Opel Zafira started the car park fire in Cork

Dia_Anseo · 03-09-2019 09:24PM

Kearys have sent out 65 free courtesy cars so far according to RedFM.

Cogans Toyota are also giving out courtesy cars, 30 to date.

It seems it's not just the written off cars then, as some people don't know if their car is damaged or not.

Fair play to these 2 Cork family owned dealerships for their kindness.

Axa/Aviva giving policy holders free rental cars for trapped cars.

return guide · 03-09-2019 09:29PM

zilog_jones wrote: »

Sprinkler systems are apparently required for underground car parks.

I have worked on many underground carparks, fire detection and alarm is all that is required in most, but it will depend on the fire safety cert issued at planning stage.

We are still coming across car parks under new apartment blocks with little or no fire detection never mind sprinkler systems.

Dia_Anseo · 03-09-2019 09:36PM

Motor assessor on RedFM specifically said that if a car beside your car catches onnfire then your car goes on fire, you have no claim on the car that started it.

You have no right to claim from somebody else.
You claim on your own insurance.

zilog_jones · 03-09-2019 09:37PM

kyote00 wrote: »

ahem.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7ffEYGNWvg

I didn't say they weren't catching fire, but it's not a significant amount compared to the average for any other type of car - people are just picking them out because they're not the normal thing. Nobody's sharing videos of the other thousands of cars catching fire in China every year.

Around 300 Zafira B's sold in the UK have caught fire, out of 235,000 sold there. I don't have the stats, but I'd think it's pretty safe to assume that a hell of a lot less than 1.3% Tesla Model S cars have caught fire. One video certainly doesn't suggest that (there's probably only around 300k Model S's sold globally so far).

Also, I don't get this shock about how the cars are being lifted - the wheels should be able to take the weight of the car, so what's the big deal?

Thargor · 03-09-2019 09:44PM

Imagine if it had been a Tesla that did this...

Cookie_Monster · 03-09-2019 09:45PM

Just looking at the pictures in the times and the level of damage done, do car parks not have to have sprinklers systems?

mikeecho · 03-09-2019 09:48PM

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

Motor assessor on RedFM specifically said that if a car beside your car catches onnfire then your car goes on fire, you have no claim on the car that started it.

You have no right to claim from somebody else.
You claim on your own insurance.

That's what I've been trying to tell people.. but oh no .. it'll have to be the zafiras insurance.

mickdw · 03-09-2019 09:51PM

McCrack wrote: »

To my untrained eye in lifting cars by crane what's the issue?

It would appear that the car is being lifted via a single wheel spoke at each wheel.
While it's probably ok, it's not correct and no one could stand over that setup. A wheel will be designed to stand up to severe loads but in a specific way. A wheel is not designed to have a prolonged pull on one spoke at an unusual angle.
The straps are then just spaced off the bodywork by some kind of packer. Possible damage from straps rubbing also.
If no damage from the straps on the body, I wouldn't have concerns of any extended damage other than wheels.

GM228 · 03-09-2019 09:53PM

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

Motor assessor on RedFM specifically said that if a car beside your car catches onnfire then your car goes on fire, you have no claim on the car that started it.

You have no right to claim from somebody else.
You claim on your own insurance.

mikeecho wrote: »

That's what I've been trying to tell people.. but oh no .. it'll have to be the zafiras insurance.

For the second time this is incorrect.

Perhaps the assessor should familiarise themself with the Motor Insurance Directive and clarification from the European Court of Justice in the Línea Directa Aseguradora, SA vs Segurcaixa, Sociedad Anónima de Seguros y Reaseguro Case C-100/18 that the insurer is liable for damage caused by a vehicle fire.

This notion of not being able to claim stems from a long held belief that a parked vehicle which catches fire is not considered to be "in use" and therefore not covered under compulsory insurance, the ECJ confirmed this is an incorrect belief.

Phileas Frog · 03-09-2019 09:57PM

mikeecho wrote: »

That's what I've been trying to tell people.. but oh no .. it'll have to be the zafiras insurance.

There's a story in the Independent that says exactly the opposite

kyote00 · 03-09-2019 09:57PM

https://www.hln.be/in-de-buurt/antwerpen/brandende-tesla-moet-nachtje-in-bad-om-vlammen-te-doven~a112edf9/?referer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&referer=https%3A%2F%2Fbgr.com%2F2019%2F06%2F03%2Ftesla-fire-model-s-supercharger-station-belgium%2F

Thargor wrote: »

Imagine if it had been a Tesla that did this...

