Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

ToBeFrank123 · 30-08-2019 11:11PM

VinLieger wrote: »

The UK divided our country 100 years ago and are out to do it again.

Maintaining our security in the single market is absolutely integral to a United Ireland ever happening and us being able to anywhere near afford it.

So putting up border posts is vital to a United Ireland?

No its not. Border posts will set back that cause by decades. In fact the DUP would love to see border posts.

54and56 · 30-08-2019 11:12PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

The brexit secretary ladies and gentlemen. The delusion is strong in this one.

He really doesn't come across as very sharp, I'd say it's a toss up between himself and Raab to be the chief useful idiot in the cabinet.

Strazdas · 30-08-2019 11:13PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Nope. We go toe to toe with the Germans for a change and tell them to cop on, that we're not dividing our country.

Merkel is popular and respected in Ireland. What are you talking about? You are giving us some Daily Express version of Irish-EU relations.

ToBeFrank123 · 30-08-2019 11:14PM

Imreoir2 wrote: »

So what? The HOC can vote to make the sky pink if they like, it does not have the power to alter reality and the reality is that the UK needs a deal and a deal will include the backstop. They can vote against it all they like, but eventually they will have to grit their teeth and bear it or watch their economey and probably their country fall apart.

We will soon see. As it stands the UK are committed to leaving on 31st October. My take is Johnson won't compromise on that otherwise he'll be seen in the same light as May.

You also don't understand that the HOC has been taken out of the picture by Johnson. They are in no position to vote on anything.

Imreoir2 · 30-08-2019 11:15PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Let the EU and UK sort it out. Their problem.

They will eventually.

They won't if we offer to put up border posts.

We are the EU. Our border is the EUs border. Our choice in a no-deal scenario is to control the border or leave the Single Market, one is unfortunate the other is national self-destruction. It is no-choice at all. We will not be leaving the single market.

The only sure way to prevent a hard border in a no-deal scenario is for NI to vote to rejoin the rest of Ireland. If they choose to stick with the UK knowing the consequences of that choice, then a hard border is as much their fault as it is the UKs.

Infini · 30-08-2019 11:20PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

So putting up border posts is vital to a United Ireland?

No its not. Border posts will set back that cause by decades. In fact the DUP would love to see border posts.

Actually the border itself would only be temporary because the economic ruin caused by British idiocy and DUP incompetence will drastically accelerate a United Ireland by the "look at how better things are here" approach and basically evicerating the DUP by hammering every hollow argument and statement they make with facts and how they facilitate that disaster.

lawred2 · 30-08-2019 11:22PM

There is only one Nation who is and continues to be responsible for partition in this island.

Anyone suggesting that a border on this island is something of our doing is Mod - "incorrect"

54and56 · 30-08-2019 11:24PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The official Irexit candidate Hermann Kelly was editor of the Irish Catholic so should presumably have attracted some of the one third of voters who voted against the eight amendment.

He was also a journalist on Irish and UK national papers so not an unknown.

In the EU elections despite all the above he only got 2,441 first preference votes out of an electorate of 884,118.

That's the mandate for Irexit.

That's less than 0.3% of the voting population or to put it another way, 99.7% of voters don't support Irexit.

I'm guessing ToBeFrank123 is one of the 0.3%

firemansam4 · 30-08-2019 11:25PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Let the EU and UK sort it out. Their problem.

They will eventually.

They won't if we offer to put up border posts.

In case you didn't realise, we are the EU...

L1011 · 30-08-2019 11:32PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Proposed by lame Duck Theresa May and with no mandate.

Its amazing how few people understand why tge backstop was never going to get through the HOC.

May could have proposed anything but unless it passed the HOC it was useless. But still people cling to the failed backstop.

Its dead, move on.

What alternative do you propose?

So you haven't got one then?

Zubeneschamali · 30-08-2019 11:33PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

But still people cling to the failed backstop. Its dead, move on. What alternative do you propose?

No deal. Nothing. No mini deals.

Then wait for England to come crawling back looking for a free trade agreement.

Present the WA without transition, wait for them to sign. Wait 25 years if necessary.

54and56 · 30-08-2019 11:35PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Nope. We go toe to toe with the Germans for a change and tell them to cop on, that we're not dividing our country.

