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Introducing the Current Affairs/IMHO forum

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Comments

  • #332
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    I would say the forum has managed to end up becoming incredibly toxic in a pretty short space of time. The thread about "compulsory homosexuality" which related to a batty polish publication ended up becoming a dumping ground for homophobia.

    The numerous migration or refugee related threads are similarly desperate. And they're not moderate views, they're closer to "coming here to rape women".. Or here's one of latest rather nasty insinuations. It's basically the wild west of ****ty views.
    Gay men too. Who else wants to see a bunch of fit young African men hanging around with no real prospects and no way to earn money.


  • #333
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,004 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    batgoat wrote: »
    I would say the forum has managed to end up becoming incredibly toxic in a pretty short space of time.


    It has become the absolute sh!thole everybody knew it would become.


    Far, far too much leniency given to posters whose intent to do nothing other than post in bad faith and spew shyte is obvious after just a few posts.


  • #334
    Sonny noggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    osarusan wrote: »
    It has become the absolute sh!thole everybody knew it would become.


    Far, far too much leniency given to posters whose intent to do nothing other than post in bad faith and spew shyte is obvious after just a few posts.

    Agreed. The amount of posters that throw out accusations of racism at the drop of a hat to stifle discussion on any topic they don’t like being discussed is sickening. They need to be called out and carded to get this bad faith behaviour under control.


  • #335
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    KyussB wrote: »
    The fuck*...it even follows into this thread - zero argument, just a statement that I expressed views of a "centrally controlled collective labour political state system" that this poster themselves knows full well that I did not express - they know that not a single part of any of my posts referred to collective labour, nor central control. It's precisely the same as accusing a person of advocating e.g. eugenics, when they never said anything like that in their posts, and therefore they are racist/fascist.Not only that, but this statement made without any attempt at backing it up, then has the burden of proof flipped completely 180 - so that I'm supposed to prove a negative - that I didn't say that.That's not a valid "difference of opinion" - that is flat out making shit* up, that the poster 100% knows is untrue, with no evidence/backup, then saying the burden of proof is on the accused to disprove it - and that is what sets it apart from every other example of accusation of an '-ism' thrown around.Show me anything remotely comparable to that. Tell me how that is not tantamount to trolling...

    It is you who have brought up this very issue here. I agree it's defintly not the place to attack others because your argument does not stand up to scrutiny.

    However let's have the full facts not just your opinion on it. It's not one poster saying the political system you are trying to promote is akin to communism. More importantly you have failed to show otherwise despite being asked to do so.

    Specifically you have called for "direct government involvement and spending in the economy" - you have also called for the "massive mobilization of labour" by the government. How is any of that not a call for a centrally controlled / collective labour political state system? Link

    And the scale of what you are proposing that governments wield political/economic power to mobilize workers at a 'massive' scale 
    KyussB wrote:
    This has to be done at a scale and in a timely enough manner, that the private sector has proven itself incapable of - which means it requires direct government action to achieve this

    Posters pointing this out are not being mean and your accusations of trolling are simply puerile at best.

    And the funniest thing of all is no one absolutely no one is calling you a "communist". If they have please detail where.

    So yes there is no reason for the throwing such daft accusations here other than attempting to win an argument by proxy and labeling anyone who disagrees with you a troll.


  • #336
    KyussB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    Direct government creation of jobs/work and employing people, and spending to do this, is equated as Communist (apparently making the entire world Communist) - massively mobilizing i.e. employing and directing workers on large projects, also equated as Communist (again, every country that has ever engaged in a large infrastructure project, i.e. all of them once again, must be Communist...).

    Posters claiming I want the whole economy run this way (as that's what a command economy is), when I don't - i.e. completely making shit up that they know is untrue - in order to pin the Communist label.

    The burden of proof, flipped 180 on to the person accused of putting out Communist views - when it's meant to lay with the person accusing.

    Multiple people mobbing a person with Comunism accusations, equated with being proof that the views are Communist - when that makes zero sense.

    These are really clear examples of bad faith argument, and trolling.


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  • #337
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Sonny noggs wrote: »
    Agreed. The amount of posters that throw out accusations of racism at the drop of a hat to stifle discussion on any topic they don’t like being discussed is sickening. They need to be called out and carded to get this bad faith behaviour under control.

    Thing is, there are plenty of posters who are racist and seem to be given a lot of leeway.


  • #338
    KyussB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    And the latest edition - within minutes of reading/posting on Feedback, this particular poster dumps in that thread:
    "No thanks. Sounds a bit like communism. The free market is better."

    No argument, nothing, just the red-baiting shite, right after reading Feedback...almost like they read this thread, and and then decided to post that :rolleyes:


  • #339
    Sonny noggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    batgoat wrote: »
    Thing is, there are plenty of posters who are racist and seem to be given a lot of leeway.

    Not really. You thinking someone is racist doesn’t make someone racist.