Isambard · 03-09-2019 10:47PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If that was my car getting lifted out like that I'd prefer if was was burned to ash instead...

https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2019/0903/1073624-cork-car-park/

I think I'd be looking to replace those wheels

Dia_Anseo · 03-09-2019 10:50PM

Wonder why Johnson & Perrott Opel Douglas never offered free courtesy Opel cars?

Hellrazer · 03-09-2019 10:56PM

anheneti wrote: »

And do you collect the car from my workplace or home? Both are 90 minutes from the nearest Opel dealership
Or do Opel expect me to take annual leave, because I unfortunately have all mine used this year and can’t get another day off until January.

We collect within a 30km radius. 90 minutes each way means I loose a technician for 3 hours. Not worth it for a repair that I get 63 euros from.

However in saying that if you are in Dublin or surrounds I could do the recall for you on a Saturday morning as we open Saturdays to accommodate people that cant make it in on weekdays especially for this recall.

Abba987 wrote: »

Exactly. Its not as simple as popping in.

Likewise--you always have the option of a Saturday.

In saying that it is as simple as popping in. We do the recall while people pop next door for a coffee. Our lads have it down to less than 20 minutes now because we are doing so many of them.

Needles73 · 03-09-2019 10:59PM

mickdw wrote: »

It would appear that the car is being lifted via a single wheel spoke at each wheel.
While it's probably ok, it's not correct and no one could stand over that setup. A wheel will be designed to stand up to severe loads but in a specific way. A wheel is not designed to have a prolonged pull on one spoke at an unusual angle.
The straps are then just spaced off the bodywork by some kind of packer. Possible damage from straps rubbing also.
If no damage from the straps on the body, I wouldn't have concerns of any extended damage other than wheels.

The load on the wheel spoke is probably less than it sees in irish pot hole roads. The straps are held out with a spreader beam. I don’t think it’s great but there’s not a whole pile wrong either.

Dia_Anseo · 03-09-2019 11:14PM

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

Wonder why Johnson & Perrott Opel Douglas never offered free courtesy Opel cars?

Maybe they're worried they might be smoked in!

mikeecho · 03-09-2019 11:27PM

Phileas Frog wrote: »

mikeecho wrote: »

That's what I've been trying to tell people.. but oh no .. it'll have to be the zafiras insurance.

There's a story in the Independent that says exactly the opposite

My experience differs.

Time will tell.

zilog_jones · 03-09-2019 11:33PM

Needles73 wrote: »

The load on the wheel spoke is probably less than it sees in irish pot hole roads. The straps are held out with a spreader beam. I don’t think it’s great but there’s not a whole pile wrong either.

Yeah just think about the normal contact patch area on a tyre - it's not much more than one of those spokes. Greater forces would be applied to one wheel when driving e.g. turning at speed, braking hard, etc. due to the shift in weight. I would expect wheels to be able to take greater force than this.

Gumbo · 03-09-2019 11:36PM

return guide wrote: »

I have worked on many underground carparks, fire detection and alarm is all that is required in most, but it will depend on the fire safety cert issued at planning stage.

We are still coming across car parks under new apartment blocks with little or no fire detection never mind sprinkler systems.

Can you shed some light on those specific car parks?
I’m finding the opposite in Dublin.

Remember, open walled car parks are naturally ventilated so the idea is for the smoke to plume out the openings around the perimeter. Underground as mentioned, is different. Ventilation is still key.

And also remember, our regulations are for life safety, not property protection. So the primary means of assessing a fire cert is to get people out. The building can be rebuilt after that.

mickdw · 04-09-2019 12:10AM

zilog_jones wrote: »

Needles73 wrote: »

The load on the wheel spoke is probably less than it sees in irish pot hole roads. The straps are held out with a spreader beam. I don’t think it’s great but there’s not a whole pile wrong either.

Yeah just think about the normal contact patch area on a tyre - it's not much more than one of those spokes. Greater forces would be applied to one wheel when driving e.g. turning at speed, braking hard, etc. due to the shift in weight. I would expect wheels to be able to take greater force than this.

It's likely to be fine however it's not the type of setup that an Engineer would sign off on.
There are lifting methods that go under the tyre which in my opinion would be far more correct and imo subjecting wheels to forces in intended directions.
Of one of those cars had a cracked alloy at a spoke, a failure could easily happen.

Dia_Anseo · 04-09-2019 12:13AM

GM228 wrote: »

For the second time this is incorrect.

Perhaps the assessor should familiarise themself with the Motor Insurance Directive and clarification from the European Court of Justice in the Línea Directa Aseguradora, SA vs Segurcaixa, Sociedad Anónima de Seguros y Reaseguro Case C-100/18 that the insurer is liable for damage caused by a vehicle fire.

