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And another one's gone, and another one

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  • 28-08-2019 10:21am
    #1
    Ceepo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,513 ✭✭✭


    Its certainly a bad news week on the doping front for athletics, or maybe it's a good week for anti doping.
    Try as we might to defend the integrity of athltics, with news such as this, it seems an up hill struggle.
    While I'm sure there are many clean athlete out there its gets increasing harder to believe that the sport is winning the battle against PED's.

    Can we really believe what we will see in Doha? Or will we be looking back in 2,4 or 6 years saying we suspected x or y athlete was juiced as the confirmation of a positive test emerge's

    I dont want to think that the sport is "rotten" as described by some on another thread.. but by God its does challenge my believes...

    I always had some doubts about certain athletes and their performance and still do... maybe I was just naive about the rest...
    As the old saying goes... if it seems to good to be true........

    https://www.flotrack.org/articles/6559079-former-world-champ-marina-arzamasova-busted-for-doping

    https://www.flotrack.org/articles/6559259-teen-star-briana-williams-tests-positive-for-banned-substance


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    #2
    nannerby
    Registered Users Posts: 362 ✭✭nannerby


    Ceepo wrote: »
    Its certainly a bad news week on the doping front for athletics, or maybe it's a good week for anti doping.
    Try as we might to defend the integrity of athltics, with news such as this, it seems an up hill struggle.


    I always had some doubts about certain athletes and their performance and still do... maybe I was just naive about the rest...

    https://www.flotrack.org/articles/6559079-former-world-champ-marina-arzamasova-busted-for-doping

    https://www.flotrack.org/articles/6559259-teen-star-briana-williams-tests-positive-for-banned-substance

    Its just another bad week for athletics I watched for years as the sport got dirtier and dirtier before giving up on it.Im back watching now but don't believe il see many/if any clean athletes medalling in the world champs.


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    #3
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,684 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    What exactly is winning the battle?

    When do people say we are winning, or have won?

    Can't happen, and won't happen. People cheat. Always have and always will...

    And even when caught, will fight tooth and nail, with encouragement and backing and deception to get off....no different to any walk of life...

    In the world of sport, athletics is fighting fairly hard to make the sport as clean as possible. That winning?


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    #4
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    walshb wrote: »
    What exactly is winning the battle?

    When do people say we are winning, or have won?

    Can't happen, and won't happen. People cheat. Always have and always will...

    And even when caught, will fight tooth and nail, with encouragement and backing and deception to get off....no different to any walk of life...

    In the world of sport, athletics is fighting fairly hard to make the sport as clean as possible. That winning?



    They will never win the battle but they can do a better job by doing the following:
    • Former cheats not allowed to coach in the sport
    • Lifetime bans
    • Ban agents, where more than 3 of their athletes get caught cheating
    • Ban coaches where more than 3 of their athletes get caught cheating
    • Ensure all countries have the require level of drug testing and if not, remove them from the sport.


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    #5
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,115 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Not the same. Williams will be let off.


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    #6
    Chivito550
    Registered Users Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    What do people expect? You test more, you catch more. You test less, you catch less. Do you really expect a sport with high testing to bring in no positives? If you do, then you're a fool.

    Athletics is no dirtier than any other professional sport. It simply tests better.

    Would you rather athletics took the approach of the NFL and hand out 4 week bans for a first offence? Would you rather it took football's approach and refuse to step in when the top league in the world (La Liga) had no valid testing for 9 months? Would you rather the approach of tennis and football that makes no concerted effort to rid their sports of doping?

    Would you rather athletics didn't test and therefore didn't have any positive tests? Our sport would be 'clean' by this logic.

    I'm delighted when big names get busted. The whole point of anti-doping is to 1) catch cheats and 2) act as a deterrent for those thinking about cheating. The sport will never be fully clean, nor will any other sport. But athletics is lightyears ahead of other sports (bar cycling) in terms of anti-doping procedures and transparency.

    The biggest mistake athletics and cycling have made in terms of PR was actually be transparent and publish failed tests. If they took the football and tennis approach from the get go, fools would think our sport was drug free too.


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    #7
    Ceepo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,513 ✭✭✭Ceepo


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    What do people expect? You test more, you catch more. You test less, you catch less. Do you really expect a sport with high testing to bring in no positives? If you do, then you're a fool.

    Athletics is no dirtier than any other professional sport. It simply tests better.

    Would you rather athletics took the approach of the NFL and hand out 4 week bans for a first offence? Would you rather it took football's approach and refuse to step in when the top league in the world (La Liga) had no valid testing for 9 months? Would you rather the approach of tennis and football that makes no concerted effort to rid their sports of doping?

    Would you rather athletics didn't test and therefore didn't have any positive tests? Our sport would be 'clean' by this logic.

    I'm delighted when big names get busted. The whole point of anti-doping is to 1) catch cheats and 2) act as a deterrent for those thinking about cheating. The sport will never be fully clean, nor will any other sport. But athletics is lightyears ahead of other sports (bar cycling) in terms of anti-doping procedures and transparency.

    The biggest mistake athletics and cycling have made in terms of PR was actually be transparent and publish failed tests. If they took the football and tennis approach from the get go, fools would think our sport was drug free too.

    While I cant say im delighted that big names get busted, it is encouraging to know that at the very least the governing body of Athletics and cycling are not burying their head in the sand like most other sports.
    I certainly agree with the rest of your post.


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    #8
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,684 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    The athletics bashing regarding PEDs is nauseating...

    There seems to be no real balance. It's slate slate slate.....and a sh1t load of igniorance


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    #9
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    What do people expect? You test more, you catch more. You test less, you catch less. Do you really expect a sport with high testing to bring in no positives? If you do, then you're a fool.