  • #340
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    batgoat wrote: »
    Thing is, there are plenty of posters who are racist and seem to be given a lot of leeway.

    who decides

    and how much leeway

    these are quite literally the issues


  • #341
    KyussB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    See, this is the purpose of the whataboutery regarding racism/fascism (and other general '-ism's) as well: I'm nailing very clear examples of trolling through red-baiting, and the whataboutery is springing a discussion that attempts to muddy that.


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  • #342
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kyuss i think youve made it clear that you dont think your ideas are communist

    i think everyone has kind of addressed that within a fair context of "people get to make incorrect statements, sometimes disingenuously, sometimes down to a simple disagreement"

    you keep coming back saying "yes but look this isnt communist they shouldnt be allowed say im communist"

    i really dunno what would suit you at this stage bar everyone agreeing with you that your ideas arent communist, but that really doesnt seem like a fair use of an overarching thread on the overall use of an entire forum tbh


  • #343
    Sonny noggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    This is a feedback thread to discuss the Current Affairs Forum.


  • #344
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    KyussB wrote: »
    See, this is the purpose of the whataboutery regarding racism/fascism (and other general '-ism's) as well: I'm nailing very clear examples of trolling through red-baiting, and the whataboutery is springing a discussion that attempts to muddy that.

    Nope. You've failed to even do that. If you put up some grand scheme to cure the world of its ills - expect it to be held up to scrutiny and be prepared to defend it. Which you clearly haven't done and are now screaming here that people are being mean to you...

    Unfortunately it looks like the whole thing has fallen flat on its face before it even got out of the box...

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


  • #345
    KyussB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    Deleted User wrote: »
    kyuss i think youve made it clear that you dont think your ideas are communist

    i think everyone has kind of addressed that within a fair context of "people get to make incorrect statements, sometimes disingenuously, sometimes down to a simple disagreement"

    you keep coming back saying "yes but look this isnt communist they shouldnt be allowed say im communist"

    i really dunno what would suit you at this stage bar everyone agreeing with you that your ideas arent communist, but that really doesnt seem like a fair use of an overarching thread on the overall use of an entire forum tbh
    I'm not saying/advocating what people should and should not be allowed to say - I'm making an argument about when overall behaviour crosses the line into trolling.

    I'm fine with a few instances of being labelled Communist, and taking the piss out of that - which I did in the thread (I definitely don't want any mod intervention over stuff like that, that would be way over the top) - but it's gone past that, and is now being used in lieu of argument, in order to shut down the discussion/debate - even long after I discredited the comparisons, in the thread.

    There is persistence, here - there is an unresponsiveness to counterarguments showing how my views don't fit with that - and there is the replacemment of real arguments, with accusations of Communism - and it is coupled with mobbing behaviour.

    You don't get that with other '-isms'. This is something more.


  • #346
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    i dont think we're getting through to each other

    you think im arguing with you about the instance

    ten or twelve posts in a row now im saying hey lookit the instance isnt really anything anyone here seems interested in debating with you, but your overall point doesnt seem to hold up as a special case against all the other kneejerk/antagonistic misrepresentation of opposition points of view on every contentious topic across the site since well years ago

    i dont see that its new or that its in any way more or less insidious as the other behaviours you seem to think arent an issue


  • #347
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    KyussB wrote: »
    No argument, nothing, just the red-baiting shite, right after reading Feedback...almost like they read this thread, and and then decided to post that :rolleyes:

    Having debated with you under previous usernames(not an issue just highlighting the context) the reality is some of your theories are very much against the grain to say the least. Within reason that's not an issue and it's actually very good to see a variety of different opinions. However expect people to challenge them and don't expect everyone to agree with you.

    Just because someone disagrees with a poster does not mean they are trolling. ln most cases there are certain judgements that posters make that are different and leads to different stances. This can lead to some very interesting debates as different issues get teased out. Automatically calling everyone who disagrees with you/any other poster a troll is just asking for censorship. There are plenty of echo chambers on the Internet for any poster who doesn't want to have their opinions challenged. Thankfully Boards is not one of them.


  • #348
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 78,513 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    This thread is for discussion of the Current Affairs forum, and not to debate any personal views/beliefs of what is or is not acceptable. Please get back on topic

    Any questions PM me - do not respond to this post in-thread

    Thanks


  • #349
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Anyway. Back on topic.

    The current affairs forum, I like it


  • #350
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    You have three or four very obvious trolls running riot and unchecked in the brexit thread. It’s gone to derailed hell

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057993229/91/#post111158772


  • #351
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    You have three or four very obvious trolls running riot and unchecked in the brexit thread. It’s gone to derailed hell

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057993229/91/#post111158772

    Seems to be a fair few of those trolls that are covering loads of threads.


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  • #352
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    batgoat wrote: »
    Seems to be a fair few of those trolls that are covering loads of threads.

    Some of the same accounts for sure. Sometimes different but using the same language. Disruptive misleading contrarian but not contributing


  • #353
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    In the last week or so, there's now a group who seem to target people over their job status. Sometimes based on their postings but regardless incredibly nasty. And it's basically the same group engaging in racism etc. It's like the quality of posting is acceptably dropping off a cliff.


