the backstop before we implemented the plan? Grand so.

ath262 · 06-09-2019 04:03PM

The delay bill has now been passed by the Lords..

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1169987583864180737

10000maniacs · 06-09-2019 04:09PM

J Mysterio wrote: »

Hard to believe, but they are still pursuing this and have now doubled down on it with actual materials they have paid for an distributed.

https://twitter.com/jrmaidment/status/1169972280736321537

Jesus wept. It's all a big joke. KFC should sue.

That inept twitter joke thing is so 2016.

Itssoeasy · 06-09-2019 04:13PM

ElectronVolt wrote: »

El Weirdo wrote: »

I heard the quote, and I remember the original quote from Paisley. I just can't imagine how it caused outrage, twitter-based or otherwise.

Various people took it as a reference to calling Irish people cattle and were triggered. Quite a lot of Irish Americans in particular took it that way.

But it's clear as day what he was actually saying. Are some people that dumb that they take everything as a slight ?

Seth Brundle · 06-09-2019 04:16PM

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

That JFC thing is the single most pathetic thing I've seen in politics.

...and there's more...
https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1169928730652733440

However, there's a nice retort...
https://twitter.com/euromove/status/1169980100709949447

ElectronVolt · 06-09-2019 04:26PM

You'd really have to wonder about what's going on over there. That's utterly pathetic and I can guarantee you that they'll all have a good laugh about it on various political discussion programmes as if there's nothing at all weird about it.

The standards just keep slipping.

Irish Praetorian · 06-09-2019 04:27PM

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

That JFC thing is the single most pathetic thing I've seen in politics.

And I've a sneaking suspicion that chicken has been grilled not friend. Metaphor for Brexit I suppose, spend the whole time promising a nice deep friend drumstick, end up with a lukewarm breast barely coated in oil let alone flour.

Excuse me I need to go get dinner.

listermint · 06-09-2019 04:28PM

ElectronVolt wrote: »

You'd really have to wonder about what's going on over there. That's utterly pathetic and I can guarantee you that they'll all have a good laugh about it on various political discussion programmes as if there's nothing at all weird about it.

The standards just keep slipping.

This is all the cummings faceless facebook winning the war on social media strategy . Politics is all in the cloud now. (according to him)

WomanSkirtFan8 · 06-09-2019 04:29PM

ElectronVolt wrote: »

Of course not in the real world sense, but politically they most definitely would be. They've some ridiculous notion that the Tories actually have some kind of fondness for them or loyalty towards them as a partner.

Indeed. They just don't seem to understand that the British government gave up on NI over 25 years ago around 1992 when. The then SOS for NI, Peter Brooke said that the UK had "no selfish, strategic or self interest in NI" or something to that effect.

ElectronVolt · 06-09-2019 04:32PM

listermint wrote: »

This is all the cummings faceless facebook winning the war on social media strategy . Politics is all in the cloud now. (according to him)

It might well be, but the rest of the political system in the UK needs to hold onto whatever shreds of dignity they have left. All this is doing is driving "oh they're all the same", disillusionment and the general debasing of politics.

If you treat it like a big joke, that's precisely what it will become.

mcmoustache · 06-09-2019 04:35PM

ElectronVolt wrote: »

You'd really have to wonder about what's going on over there. That's utterly pathetic and I can guarantee you that they'll all have a good laugh about it on various political discussion programmes as if there's nothing at all weird about it.

The standards just keep slipping.

They're addressing a certain demographic that values unrealistic promises and trolling above facts and reality.

Zubeneschamali · 06-09-2019 04:36PM

ElectronVolt wrote: »

If you treat it like a big joke, that's precisely what it will become.

Oh, I hope the Tories think they are very, very funny and keep this up.

Ordinary voters are exasperated at them already for burning 3 years on Brexit, neglecting education, welfare and services for their decade-long austerity campaign, and now they think an election is a joke?

Plays right into the hands of Labour who will launch a campaign which is not a joke and not all about Brexit.

