Opel Zafira started the car park fire in Cork

GSBellew · 05-09-2019 12:39AM

Needles73 wrote: »

I said it’s not great but probably ok. Its not how I would do it. I’ve studied engineering and done plenty of lift plans. But thanks for talking down to me.

That's not exactly what you said though is it?

There is plenty wrong with it, the forces are completely different to anything that will ever be exerted on the components during ordinary design use.

You say you've studied engineering, yet you state that the forces would be no worse than those exerted on a bad road, yet they are completely different.

I do apologise for talking down to you though.

punisher5112 · 05-09-2019 12:41AM

road_high wrote: »

Don’t mean to be blunt but what kind of a thick bitch rocks up to a multi storey car park with smoke or flames billowing out (enough for bystanders to notice it and film it) and drives in? There’s an awful lack of self awareness and paying attention with some motorists

I've missed this, any clips?

GSBellew · 05-09-2019 12:50AM

samih wrote: »

If you think about a 225/45-17 tyre + wheel combination spinning at 1667 rpm when driving at 200 km/h you'll find that the spokes of the wheel are actually designed also for "elongation". The centrifugal force at the wheel (not tyre) lip is about 65000 N (acceleration is approx. 6 70 G) if we say that the wheel weighs at 10 kg and most of the weight is at the outer edge. If the tyre weighs the same 10 kg this increases the load by another 100000 N.

Most of the load is probably contained by the tyre itself but it's wrong to say that wheels never see substantial non-compression loads.

Lifting at one point is a static load on the rim edge, in your example this load is being continually distributed across the whole of the wheel rim.

Phileas Frog · 05-09-2019 07:54AM

road_high wrote: »

Don’t mean to be blunt but what kind of a thick bitch rocks up to a multi storey car park with smoke or flames billowing out (enough for bystanders to notice it and film it) and drives in? There’s an awful lack of self awareness and paying attention with some motorists

This is only a rumour... There's no eye witness and no film, in public anyway

Old diesel · 05-09-2019 09:17AM

listermint wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not fro free though (now I would get it done) but my time is not free (in fact I know exactly what I charge by the hour, for work).
My last recall work was as such, car was collected from my place of work, Rental company was sent to bring me to their close office, where I was given a car (1.5 hour lost).

And I still felt annoyed (after a few days) having to leave work early to go collect my car and leave the rental at the dealer. Because I had to leave work early and lost 2 billable hours worth of income.

That "Free" work cost me money of almost half a day's work.

Now you say, do it on a Saturday.
That time is not where I earn money but is where I spend the only real quality time, with my family. Between commute and school I get about 2 hours a night with my kids. Saturday is where I get to make up for that. So again, that time is far from free, to me either.

So, of course I would get the recall work done (and have on my own car, not an Opel) but the car companies should be providing a pick/drop service for these.

Anyone who puts a cost on their families safety is an idiot.

Plain and simple, and anyone who thinks being their own weekend time on any particular weekend day is more important than addressing an extremely serious fault with their vehicle that they ferry the family around in is an idiot.

Making excuses for this sort of behaviour is absolutely head spinning.

In fairness Cork Exile DID get his car sorted .

But regarding the "idiots" - they are everywhere .

It's not just car recalls either but it's things like driving hard to try and save a few minutes .

Modern living seems to impose time constraints and people just don't think about how to respond to this .

Time pressure causes a lot of accidents - especially in things like farming.

The fact someone can't get time off to get a safety issue on their car fixed is as much a reflection on their workplace culture as it is on Opels muppetry .

I'm sorry but if you can't find a few hours until January to fix a fault on your car then you really have to wonder if how you work right now is long term sustainable .

H3llR4iser · 05-09-2019 11:31AM

GSBellew wrote: »

That's not exactly what you said though is it?

There is plenty wrong with it, the forces are completely different to anything that will ever be exerted on the components during ordinary design use.

You say you've studied engineering, yet you state that the forces would be no worse than those exerted on a bad road, yet they are completely different.

I do apologise for talking down to you though.