  • #354
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    batgoat wrote: »
    In the last week or so, there's now a group who seem to target people over their job status. Sometimes based on their postings but regardless incredibly nasty. And it's basically the same group engaging in racism etc. It's like the quality of posting is acceptably dropping off a cliff.

    It’s remarkable. There’s a guy pretending to be a gay guy attacking everyone in that admittedly hostile thread. He’s clearly a troll. Fighting against a homophobic troll in fairness among others.
    There’s another guy pretending be a staunch gaeilgeoir in the Irish language death knell thread using exactly the same inane attack everyone nonsense the first guy is.
    See it all over the forums. Same MO same no/low post count re reg, post in the same topics usually GAA to start then move into the controversial ones with their pungent opinions.
    Pointless blocking as you’d be all day an people keep replying to them and feeding it. And around it bloody goes.


  • #355
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    Disruptive misleading contrarian but not contributing



    jesus i hate to be so bold, but have you ever seen anyone you agree with post in a manner that you would describe as disruptive or not contributing?

    have you ever posted like this yourself?

    have you done so in the past few days?

    i mean, id say you have. and for clarity when i myself see a post or poster ripe for a zing i usually cant help myself. but im not in here every ten minutes crying for policy intervention (tbh i reckon the mods are too quick to action me for my quality zing game :) )



    the usual rejoinder to these complaints is that the designation "troll" seems to have more to do with the position you take than the actual manner of posting or behaviour, and tbh it would seem to apply here also


  • #356
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    jesus i hate to be so bold, but have you ever seen anyone you agree with post in a manner that you would describe as disruptive or not contributing?

    have you ever posted like this yourself?

    have you done so in the past few days?

    i mean, id say you have. and for clarity when i myself see a post or poster ripe for a zing i usually cant help myself. but im not in here every ten minutes crying for policy intervention (tbh i reckon the mods are too quick to action me for my quality zing game :) )



    the usual rejoinder to these complaints is that the designation "troll" seems to have more to do with the position you take than the actual manner of posting or behaviour, and tbh it would seem to apply here also

    Well of course in the normal rough and tumble of spirited debate. There’s people being openly and consistently homophobic in that thread, being fed by one or two people that even a cursory glance at their posts shows it to be antagonistic and just out for trouble. Both are suspect if you look at their posts.
    They were two worthy conversations too and both fell off a cliff quite quickly as people left and the antagonists took hold.


  • #357
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    fair enough we're not miles apart on it i dont think


  • #358
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    The stuff actually being tolerated seems to be stuff that would have been viewed as unacceptable in after hours.... The 'How are ye dealing with the compulsory homosexuality in Ireland?' descended into absolutely homophobia and has been like that for the last week. This was poster earlier this afternoon.
    It is an undeniable fact that the vast majority of clerical sexual abusers were Homosexual men and the majority of victims were boys.
    If thats uncomfortable for you then so be it.

    I'm inclined to say the issues with the forum aren't going to improve at this stage.


  • #359
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 78,513 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    batgoat wrote: »
    The stuff actually being tolerated seems to be stuff that would have been viewed as unacceptable in after hours.... The 'How are ye dealing with the compulsory homosexuality in Ireland?' descended into absolutely homophobia and has been like that for the last week. This was poster earlier this afternoon.


    I'm inclined to say the issues with the forum aren't going to improve at this stage.

    Can you point out to me what is factually incorrect in the above statements?


  • #360
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Beasty wrote: »
    Can you point out to me what is factually incorrect in the above statements?

    Abusers of children target those who are most available to them. In the case of child sexual abuse in the church, boys were the most available hence more boys being abused. This is what the actual research shows btw. So claiming that the majority abusers in the Catholic church were 'homosexual' is nonsense. Also you see nothing incendiary about posting crap like that? Diving in to link paedophilia with homosexuality?

    For the present discussion, the important point is that many child molesters cannot be meaningfully described as homosexuals, heterosexuals, or bisexuals (in the usual sense of those terms) because they are not really capable of a relationship with an adult man or woman. Instead of gender, their sexual attractions are based primarily on age. These individuals – who are often characterized as fixated – are attracted to children, not to men or women.

    Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males..." (p.180).

    ...
    Other researchers have taken different approaches, but have similarly failed to find a connection between homosexuality and child molestation. Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues reviewed 352 medical charts, representing all of the sexually abused children seen in the emergency room or child abuse clinic of a Denver children's hospital during a one-year period (from July 1, 1991 to June 30, 1992). The molester was a gay or lesbian adult in fewer than 1% of cases in which an adult molester could be identified – only 2 of the 269 cases (Jenny et al., 1994).

    https://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html


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  • #361
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 78,513 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    batgoat wrote: »
    Abusers of children target those who are most available to them. In the case of child sexual abuse in the church, boys were the most available hence more boys being abused. This is what the actual research shows btw. So claiming that the majority abusers in the Catholic church were 'homosexual' is nonsense.

    So why don't you post that in the thread rather than assume everyone interprets the comment the same way as you, and indeed trying to then make a big play of it over here

    When I saw the post I saw nothing wrong with it, but a simple correction in-thread was all that was needed


This discussion has been closed.
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