This notion of not being able to claim stems from a long held belief that a parked vehicle which catches fire is not considered to be "in use" and therefore not covered under compulsory insurance, the ECJ confirmed this is an incorrect belief.

Look up the Accidential Fires Act (1943), everyone must look after themselves!

Dia_Anseo · 04-09-2019 12:18AM

This is probably a better method for moving the car. But remember the method they are using is probably safer as they are moving the car from a higher position.

HD_VEHICLE%20RECOVERY.jpg

i57dwun4yb1pt8 · 04-09-2019 12:29AM

^^^^
ah where are you going with your professional way of doing things , this is caaark baiiiiiii !!!!!!!!!!

GSBellew · 04-09-2019 12:48AM

Needles73 wrote: »

The load on the wheel spoke is probably less than it sees in irish pot hole roads. The straps are held out with a spreader beam. I don’t think it’s great but there’s not a whole pile wrong either.

Taking the one component you highlighted in isolation, the load on the wheel is in the opposite direction to the direction of the normal design load, it's an elongation force, outwards on the spoke / diameter of the rim rather than the expected compressive force which the wheel is designed for.

I could try to explain it, but if you can't grasp that concept its not worth my while expanding.

Needles73 · 04-09-2019 12:56AM

GSBellew wrote: »

Taking the one component you highlighted in isolation, the load on the wheel is in the opposite direction to the direction of the normal design load, it's an elongation force, outwards on the spoke / diameter of the rim rather than the expected compressive force which the wheel is designed for.

I could try to explain it, but if you can't grasp that concept its not worth my while expanding.

I said it’s not great but probably ok. Its not how I would do it. I’ve studied engineering and done plenty of lift plans. But thanks for talking down to me.

mikeecho · 04-09-2019 02:35AM

GM228 wrote: »

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

Motor assessor on RedFM specifically said that if a car beside your car catches onnfire then your car goes on fire, you have no claim on the car that started it.

You have no right to claim from somebody else.
You claim on your own insurance.

mikeecho wrote: »

That's what I've been trying to tell people.. but oh no .. it'll have to be the zafiras insurance.

For the second time this is incorrect.

Perhaps the assessor should familiarise themself with the Motor Insurance Directive and clarification from the European Court of Justice in the Línea Directa Aseguradora, SA vs Segurcaixa, Sociedad Anónima de Seguros y Reaseguro Case C-100/18
that the insurer is liable for damage caused by a vehicle fire.

This notion of not being able to claim stems from a long held belief that a parked vehicle which catches fire is not considered to be "in use" and therefore not covered under compulsory insurance, the ECJ confirmed this is an incorrect belief.

The referring court considers, first, that if the fire occurs when the vehicle is stationary, but that fire originates in a function necessary or useful for the movement of the vehicle, that situation should be considered to be linked to the normal function of the vehicle.

I don't think the heating controls are "necessary or useful for the movement of the vehicle"

anheneti · 04-09-2019 07:36AM

Hellrazer wrote: »

We collect within a 30km radius. 90 minutes each way means I loose a technician for 3 hours. Not worth it for a repair that I get 63 euros from.

However in saying that if you are in Dublin or surrounds I could do the recall for you on a Saturday morning as we open Saturdays to accommodate people that cant make it in on weekdays especially for this recall.

Likewise--you always have the option of a Saturday.

In saying that it is as simple as popping in. We do the recall while people pop next door for a coffee. Our lads have it down to less than 20 minutes now because we are doing so many of them.

It’s not as simple as popping in, it’s almost 4 hours gone on a Saturday morning when people with kids (people who buy Zafiras) are probably at their busiest..
If it’s as simple as you say, why not offer the service on Sundays when families can actually waste their day?

Abba987 · 04-09-2019 07:57AM

anheneti wrote: »

It’s not as simple as popping in, it’s almost 4 hours gone on a Saturday morning when people with kids (people who buy Zafiras) are probably at their busiest..
If it’s as simple as you say, why not offer the service on Sundays when families can actually waste their day?

Yup. I cant just pop in on a Saturday either.

colm_mcm · 04-09-2019 07:59AM

The recall is there long enough, I’m amazed at some owners attitude towards this.

bucketybuck · 04-09-2019 08:27AM

colm_mcm wrote: »

The recall is there long enough, I’m amazed at some owners attitude towards this.

Its self important nonsense. God forbid their busy schedules ever get interrupted. :rolleyes:

Opel Zafira started the car park fire in Cork

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