There's just no way - these cars and rims will NOT get terminally damaged by that lifting techniques; The materials and constructions are way, way, way sturdier than most people think. A "cracked alloy" that won't survive that lifting would have been destroyed while driving already, even at "legal" 120km/h, there's a 221G centrifugal load applied to a 17" rim, plus all the forces coming from the weight of the car, load transfer, lateral loads, variable loads due to road surface and whatnot. Tires, suspensions and rims take a continuous hellish beating while driving around. People freaking out about the "lifting technique" are simply overreacting.

Also, think about it for a second - using the "under the wheel" system would add a considerable amount of time and cost to the operation - tightening these straps around the wheels is the best balance between time, cost and security.

The one question I have is...how are they going to do it with cars that don't have enough space in the rims? Say, something on steelies, or the inevitable car with a spacesaver wheel mounted (it is Cork, afterall

).

Finally, "lifting technique" would be the least of my worries, most of these cars have been subjected to toxic smoke and temperatures that were well past their specs...at the very least, the smell of smoke will be nearly impossible to remove from the interiors, others will face hefty repair bills as many of the gaskets/seals/rubbers might be in need of replacement.

zilog_jones · 05-09-2019 11:50AM

As I said, they already started using under-wheel carrier things as of yesterday.

All the cars I've seen so far looked fine. Didn't even look dirty. But I don't know how far they've gone in as they were starting from the west end - the source of the fire was maybe slightly east of the centre of the car park.

dmcsweeney · 05-09-2019 12:03PM

Abba987 wrote: »

God people are so snotty on here. Did i say i wasnt getting it done. Did the other poster ? Im calling out the attitude like its my fault and not opels. There is absolutely no leniency on appointments and I dont know where 20 minutes came from cos the dealers are saying a number of hours.

Why do people have to be so horrible to other posters.
Its a discussion forum. Real people behind these posts. Real people worrying.
These keyboard warriors wouldnt dare speak to people like that in real life

Like I said in my other posts, my car was recalled (not an Opel), and I prioritised getting it done despite the inconvenience. I didn't set out to to be horrible to anyone, and I apologies for what it's worth, I did go a bit too far with my comments out of frustration. This is a serious issue, and I for one would not take the risk, especially with children in a car, in not getting it done asap. We all have busy lives, but when it comes to something like this, people just need to get it done. I'll disregard the personal comments above, but let me be clear, when it comes to safety I have no problem telling anyone to their face, as it should be.

road_high · 05-09-2019 12:04PM

Is there firm confirmation it was another Opel Zafira? If so must be another huge blow to Opels repuation which is already in the toilet. But their own fault for not addressing this and other options.

punisher5112 · 05-09-2019 12:08PM

road_high wrote: »

Is there firm confirmation it was another Opel Zafira? If so must be another huge blow to Opels repuation which is already in the toilet. But their own fault for not addressing this and other options.

That was under GM it's now owned by Peugeot

FishOnABike · 05-09-2019 12:10PM

zilog_jones wrote: »

As I said, they already started using under-wheel carrier things as of yesterday.

All the cars I've seen so far looked fine. Didn't even look dirty. But I don't know how far they've gone in as they were starting from the west end - the source of the fire was maybe slightly east of the centre of the car park.

I'd guess they started with removing the cars on the roof and furthest away from the fire first . With three floors between the roof and the fire, these cars could have been well insulated against any damage - a double glass door is enough to allow an oven door to be cool enough to touch.

I'd say as time goes on and they get around to removing cars that were closer to the fire there will be more damage.

Dia_Anseo · 05-09-2019 12:13PM

Abba987 wrote: »

God people are so snotty on here. Did i say i wasnt getting it done. Did the other poster ? Im calling out the attitude like its my fault and not opels. There is absolutely no leniency on appointments and I dont know where 20 minutes came from cos the dealers are saying a number of hours.

Why do people have to be so horrible to other posters.
Its a discussion forum. Real people behind these posts. Real people worrying.
These keyboard warriors wouldnt dare speak to people like that in real life

I agree with you completely about the horrible posters on here.
I've noticed that there's a mob mentality on here with a certain group of posters, like school girl bullies. What's worse is that certain moderators are in cahoots with these "school girl" bullies! Least we say anything they will punish and bully us further!

