Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

sdanseo · 03-09-2019 07:40PM

Must admit a certain respect for JRM's effective orative abilities. In the same way that there is almost universal acceptance that Hitler did a good job of building Autobahns.

It's just a pity that he's unfathomably delusional. He belongs in the Era of Charles I, not 2017.

Jizique · 03-09-2019 07:41PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Johnson's performance at the dispatch box earlier in the Commons was dreadful. Like some randomer from off the street. Think the Tories looked shocked at how actually bad this guy is.

I don’t know what that one sees in him, esp given his record

martingriff · 03-09-2019 07:41PM

briany wrote: »

Looking that way, but even if he's forced to go to Brussels looking for an extension, there's still the small matter of the EU actually agreeing to it. As things stand today at the time of writing this (could be out of date in 2 hours time), Brexiteers' best hope of crashing out on 31/10 is the EU just saying, "Yeah, no..."

If the EU basically say no to an extension they the British are out on the 31st unless they revoke Article 50

Strazdas · 03-09-2019 07:42PM

martingriff wrote: »

What did he say yesterday. All I hear from him is waffle not answering questions until he can give way time and time again

Accused a respected doctor of 'scaremongering' and making things up when he began to warn of the potential effects of No Deal

An Ciarraioch · 03-09-2019 07:43PM

sdanseo wrote: »

Must admit a certain respect for JRM's effective orative abilities. In the same way that there is almost universal acceptance that Hitler did a good job of building Autobahns.

It's just a pity that he's unfathomably delusional. He belongs in the Era of Charles I, not 2017.

I believe Enoch Powell was also regarded as an intellectual orator, but he'll go down in history due to his views on race and imperialism.

Igotadose · 03-09-2019 07:44PM

JRM just called Letwin an advocate for tyranny. Seriously.

Now JRM is whinging about no-confidence votes and politicking against Corbyn. He's got nothing.

MadYaker · 03-09-2019 07:44PM

What negotiations is Rhees Mogg mentioning???? There haven't been any for weeks??

Infini · 03-09-2019 07:45PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

The absolute mind boggling hypocrisy of this man. Procedural irregularities only matter when they come from the other side. But proroguing parliament, thats perfectly normal apparently. Great to see Bercow ripping him a new one - "I will do my job come what may, do or die."

To be honest it's good to see that pathetic lying weasel get the legs cut from under him by Bercow expecially after that LBC skit and how he blew off someone with genuine legitimate concerns with remoaner bs and accussing him of scaremongring. He aint able to pull the same shenanigans with someone who wont tolerate his BS and will call out his whinging about not getting his own way.

Duane Dibbley · 03-09-2019 07:47PM

What time is the vote?

VinLieger · 03-09-2019 07:48PM

Thatdoesnt looksafe tome AHHHHH!! wrote: »

I can envisage a border poll resulting from this.

The Brits are blaming everyone else for this, the EU for supporting the backstop for the border when the UK:

1. Voted to leave the EU.
2. Partitioned our country.

Problem is they are the only ones who can trigger the border poll and it wont happen if the tories are in charge, and if brexit does happen then i doubt Labour will want to call for one either as it will probably mean scotland get another ref too and suddenly Labour are the ones who disolved the united kingdom

L1011 · 03-09-2019 07:50PM

Thatdoesnt looksafe tome AHHHHH!! wrote: »

Yes obviously with Alliance so what other way as per the GFA could a border poll come about?

When Hermon was rambling on about it to JRM she said a hard border could incentivise SF to have one and she seems to think it'll pass.

The SoS needs to have confidence that it has a chance of passing. Opinion polling and SF/SDLP/FF if they run holding a handful more seats than DUP/UUP/TUV in Stormont would be major signs.

There are people voting for Alliance who would vote Yes, people who would vote No and even people who wouldn't even vote in a poll. I know of a long-term party member in Belfast who would see himself as small-u unionist who intends to abstain on a border poll.

Also suspect most PBP voters would vote for UI even though the party likely won't have a position on it.

Jizique · 03-09-2019 07:52PM

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Wow. What a powerful moment in the HoC.

All of those opposition MP's & Tory MP's who defected against Johnson have my greatest respect amid throughout all of this chaos.

If someone can give a list of those Tory MP's who went against BJ's wishes by calling for this debate tonight. I will be happy to read their names.

I want to put them on my Xmas card list

Infini · 03-09-2019 07:53PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Problem is they are the only ones who can trigger the border poll and it wont happen if the tories are in charge, and if brexit does happen then i doubt Labour will want to call for one either as it will probably mean scotland get another ref too and suddenly Labour are the ones who disolved the united kingdom

On the other hand if theres a GE and the SNP are the kingmakers then a 2nd indyref could be the price for Labour getting into power and if they vote for independence then its likely NI wont be far behind with a border poll.

briany · 03-09-2019 07:53PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Problem is they are the only ones who can trigger the border poll and it wont happen if the tories are in charge, and if brexit does happen then i doubt Labour will want to call for one either as it will probably mean scotland get another ref too and suddenly Labour are the ones who disolved the united kingdom

If the clamour for a BP or Indy ref become high enough, the UK would be dealing with its own version of the Catalan crisis on two fronts. It would be one thing just to ignore that, but the world media would be covering it, and they'd constantly be having to explain why they don't act upon the requests.

