Opel Zafira started the car park fire in Cork

CJhaughey · 03-09-2019 09:24AM

mickdw wrote: »

60 cars and a building with no injuries.....
Chicken feed.

I saw some article where a woman driving out got out to have a look for 10 min and banged her head apparently.

zilog_jones · 03-09-2019 09:41AM

terrydel wrote: »

Must be tough to proof the owner got notification of the recall? Most of these are bought as old bangers by foreign nationals as far as I can tell, and have had up half a dozen owners so regularly changing hands. I'd assume the owner will just plead ignorance and probably wont have any means to pay compensation in any case, if found liable. Ignorance isnt normally a defence but I just dont see how you prove an owner got notification of a recall and failed to act on it.

If the car is registered correctly (and I mean vehicle registration with the DTTAS in Shannon), then the manufacturers should have access to these records for the purpose of notifying owners about safety recalls. Opel should have records of which recalls were performed on that car.

Of course there's nothing stopping the owner doing nothing about it, though. I know someone with a Zafira who has yet to do the (April?) 2019 recall...

loki7777 · 03-09-2019 09:44AM

But FFS how many recalls can opel issue - they can't fix it or don't want to. I thought 2 was enough but you wrote 3rd was issued in april.

Anyone remember how long took second and third recall. My zafira was with the dealer for around 5h on the first recall.

terrydel · 03-09-2019 10:48AM

zilog_jones wrote: »

If the car is registered correctly (and I mean vehicle registration with the DTTAS in Shannon), then the manufacturers should have access to these records for the purpose of notifying owners about safety recalls. Opel should have records of which recalls were performed on that car.

Of course there's nothing stopping the owner doing nothing about it, though. I know someone with a Zafira who has yet to do the (April?) 2019 recall...

But what stops the owner simply saying 'no I never got that'. You'd need proof that an email was sent, letter sent and received, phone call made and answered etc. Its extremely hard to prove the owner categorically knew and didnt act on it, imho.

Hellrazer · 03-09-2019 10:58AM

The problem isnt people saying they didnt get the letter-the problem is people dont think its serious enough to get done.
Earlier in the thread I said I had 9 cancellations last week for this recall.
Today even with all the press coverage I had 3 more cancellations.
No manufacturer can plan against people cancelling their appointment.

Hellrazer · 03-09-2019 10:59AM

The actual new recall takes 20 minutes to carry out. Most times we have them done while the customer gets a coffee. Theres no excuse for people not getting it done.

zilog_jones · 03-09-2019 11:08AM

Unless they used registered post or recorded phone calls, there's not much they could prove I guess.

Maybe the whole safety recall process needs to be questioned here. Maybe they are not doing enough? If the manufacturers know that cars can catch fire due to known defects, should they be taken off the road until they are fixed? BMW seemed to be doing something like this with the EGR cooler recalls, but it seems to be totally up to the manufacturer's discretion. Obviously there can be significant costs in essentially banning a whole type of car off the roads, but the substantial damage caused by this one car puts all that into perspective.

Of course we don't know if the recalls were performed on the car or not - if it caught fire after the third recall, that raises even further questions. The Examiner seem reluctant to even confirm it was a Zafira...

CJhaughey · 03-09-2019 11:21AM

South Korea banned BMW's from multilevel car parks because of the fire risk.
If owners are notified and cancelled then the fault lies with them in the event of an incident.

Toyotafanboi · 03-09-2019 11:21AM

Yeah, it's easy to jump to conclusions and it seems likely it could be a recall vehicle but we dont know that the owner wasnt storing 2 litres of petrol in a coca cola bottle on the dash in direct sunlight.

In regards Opel taking the recall seriously, maybe they aren't? Owners definitely aren't, but that's nothing new or exclusive to this recall. I know it's a very different thing but when the emissions fix first rolled out, we were checking people off a list based on our catchment area. We were in charge of no shows, they all got 2x phone calls, an email with a read receipt and a registered letter if they either missed an appointment or never made contact. All the attempts were recorded. You were to throw the book at getting someone in, in terms of no expense or inconvenience spared, we were collecting and delivering cars within a 50km radius, doing the work evenings and weekends, whatever it took to get the numbers down.

Maybe Opel need to try a bit harder given it's a fire safety concern, a bit like how BMW are doing things with grounding cars? It presents it own problems, like all the bad press, pissed off owners, astronomical car hire bill's etc. but at least they are taking care of it.