ElectronVolt · 06-09-2019 04:38PM

mcmoustache wrote: »

They're addressing a certain demographic that values unrealistic promises and trolling above facts and reality.

I know that but the fact that the political commentators and, more importantly, the sane element of the political parties on all sides, seem to just not be attempting to pull standards back up again.

It's just shocking to see that they seem to place no value on their political system or its centuries of tradition. A stupid pun is all it takes and a bit of coverage in the tabloids. It's a somewhat pathetic sight to see the UK plumbing these depths. They're letting stupid win.

lawred2 · 06-09-2019 04:42PM

ElectronVolt wrote: »

I know that but the fact that the political commentators and, more importantly, the sane element of the political parties on all sides, seem to just not be attempting to pull standards back up again.

It's just shocking to see that they seem to place no value on their political system or its centuries of tradition. A stupid pun is all it takes and a bit of coverage in the tabloids. It's a somewhat pathetic sight to see the UK plumbing these depths. They're letting stupid win.

where are you getting that from?

Surely that's exactly what they are doing. I don't see this behaviour from anyone but Cummings and his band of supine Tories! How would you like people who are clearly not engaging in this type of politics to "pull standards back up again"?

Surely countering this puerile crap with facts, detail, pragmatism and policy (which is what they are doing) is exactly what they should be doing!?

robinph · 06-09-2019 04:42PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

That JFC thing is the single most pathetic thing I've seen in politics.

...and there's more...
https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1169928730652733440

However, there's a nice retort...
https://twitter.com/euromove/status/1169980100709949447

The KFC twitter handler has basically just told them to F off. Really hope they get a trademark infringement letter from KFC next.

PropJoe10 · 06-09-2019 04:52PM

That JFC thing is absolutely pathetic. I hope KFC sues them for breach of copyright.

Ken Clarke for Prime Minister.

ToBeFrank123 · 06-09-2019 04:57PM

I wonder what chances May's WA deal would have of passing the HoC now? Or any deal for that matter. Its difficult to get a deal that pleases a majority in the HoC.

spacecoyote · 06-09-2019 04:58PM

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Ken Clarke for Prime Minister.

Just in relation to this. There is talk that they could have a VONC and the opposition to form a temporary government.

Does the leader of the largest party in the coalition automatically become acting PM?

Or could they nominate that the Father of the House be acting PM?

ElectronVolt · 06-09-2019 05:00PM

lawred2 wrote: »

where are you getting that from?

Surely that's exactly what they are doing. I don't see this behaviour from anyone but Cummings and his band of supine Tories! How would you like people who are clearly not engaging in this type of politics to "pull standards back up again"?

Surely countering this puerile crap with facts, detail, pragmatism and policy (which is what they are doing) is exactly what they should be doing!?

By roundly and very publicly condemning it and calling for sanity. If you don't want to have politics go down the toilet, you have to stop feeding the the trolls. The voices against this are there but they're not nearly loud enough or numerous enough. You've vicious and pathetic negative campaigning being made acceptable and the tabloids tolls keep getting thrown crumbs and it's not just the far right of the Tories that does that.

The current lot are off the scale but it's nothing particular new. it's just more extreme than usual.

Panrich · 06-09-2019 05:00PM

spacecoyote wrote: »

Just in relation to this. There is talk that they could have a VONC and the opposition to form a temporary government.

Does the leader of the largest party in the coalition automatically become acting PM?

Or could they nominate that the Father of the House be acting PM?

Might be easier for Labour to accept now that he's no longer a conservative MP.

lawred2 · 06-09-2019 05:02PM

ElectronVolt wrote: »

By roundly and very publicly condemning it and calling for sanity. If you don't want to have politics go down the toilet, you have to stop feeding the the trolls. The voices against this are there but they're not nearly loud enough or numerous enough. You've vicious and pathetic negative campaigning being made acceptable and the tabloids tolls keep getting thrown crumbs and it's not just the far right of the Tories that does that.

The current lot are off the scale but it's nothing particular new. it's just more extreme than usual.

I don't think engaging in public slanging matches has ever worked.

Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

Comments