Infini wrote: »

On the other hand if theres a GE and the SNP are the kingmakers then a 2nd indyref could be the price for Labour getting into power and if they vote for independence then its likely NI wont be far behind with a border poll.

Supposing the Scotland voted for independence. What does the process following that look like? I assume they wouldn't be out the next day and there'd be a process of exiting the UK. And considering the current political atmosphere in the UK, would that process be protracted and bitter? Brexiteers have how they see their struggle to leave the EU. I would expect them to deftly try and flip that rhetoric around when it comes to making Scotland's exit from the UK a difficult one.

jasonb · 03-09-2019 07:54PM

Duane Dibbley wrote: »

What time is the vote?

As far as I know the debate is due to end at around 9:50. So some time after that I assume.

dublinman1990 · 03-09-2019 07:55PM

Prime Time will be back live from Westminster tonight for a Brexit Special with David McCullough to analyze tonight's debate in the HoC. Richard Downes will be getting the views of people about the debate from London. Miriam O'Callaghan will be with Paschal Donohue in studio to talk about funding companies along the border who have the potential to be hit hard from a No-Deal Brexit.

https://twitter.com/RTE_PrimeTime/status/1168903427189067776

Enzokk · 03-09-2019 07:55PM

Rees-Mogg is not inspiring confidence, avoiding the question of when he knew about the plan to prorogue parliament. Obviously he was aware of it before the plans became apparent as he has avoided providing an answer many times already. Once he said he was at Lords watching the cricket on the 16th, note he didn't confirm or deny he heard it first on that date wherever he was. Then the next one was not being able to tell them which date he knew about the plan. So it is easy to think that he knew about the plans around the 16th August seeing he is trying to avoid answering that question.

He also keeps droning on and on about the proroguing being normal, but we know it is not as the length of time it shuts down parliament is unprecedented. This government may be even more useless than May's, and that takes some doing.

As for the real issue, David Lammy nails it.

https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1168848827375394817?s=20

'The fastest way to "move on" from Brexit is to stop it democratically.'

If the UK wants to forget about Brexit then they need to drop it. If they want to continue then they have to know they are going to be talking about the EU forever, as they will always be the closest neighbour and due to geography it will just continue on and on.

Headshot · 03-09-2019 07:55PM

Headshot wrote: »

Got to love JRM not answering the proroguing questions

He makes BJ look like a saint

He is such a snake oil salesman, refusing the answer

Itssoeasy · 03-09-2019 07:56PM

Charles Stewart Parnell getting a mention in the Palace of Westminster for probably the first time since he graced those halls.

thecretinhop · 03-09-2019 07:57PM

christ the echo chamber in here

Enzokk · 03-09-2019 08:00PM

thecretinhop wrote: »

christ the echo chamber in here

By all means, instead of complaining about us echoing ourselves in here, care to add anything to the discussion that we can discuss?

martingriff · 03-09-2019 08:00PM

thecretinhop wrote: »

christ the echo chamber in here

care to say what you mean or just a 1 liner with nothing substantive

martingriff · 03-09-2019 08:00PM

Enzokk wrote: »

By all means, instead of complaining about us echoing ourselves in here, care to add anything to the discussion that we can discuss?

You beat me to it

declanflynn · 03-09-2019 08:01PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Charles Stewart Parnell getting a mention in the Palace of Westminster for probably the first time since he graced those halls.

I missed that, what was it

TCDStudent1 · 03-09-2019 08:03PM

declanflynn wrote: »

I missed that, what was it

The house hasnt seen anything as unconstitutional since Parnell

Loafing Oaf · 03-09-2019 08:03PM

martingriff wrote: »

You beat me to it

One might say you ended up echoing his post:p

martingriff · 03-09-2019 08:04PM

I know things maybe different from here as in here local area (normally) vote on who goes for election so how can they stop people who vote for this tonight from not running. I also presume it is a private vote so how can they tell (bar those who have some out) who voted against it

Itssoeasy · 03-09-2019 08:04PM

declanflynn wrote: »

I missed that, what was it

JRM said that the debate and vote hasn’t been seen since CSP tried to “bung up parliament”

Itssoeasy · 03-09-2019 08:05PM

Thatdoesnt looksafe tome AHHHHH!! wrote: »

Who said that?

JRM.

Headshot · 03-09-2019 08:05PM

ah man I just learned that Phillip Lee defects to Lib Dems

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2019/sep/03/tory-mp-phillip-lee-defects-to-lib-dems-midway-through-johnson-speech-video

The head on BJ was priceless

Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

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