Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

03-09-2019 10:35PM

awec wrote: »

Johnson's legs have been taken from under him. He's a lame duck.

A Prime Minister who has lost his authority straight out the gate. This will have long term ramifications for him, even if the tories do win an eventual election.

"Friends come and go but enemies accumulate"

Boris is learning the hard way.

Leroy42 · 03-09-2019 10:35PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Surprised no one is asking how will the EU respond to no deal being taken off the table?

Will their stance harden?

Remember Boris is in Dublin on Monday...

The EU stance has been the same since Day 1. If anything they have given ground to the UK on things like the UK wide backstop.

On what basis do you think they will change tack now? Johnsons bluff about No Deal was never a real threat. Sure the EU didn't want it, but the price to avoid it was simply too much and as such they relied on the knowledge that it was a far worse prospect to the UK than the EU.

The EU, I believe, will be nothing less that fair and understanding. No need to dance on the grave. Simply say they are open to passing the WA when the UK are ready

is_that_so · 03-09-2019 10:35PM

Pheonix10 wrote: »

What does tonight mean overall? Any chance of a Brexit extension or referendum not to leave?

It just means that they can debate and vote on the legislation to prevent a NO Deal over the next few days. Then there'll be an election!

Spanish Eyes · 03-09-2019 10:35PM

I doubt the Tories are finished, and I doubt Labour is either.

Boils down to a buffoon, a liar and a cad, or a communist and an alottment lover. Take your pick now.

What a time to be alive and a voter in UK.

Imreoir2 · 03-09-2019 10:35PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

It has ramifications for every future Prime Minister.

This is a massive precedent.

If Parliament doesn't like something Comrade Jezz cooks up 2 years from now, they can compel Corbyn to accept a decision they or any supra-national body decide, on any matter whatsoever.

Yeah, Parliament is supposed to be soverign. If the PM can't get a majority in parliament for their policies they should not be able to go ahead with their policies anyway.

martingriff · 03-09-2019 10:36PM

Boris might get the the record for Shortest reign as the British Prime Minister could see Mogg try to stab him in the back

Infini · 03-09-2019 10:36PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

It hasn't been taken off the table. They voted to have a vote tomorrow. If they vote tomorrow then that will be off the table.

Truthfully no deal is only off the table if they accept the WA as is or abandon this with an A50 withdrawal. Truth is no deal is a live if not the final failure option until something overwrites this with absolute certainty.

Leroy42 · 03-09-2019 10:37PM

InTheShadows wrote: »

The people of the UK aren't ever putting a charlatan like Corbyn into number 10. Today is a marvelous day for the people who voted to leave the EU.

Ah ok, I think I get you now. People voted to leave the EU so that the HoC could vote against a No Deal and the new PM would have to potentially opt to ignore the law of the land in order to get his version of their vote.

Seems very deep to me. Especially since many BRexiteers cannot even name a single law they want changed but have thought through the 4D chess game over 3 years!

InTheShadows · 03-09-2019 10:37PM

Pheonix10 wrote: »

What does tonight mean overall? Any chance of a Brexit extension or referendum not to leave?

No chance. The UK are leaving the EU in a few weeks. The remoaners have been led on a merry dance

gmisk · 03-09-2019 10:37PM

Mark Garnier (con) the gist of what he was was saying....I will give BJ the benefit of the doubt...let's see what he is going to come up with.

Not a ringing endorsement.

Kermit.de.frog · 03-09-2019 10:37PM

Leadsom saying rebels will NOT lose whip tonight and will have second chance tomorrow.

Looks like it will be a closer run thing tomorrow.

declanflynn · 03-09-2019 10:38PM

InTheShadows wrote: »

The people of the UK aren't ever putting a charlatan like Corbyn into number 10. Today is a marvelous day for the people who voted to leave the EU.

Ye just lost mate, ye just couldn't do it, pay your fee every year and stay in the club old chap

RickBlaine · 03-09-2019 10:38PM

Copied straight from Twitter (David Allen Green) and it hits the nail on the head:

"Remember if it had not been for Johnson and Cummings "genius" prorogation then this vote would not have been held and lost and we would be on steady course for a likely No Deal Brexit

Huge political blunder

What happens when people think they are cleverer than they actually are"

LeinsterDub · 03-09-2019 10:38PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

It has ramifications for every future Prime Minister.

This is a massive precedent.

If Parliament doesn't like something Comrade Jezz cooks up 2 years from now, they can compel Corbyn to accept a decision they or any supra-national body decide, on any matter whatsoever.

This can only happen because they have no majority. In theory the Dáil could have a vote tomorrow that Leo has to wear a pointy hat again due to FG's lack of a majority Under normal circumstances there would be some form of party unity and if there wasn't a GE would have been called long ago.

BoJack Horseman · 03-09-2019 10:39PM

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Yeah, Parliament is supposed to be soverign. If the PM can't get a majority in parliament for their policies they should not be able to go ahead with their policies anyway.

It isn't just a matter of a government loosing a vote and a bill being defeated.
That happens every so often anyway.

The Benn bill compels the government to obey decisions taken by entities outside the UK especially when in conflict with the governments own wishes.

This puts the current and future governments in perilous situations.
It frankly makes nation state governance in the UK a bit of a joke, as they are no longer the ones in charge.