It;s a shame really as Boards.ie could be such a lovely place!

And it's not that womans fault with the Opel Zafira that practically burnt down Douglas shopping centre and could have killed 100's of people, I'm sure she was too busy in the hairdressers or whatever to get the recall done!
And

Toyotafanboi · 05-09-2019 12:24PM

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

I agree with you completely about the horrible posters on here.
I've noticed that there's a mob mentality on here with a certain group of posters, like school girl bullies. What's worse is that certain moderators are in cahoots with these "school girl" bullies! Least we say anything they will punish and bully us further!

What on earth are you talking about?

It's very simple, if you have an issue with a post regarding bullying or anything else, report it and mods will check it out.

If you have an issue with a mod, contact them, or any of us, there is no collusion, it's very transparent.

Dont detail this thread. If you want to take this any further PM myself of any of the mods.

zilog_jones · 05-09-2019 12:34PM

FishOnABike wrote: »

I'd guess they started with removing the cars on the roof and furthest away from the fire first . With three floors between the roof and the fire, these cars could have been well insulated against any damage...

There's only one floor between the roof and fire, the car park only has three levels (no ground floor parking). Level 2 above the fire is critically damaged.

The south west side is ideal for the crane as there is a wide open access road to a loading bay running along the south of the car park, and part of level 1 is exposed around the sides. You can see a satellite view here: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8771009,-8.4381549,247m/data=!3m1!1e3

That is an exposed section of level 1 over where Maxi Zoo is located. There are ramps on the west side (normally for going up) that are probably undamaged. They are currently retrieving cars from this spot, but could be moving cars from other levels there - a tow truck was lifted into the car park on Monday.

TheChizler · 05-09-2019 12:53PM

zilog_jones wrote: »

and part of level 2 is exposed around the sides. You can see a satellite view here: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8771009,-8.4381549,247m/data=!3m1!1e3

That is an exposed section of level 2 over where Maxi Zoo is located.

Tiny correction. That's level 1.

zilog_jones · 05-09-2019 02:27PM

Oh yeah, you're right.

05-09-2019 03:18PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

At this stage you should have received at least 3 letters regarding this recall so either your car isn't affected or your contact details are incorrect.If its a UK import it HAS to be traced with the VIN and not the reg number.
Id be calling your dealer with the VIN and asking if your car is affected and checking what contact details are on file for you.

If they are UK imports they would most likely be Vauxhalls?

zilog_jones · 05-09-2019 04:11PM

9935452 wrote: »

If they are UK imports they would most likely be Vauxhalls?

They will definitely be Vauxhalls, but it doesn't matter. Opel Ireland should have access to the VINs, they have the ability to find every Vauxhall registered in Ireland, and they do perform recalls on them.

Philb76 · 05-09-2019 04:31PM

zilog_jones wrote: »

They will definitely be Vauxhalls, but it doesn't matter. Opel Ireland should have access to the VINs, they have the ability to find every Vauxhall registered in Ireland, and they do perform recalls on them.

Exactly just like vw knew every vag car that was imported that had to get the emissions fix the zafira issue was also on the bbc watchdog programme just like the bmw timing chain as I watched it but Vauxhall weren't in any hurry to do something about it

road_high · 06-09-2019 11:30PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

That was under GM it's now owned by Peugeot

May well be but it’s very much Peugeot’s problem now as they try rebuild Opel’s reputation and get buyers to spend money on their products. Lingering stuff like this must be very damaging to sales and residuals. Reminds me of the US Ford Pinto debacle

Dia_Anseo · 09-09-2019 11:00PM

Only 28 undamaged cars were taken from the shopping cebtre, the rest are damaged!

The Cush · 09-09-2019 11:55PM

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

Only 28 undamaged cars were taken from the shopping cebtre, the rest are damaged!

That's not correct, 28 undamaged cars were removed over the weekend, almost 130 removed in total with 6 more remaining. 61 completely or partially damaged (50 completely burnt out).

six vehicles have yet to be retrieved. Three are located on the carpark roof above the demolition zone, and three are located on level one, between the access ramps but far enough from the seat of the fire to remain undamaged.

tcawley29 · 10-09-2019 05:26PM

What exactly happens here if the 30 million limit is hit?