Cordell · 03-09-2019 11:30AM

Morrisseeee wrote: »

It'll be interesting if the Zafira has had the 3rd recall done, imagine the panic then. Where do owners of Zafiras (fire-starters) stand legally with regards to these death traps ? Can they demand their money back (at current valuation I presume) ? Could owners sue Opel for it being such a hazardous vehicle?
First re-call was in 2015, then 2016 and now 2019, and who's to say it's 100% fixed at that!
Offending culprit >

Is that thing in the centre some sort of spring loaded solder based thermal breaker? That's something from the 70s ffs.

03-09-2019 11:44AM

Cordell wrote: »

Is that thing in the centre some sort of spring loaded solder based thermal breaker? That's something from the 70s ffs.

it's a resistor ,
heats up like the element in a toaster

CardinalJ · 03-09-2019 11:47AM

Dia_Anseo wrote:

Under insurance law flooding/fires cannot be claimed against other parties.

That's just not accurate. True to a certain extent but not in a lot cases, this included.

Cordell · 03-09-2019 11:51AM

BrownFinger wrote: »

it's a resistor ,
heats up like the element in a toaster

I was not talking about the yokes that look like springs, but the thing in the very centre that looks like a bent strip of metal. I think I know what is is now - it's a bimetal strip that will short the resistors when heated enough, stopping them from heating up further. Shabby design if you ask me - a toaster is much safer.

terrydel · 03-09-2019 11:56AM

Hellrazer wrote: »

The problem isnt people saying they didnt get the letter-the problem is people dont think its serious enough to get done.
Earlier in the thread I said I had 9 cancellations last week for this recall.
Today even with all the press coverage I had 3 more cancellations.
No manufacturer can plan against people cancelling their appointment.

I agree, my point was around trying to find that the current owner is liable for any damages in the event they didnt adhere to the recall despite being aware of it. Cant see there being much hope of proving that.

03-09-2019 12:02PM

Cordell wrote: »

I was not talking about the yokes that look like springs, but the thing in the very centre that looks like a bent strip of metal. I think I know what is is now - it's a bimetal strip that will short the resistors when heated enough, stopping them from heating up further. Shabby design if you ask me - a toaster is much safer.

I'd say your right,
It probably sparks like crazy when the contact opens until it either melts away and stops working or.....welds itself closed and fire time

FishOnABike · 03-09-2019 12:21PM

terrydel wrote: »

I agree, my point was around trying to find that the current owner is liable for any damages in the event they didnt adhere to the recall despite being aware of it. Cant see there being much hope of proving that.

Car manufacturers also tend to be somewhat diplomatic in their customer communications about recalls, going back as far as the ford pinto if not earlier, both in the prevalence and in the severity of the issue causing the recall.

zilog_jones · 03-09-2019 12:23PM

Cordell wrote: »

I was not talking about the yokes that look like springs, but the thing in the very centre that looks like a bent strip of metal. I think I know what is is now - it's a bimetal strip that will short the resistors when heated enough, stopping them from heating up further. Shabby design if you ask me - a toaster is much safer.

It looks absolutely archaic - shocking to believe this is a standard component in a car that was a new model this century. Penny-pinching engineering at its best.

dmcsweeney · 03-09-2019 12:26PM

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

Actually just listened to a RedFM podcast today and Brendan Keary said if they can't transfer their own insurance we can sort something else out, i.e temporarily put them on garage insurance.

He also stressed they were not under no obligation to buy, they just don't want people put out especially with school runs etc.

Nice gesture, especially considering they don't even offer me a push bike when I drop my 5 series in for service, which can run to over €1000 for a major one. :rolleyes:

Morrisseeee · 03-09-2019 12:54PM

A guy in work here just booked his Zafira in with an Opel garage, but they can't get to it until.............Oct 1st ! They told him they are swamped since the 'incident'!
So what happens if it goes on fire in the meantime ?! :eek:

cpoh1 · 03-09-2019 12:56PM

dmcsweeney wrote: »

Nice gesture, especially considering they don't even offer me a push bike when I drop my 5 series in for service, which can run to over €1000 for a major one. :rolleyes:

Interesting. Anytime ive used them from a Nissan perspective they have offered me a curtosy car if i have given them notice otherwise they will cover taxi costs to and from work.

punisher5112 · 03-09-2019 12:58PM

Morrisseeee wrote: »

A guy in work here just booked his Zafira in with an Opel garage, but they can't get to it until.............Oct 1st ! They told him they are swamped since the 'incident'!
So what happens if it goes on fire in the meantime ?! :eek:

He would be best not using if possible. Of course he may get away with it but it's a risk.