How are we dividing the RoI exactly? Where is this new border being drawn?

Or are you referring to the British border in Ireland imposed by the country you propose we throw our lot in with instead of the EU who 97.3% of voters want us to stick with?

54and56 · 30-08-2019 11:38PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Proposed by lame Duck Theresa May and with no mandate.

Its amazing how few people understand why tge backstop was never going to get through the HOC.

May could have proposed anything but unless it passed the HOC it was useless. But still people cling to the failed backstop.

Its dead, move on.

What alternative do you propose?

You are seriously deluded my friend. May called an election and returned as PM.

She actually had a mandate.

What mandate does BoJo have?

ToBeFrank123 · 30-08-2019 11:43PM

lawred2 wrote: »

There is only one Nation who is and continues to be responsible for partition in this island.

Anyone suggesting that a border on this island is something of our doing is a troll.

Do you actually know who proposed and who voted against the backstop?

Theresa May proposed it. Corbyn voted against.

If he and most of Labour voted for it, happy days, WA would have passed.

So if you want to point fingers you could start with him. Johnson certainly wouldn't be leader now if he'd supported it. Like others he wasn't happy with the deal including the backstop. Pity that.

Did I suggest the border was of our doing?

declanflynn · 30-08-2019 11:44PM

lawred2 wrote: »

There is only one Nation who is and continues to be responsible for partition in this island.

Anyone suggesting that a border on this island is something of our doing is a troll.

Theres still a chance that nation will put a border down the Irish sea, after all it would only upset athe airheads in the dup most of England couldn't care less about the dup

54and56 · 30-08-2019 11:44PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The backstop is dead. It doesn't matter who proposed it. It was repeatedly voted down in the HOC including by Labour, Jeremy Corbyn and most of the opposition.

Fine so come up with workable alternatives? The EU and Ireland have been absolutely open to the UK proposing an alternative which is workable and can be implemented NOW but thus far no such proposal has been made by the UK and their own Civil Service have estimated it will take 10 years for the currently identified "Alternative Arrangements" to be implemented.

declanflynn · 30-08-2019 11:46PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

But still people cling to the failed backstop. Its dead, move on. What alternative do you propose?

No deal. Nothing. No mini deals.

Then wait for England to come crawling back looking for a free trade agreement.

Present the WA without transition, wait for them to sign. Wait 25 years if necessary.

Yep agree fully, it would be great if the Irish government could say stuff like dis, I bet they want to

54and56 · 30-08-2019 11:49PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

We will soon see. As it stands the UK are committed to leaving on 31st October. My take is Johnson won't compromise on that otherwise he'll be seen in the same light as May.

You also don't understand that the HOC has been taken out of the picture by Johnson. They are in no position to vote on anything.

Johnson might be able to bully and sideline the HoC but he won't bully the EU and we are part of the EU.

ToBeFrank123 · 30-08-2019 11:51PM

54and56 wrote: »

That's less than 0.3% of the voting population or to put it another way, 99.7% of voters don't support Irexit.

I'm guessing ToBeFrank123 is one of the 0.3%

What on earth are you talking about?

This thread has gone a bit bizarre.

There are people saying they are against a border but have no problem with border posts going up because that's what the EU want.

As for Irexit, I'm not in favour. I am in favour of standing up for ourselves in Europe, and in that I seem to be the only one around here.

One popular view I've read here is that we stick up border posts, hope the Northern economy tanks and then they coming running to us.

Wishing misery on the North, great idea.

There's very little appetite now or for at least 50 years for a United Ireland particularly in the North. I can't see a group like the DUP ever being in favour.

ToBeFrank123 · 30-08-2019 11:57PM

54and56 wrote: »

Johnson might be able to bully and sideline the HoC but he won't bully the EU and we are part of the EU.

Ah back to the old bullying accusations that have served us so well lately.

54and56 · 30-08-2019 11:59PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

There are people saying they are against a border but have no problem with border posts going up because that's what the EU want.

No, people are not saying that. They/we are saying that Ireland will (and wants to) protect the integrity of the Single Market and to do that we have to secure our borders. If we don't we can't be members. Why is that so hard for you to understand? No one wants to to put up a border but we're not giving up our membership of the Single Market just because BoJo & co decide to implement a reckless hard version of Brexit.