Surely Liberty cannot just walk away from the remaining claims. Hardly fair on the owner.

Does an owner lose their NCB for a fire claim?

Truckermal · 10-09-2019 07:06PM

The Cush wrote: »

That's not correct, 28 undamaged cars were removed over the weekend, almost 130 removed in total with 6 more remaining. 61 completely or partially damaged (50 completely burnt out).

How come they are still there even up to now?

The Satanist · 10-09-2019 08:17PM

tcawley29 wrote: »

What exactly happens here if the 30 million limit is hit?

Surely Liberty cannot just walk away from the remaining claims. Hardly fair on the owner.

Does an owner lose their NCB for a fire claim?

Be kinda funny if the insurance rejected all claims cuz driving a burning car into a multi-storey car park is flippin arson like

finalfurlong · 11-09-2019 09:10AM

H3llR4iser wrote: »

There's just no way - these cars and rims will NOT get terminally damaged by that lifting techniques; The materials and constructions are way, way, way sturdier than most people think. A "cracked alloy" that won't survive that lifting would have been destroyed while driving already, even at "legal" 120km/h, there's a 221G centrifugal load applied to a 17" rim, plus all the forces coming from the weight of the car, load transfer, lateral loads, variable loads due to road surface and whatnot. Tires, suspensions and rims take a continuous hellish beating while driving around. People freaking out about the "lifting technique" are simply overreacting.

Also, think about it for a second - using the "under the wheel" system would add a considerable amount of time and cost to the operation - tightening these straps around the wheels is the best balance between time, cost and security.

The one question I have is...how are they going to do it with cars that don't have enough space in the rims? Say, something on steelies, or the inevitable car with a spacesaver wheel mounted (it is Cork, afterall ).

Finally, "lifting technique" would be the least of my worries, most of these cars have been subjected to toxic smoke and temperatures that were well past their specs...at the very least, the smell of smoke will be nearly impossible to remove from the interiors, others will face hefty repair bills as many of the gaskets/seals/rubbers might be in need of replacement.

the smoke thing is a factor certainly,Even on a smaller scale the smoke can be next to impossible to get rid of from all the different parts of interior.During the summer i went to see a Seat leon 2016 with 1 lady owner and only 18000 kms,Salesman warned me that the valet hadnt got rid fully of the smoke from interior-owner was smoker but i was knocked out by smell.He said they were going to have a special treatment done on it which involved some treatment through all the vents.I went back after this and while it was a bit better the smoke smell was strong enough.I reeckon it made the car almost unsaleable so i think the Cork cars with multiples of that level of smoke damage are certainly way down in value

zilog_jones · 11-09-2019 09:35AM

I don't think it's the same as a car that's been smoked in for years. If a car was parked (not running) near this fire with the windows closed, there wouldn't be a massive amount of smoke getting into the cabin assuming door seals are good, etc. Even if the cabin ventilation was running at the time, the outside air would be going through a filter in most modern cars.

largepants · 11-09-2019 12:58PM

The Satanist wrote: »

Be kinda funny if the insurance rejected all claims cuz driving a burning car into a multi-storey car park is flippin arson like

I don't think anyone drove a burning car in to the car park.

The Satanist · 11-09-2019 01:05PM

largepants wrote: »

The Satanist wrote: »

Be kinda funny if the insurance rejected all claims cuz driving a burning car into a multi-storey car park is flippin arson like

I don't think anyone drove a burning car in to the car park.

It was seen entering the car park moments earlier, with smoke pouring from it.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cranes-to-remove-vehicles-after-cork-car-park-fire-947708.html

There's no smoke without fire, as they say

largepants · 11-09-2019 01:19PM

The Satanist wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/cranes-to-remove-vehicles-after-cork-car-park-fire-947708.html

There's no smoke without fire, as they say

To use another proverb - Paper never refused ink.

Opel Zafira started the car park fire in Cork

Comments