He would have to claim on his insurance I would say.

dmcsweeney · 03-09-2019 01:10PM

cpoh1 wrote: »

Interesting. Anytime ive used them from a Nissan perspective they have offered me a curtosy car if i have given them notice otherwise they will cover taxi costs to and from work.

I work near Keary's and have been offered a lift back to work but chose to walk. However, there is no offer of a courtesy car, so last time I asked for one to be made available (new model 5 series, as I'll be getting one of those next) and when I got there nothing. Though when mine went in for the recall inspection they told me I'd be provided with a rental if mine needed parts replaced as it could be there for several weeks.

TheChizler · 03-09-2019 01:12PM

Morrisseeee wrote: »

A guy in work here just booked his Zafira in with an Opel garage, but they can't get to it until.............Oct 1st ! They told him they are swamped since the 'incident'!
So what happens if it goes on fire in the meantime ?! :eek:

Don't use the blower!

dmcsweeney · 03-09-2019 01:16PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

The actual new recall takes 20 minutes to carry out. Most times we have them done while the customer gets a coffee. Theres no excuse for people not getting it done.

Why not just fit a switch with position 0 and 4 only. Job done!:pac:

coylemj · 03-09-2019 01:23PM

Dia_Anseo wrote: »

As this is damage caused by fire, nobody claims off anyone.

Under insurance law flooding/fires cannot be claimed against other parties.

Everyone with a burnt out car will have to go through their own insurance for a claim.

Don't know about floods but on the face of it, the Accidental Fires Act 1943 would appear to apply. Meaning that you cannot claim against anyone.

Unless...... you can show negligence on someone's part. So if you had no insurance cover of your own, it may be worth pursuing the Zafira guy

1.—(1) Where any person (in this section referred to as the injured person) has suffered damage by reason of fire accidentally occurring (whether before or after the passing of this Act) in or on the building or land of another person, then, notwithstanding any rule of law, the following provisions shall have effect, that is to say:—

(a) no legal proceedings shall, after the passing of this Act, be instituted in any court by the injured person or any person claiming through or under him or as his insurer against such other person on account of such damage;

03-09-2019 01:40PM

mickdw wrote: »

60 cars and a building with no injuries.....
Chicken feed.

This is actually quite a good comment. No injuries or loss (amazingly lucky) of life means any insurance claims will be much less than they could be.

03-09-2019 01:42PM

coylemj wrote: »

Don't know about floods but on the face of it, the Accidental Fires Act 1943 would appear to apply. Meaning that you cannot claim against anyone.

Unless...... you can show negligence on someone's part. So if you had no insurance cover of your own, it may be worth pursuing the Zafira guy

1.—(1) Where any person (in this section referred to as the injured person) has suffered damage by reason of fire accidentally occurring (whether before or after the passing of this Act) in or on the building or land of another person, then, notwithstanding any rule of law, the following provisions shall have effect, that is to say:—

(a) no legal proceedings shall, after the passing of this Act, be instituted in any court by the injured person or any person claiming through or under him or as his insurer against such other person on account of such damage;

If the recall has been done then Opel have F'd up, if recall ignored then individual F'd up. If this falls back to the Zafira and its known issues then someone is on the hook

fryup · 03-09-2019 01:56PM

^^^^^^^^^^

or maybe garage f'd up?

03-09-2019 02:00PM

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^

or maybe garage f'd up?

Indeed.
This won't fall on the shopping centre but, if it is a Zafira, someone has been a very naughty boy (Opel, garage, or owner) and someone will have to cover it.

Opel in the news saying that they are liaising with Gardaí about this, to determine what happened.

For them to come out like this would, to me, indicate that the Gardaí have basically told them.

_Brian · 03-09-2019 02:05PM

Phileas Frog wrote: »

The car was already on fire before it drove into the carpark, apparently

Allot of drivers are completely oblivious as they drive. Could be he driver had no idea there was trouble until they were parked and it was too late.

Opel Zafira started the car park fire in Cork

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