ToBeFrank123 · 31-08-2019 12:04AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

No deal. Nothing. No mini deals.

Then wait for England to come crawling back looking for a free trade agreement.

Present the WA without transition, wait for them to sign. Wait 25 years if necessary.

I don't think they'll care in 25 years.

BKtje · 31-08-2019 12:11AM

To be totally honest I don't care much about the North, or rather I care as much about the North as I do Liverpool. It's a place with people onto which I wish no ill.

The people who cross the border daily are a casualty of the idiocy of the UK as a whole who wish to partake in Brexit. I do not feel as the North is any more part of "Ireland" (the republic, not the Island) as Manchester or Yorkshire. While i respect the people who have fought (not killed!) for their ideals it remains a foreign concept to me this wish to "unite" the country as it hasn't been united for centuries.

If the Northern Irish, much like the rest of the UK, wish to remain part of the EU it is up to them to protest in mass and show us. Up to now they haven't so while I feel sorry for them it's no more or less than I feel for the rest of the UK.

I realise this point of view will annoy some but honestly it's how I've always felt. I feel no link to the north apart from the slight economic one so this talk of "uniting" our country is totally foreign to me.

L1011 · 31-08-2019 12:11AM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

As for Irexit, I'm not in favour. I am in favour of standing up for ourselves in Europe, and in that I seem to be the only one around here.

We have stood up for ourselves. The EU has not agreed a deal that screws us over in favour of the larger nations - which is precisely what Davis, Johnson et al expected they'd do.

ToBeFrank123 · 31-08-2019 12:16AM

L1011 wrote: »

We have stood up for ourselves. The EU has not agreed a deal that screws us over in favour of the larger nations - which is precisely what Davis, Johnson et al expected they'd do.

And after 31st October if the UK leaves? Where are we then? The EU will move on to something else.

reslfj · 31-08-2019 12:19AM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I don't think they'll care in 25 years.

Much, much longer than than the UK can afford to wait.

It will not only fairly fast return to be the 'sick man of Europe' - it will be in 'intensive care' by the IMF and World Bank too. Enjoy :rolleyes:

Lars

johnnyskeleton · 31-08-2019 12:28AM

Mod note:

Please dont personalise the debate or call people trolls. If you suspect someone is trolling, please report the posts and we will look into it.

CrabRevolution · 31-08-2019 12:31AM

BarryD2 wrote: »

That's a ridiculous extrapolation of what I said and you do your argument no favours. What skin have you got in the game? Do you care? Or is it all a great game to do down the Brits?

I'm an Irishman first and a EU citizen second. I'm glad we're in the EU, appreciative of the benefits and wish the UK were staying in too. But they're not as things stand and that's going cause serious grief here.

I don't think we can back down from the 'Backstop' now and our fate is pretty much outside our control. All we hope is that the moderate voices in Britain can get their act together and either have a general election and/or a confirmatory referendum.

Your argument seems to be: "we need to stop this emotional nonsense and submit to the UKs demands, for the sake of practicality".

But then when it's pointed out that the most practical option is to deal with the rest of the EU, you respond by saying that your emotional attachment to the UK outweighs any practical benefits you might get from dealing with the rest of the EU?

L1011 · 31-08-2019 12:36AM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

And after 31st October if the UK leaves? Where are we then? The EU will move on to something else.

The UK are going to be knocking down the door pleading for a deal to cope with the food, medicine and power shortages. The Sunlit Uplands are actually badly capped piles of nuclear waste.

Charles Babbage · 31-08-2019 12:38AM

BKtje wrote: »

The people who cross the border daily are a casualty of the idiocy of the UK as a whole who wish to partake in Brexit. I do not feel as the North is any more part of "Ireland" (the republic, not the Island) as Manchester or Yorkshire. While i respect the people who have fought (not killed!) for their ideals it remains a foreign concept to me this wish to "unite" the country as it hasn't been united for centuries.

Really? So the citizens of Blacklion are your fellow citizens, while those of Belcoo are not? If you met a person from Belleek and one from Ballyshannon would you be able to tell them apart? You don't regard Seamus Heaney as an Irish poet?

Stop trying to get a rise out of people.

Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

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