Kermit.de.frog · 03-09-2019 10:40PM

InTheShadows wrote: »

No chance. The UK are leaving the EU in a few weeks. The remoaners have been led on a merry dance

Erm if no deal is off the table then the UK will not be leaving until at least January with more than likely rolling extensions thereafter!

thecretinhop · 03-09-2019 10:40PM

swoon de EU. record amount of sucides in greece after herr merkel. literally middle aged men killing demselves after rooting in bin.
de EU.

Infini · 03-09-2019 10:40PM

declanflynn wrote: »

It's funny, the Brits want to leave the EU but won't, now the government want a GE but wont get it, the opposition can have a GE but dont want it, what's the word, TIN POT

Let's be honest they can't have an election with a gun pointed at their heads by Boris the Bollocks. They need the threat of a crash out removed so whoever wins has enough time to sort themselves. The only reason they havent voted already is in case the slimy feckers in no10 try to engineer no deal as the default option and prevent any incoming goverment from changing this afterwards. Thats the "Elephant Trap" Tony Blair was on about.

Headshot · 03-09-2019 10:40PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Leadsom saying rebels will NOT lose whip tonight and will have second chance tomorrow.

Looks like it will be a closer run thing tomorrow.

They cannot afford to lose them lol

The rebels wont be changing their minds at this stage, I don't think many expected 21 rebels, that's a huge problem for the government

Popeleo · 03-09-2019 10:40PM

McGiver wrote: »

3/5ths 60% only, some 380

Nope. Two-thirds of total seats. So 650 /3 *2 = 433.333

So 434 votes needed.

Enzokk · 03-09-2019 10:40PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Looks like not one Scottish Tory MP rebelled, what a bunch of wasters they are

It is remarkable that Ruth Davidson lasted as long as she did as Scottish Tory leader when there seems to be no move from Scottish MPs to even go for a soft Brexit.

InTheShadows wrote: »

The people of the UK aren't ever putting a charlatan like Corbyn into number 10. Today is a marvelous day for the people who voted to leave the EU.

If Johnson can be PM then going for Corbyn is not a step back. Johnson is a liar and will cost the UK in the long run. Just look at his record as London mayor. How is the Garden Bridge? What about his promise to lie in front of the bulldozers to stop the 3rd runway?

Akrasia · 03-09-2019 10:40PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

It has ramifications for every future Prime Minister.

This is a massive precedent.

If Parliament doesn't like something Comrade Jezz cooks up 2 years from now, they can compel Corbyn to accept a decision they or any supra-national body decide, on any matter whatsoever.

Nonsense. This can only happen when the PM doesn’t have a working majority and is trying to force through changes that the entire opposition and a good chunk of his own party are opposed to.

gmisk · 03-09-2019 10:40PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Erm if no deal is off the table then the UK will not be leaving until at least January with more than likely rolling extensions thereafter!

Is that not reliant on the EU giving yet more extensions? I thought EU have ruled that out?

is_that_so · 03-09-2019 10:41PM

RickBlaine wrote: »

Copied straight from Twitter (David Allen Green) and it hits the nail on the head:

"Remember if it had not been for Johnson and Cummings "genius" prorogation then this vote would not have been held and lost and we would be on steady course for a likely No Deal Brexit

Huge political blunder

What happens when people think they are cleverer than they actually are"

Saw a comment about Cummings and how he loves military strategists. Didn't allow for emotion and dignity here.

Leroy42 · 03-09-2019 10:41PM

It does no such thing. It, if passed, demands that the PM seeks an extension to 31 Jan. If the EU request a longer extension then the HoC would need to vote on that.

Which part gives the control to the EU?

awec · 03-09-2019 10:41PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Leadsom saying rebels will NOT lose whip tonight and will have second chance tomorrow.

Looks like it will be a closer run thing tomorrow.

:pac::pac::pac:

Read: Tories realise that they're in trouble tomorrow, and if they wield the stick tonight , they've no leverage left for tomorrow.

boggerman1 · 03-09-2019 10:41PM

InTheShadows wrote: »

The people of the UK aren't ever putting a charlatan like Corbyn into number 10. Today is a marvelous day for the people who voted to leave the EU.

The 150,000 odd Tory membership already have in Johnson

martingriff · 03-09-2019 10:41PM

is_that_so wrote: »

Either of this is possible and let's not forget the Farage influence in all of this.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

3) The Brexit party take a share of their vote.

True forgot about him even though they have not done well in bye elections. I do not see him keeping that little deal of not contesting

Imreoir2 · 03-09-2019 10:42PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

It isn't just a matter of a government loosing a vote and a bill being defeated.
That happens every so often anyway.

The Benn bill compels the government to obey decisions taken by entities outside the UK especially when in conflict with the governments own wishes.

This puts the current and future governments in perilous situations.
It frankly makes nation state governance in the UK a bit of a joke, as they are no longer the ones in charge.

It only puts governments that do not command a majority in peril, and to be honest if you can't command a majority then you should not be in power anyway.

InTheShadows · 03-09-2019 10:42PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Erm if no deal is off the table then the UK will not be leaving until at least January with more than likely rolling extensions thereafter!

Erm no deal isn't off the table. Keep up

Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

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