    Athletics is no dirtier than any other professional sport. It simply tests better.

    Would you rather athletics took the approach of the NFL and hand out 4 week bans for a first offence? Would you rather it took football's approach and refuse to step in when the top league in the world (La Liga) had no valid testing for 9 months? Would you rather the approach of tennis and football that makes no concerted effort to rid their sports of doping?

    Would you rather athletics didn't test and therefore didn't have any positive tests? Our sport would be 'clean' by this logic.

    I'm delighted when big names get busted. The whole point of anti-doping is to 1) catch cheats and 2) act as a deterrent for those thinking about cheating. The sport will never be fully clean, nor will any other sport. But athletics is lightyears ahead of other sports (bar cycling) in terms of anti-doping procedures and transparency.

    The biggest mistake athletics and cycling have made in terms of PR was actually be transparent and publish failed tests. If they took the football and tennis approach from the get go, fools would think our sport was drug free too.

    From my point of view, I don't think athletics is any worst than any sport but instead the same as other sports. To win in it, there is a strong possibility you are dirty. Same for tennis, soccer, nfl etc.

    I know what I am watching these days is due to drugs and I can sit back, watch and still enjoy it, also knowing I am not living in dreamland believing its all real.


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    #10
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    What do people expect? You test more, you catch more. You test less, you catch less. Do you really expect a sport with high testing to bring in no positives? If you do, then you're a fool.

    Athletics is no dirtier than any other professional sport. It simply tests better.

    Would you rather athletics took the approach of the NFL and hand out 4 week bans for a first offence? Would you rather it took football's approach and refuse to step in when the top league in the world (La Liga) had no valid testing for 9 months? Would you rather the approach of tennis and football that makes no concerted effort to rid their sports of doping?

    Would you rather athletics didn't test and therefore didn't have any positive tests? Our sport would be 'clean' by this logic.

    I'm delighted when big names get busted. The whole point of anti-doping is to 1) catch cheats and 2) act as a deterrent for those thinking about cheating. The sport will never be fully clean, nor will any other sport. But athletics is lightyears ahead of other sports (bar cycling) in terms of anti-doping procedures and transparency.

    The biggest mistake athletics and cycling have made in terms of PR was actually be transparent and publish failed tests. If they took the football and tennis approach from the get go, fools would think our sport was drug free too.

    Its great the cheats are getting caught, but what's the point when they are allowed back in 2-4 years later when the effect of the drugs can still be used to gain an advantage?


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    #11
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,684 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    average_runner wrote: »
    From my point of view, I don't think athletics is any worst than any sport but instead the same as other sports. To win in it, there is a strong possibility you are dirty. Same for tennis, soccer, nfl etc.

    I know what I am watching these days is due to drugs and I can sit back, watch and still enjoy it, also knowing I am not living in dreamland believing its all real.

    To win at tennis you likely have to cheat? So, Murray and Fed and Nole and Nadal and Wawrinka, to name a few, need to cheat to beat their opposition? So when you watch Fed still winning slams and still being ultra competitive in his 30s, you can't see past drugs? It's not like any of the payers named here are monsters, and unbeatable. They have all lost to each other, and to many others as well.

    Sports like cycling and track are more tempting to use these types of drugs. Not saying tennis cannot benefit, but it's not near the same as cycling and track....

    Fed and the rest are fit because they train hard and eat well etc, as well as being fantastic athletes on a court. They are simply being themselves. Drugs like EPO and steroids and HGH etc will benefit other type sports starts a lot more than a tennis player.


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    #12
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,845 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    walshb wrote: »
    To win at tennis you likely have to cheat? So, Murray and Fed and Nole and Nadal and Wawrinka, to name a few, need to cheat to beat their opposition? So when you watch Fed still winning slams and still being ultra competitive in his 30s, you can't see past drugs? It's not like any of the payers named here are monsters, and unbeatable. They have all lost to each other, and to many others as well.

    Sports like cycling and track are more tempting to use these types of drugs. Not saying tennis cannot benefit, but it's not near the same as cycling and track....

    Fed and the rest are fit because they train hard and eat well etc, as well as being fantastic athletes on a court. They are simply being themselves. Drugs like EPO and steroids and HGH etc will benefit other type sports starts a lot more than a tennis player.

    If drugs don't have a great benefit in tennis, why do all the testing?


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    #13
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,684 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    average_runner wrote: »
    If drugs don't have a great benefit in tennis, why do all the testing?

    No one said it cannot benefit.

    But it's not near the same type sport as track, and not near the same risk/reward either.

    Tennis players are fit. Track runners, and particularly middle and long, are super super fit. Huge difference; hence EPO and some other endurance type PEDs are a lot more attractive/beneficial. Fitness is important in tennis, but not to the same level as track, not near.......

    And no, 4-5-6 hr matches......plenty plenty breaks....and the players are not getting faster or stronger during the later hours; they are visibly tiring...


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    #14
    Fusitive
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭Fusitive


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    What do people expect? You test more, you catch more. You test less, you catch less. Do you really expect a sport with high testing to bring in no positives? If you do, then you're a fool.

    Athletics is no dirtier than any other professional sport. It simply tests better.

    Would you rather athletics took the approach of the NFL and hand out 4 week bans for a first offence? Would you rather it took football's approach and refuse to step in when the top league in the world (La Liga) had no valid testing for 9 months? Would you rather the approach of tennis and football that makes no concerted effort to rid their sports of doping?

    Would you rather athletics didn't test and therefore didn't have any positive tests? Our sport would be 'clean' by this logic.

    I'm delighted when big names get busted. The whole point of anti-doping is to 1) catch cheats and 2) act as a deterrent for those thinking about cheating. The sport will never be fully clean, nor will any other sport. But athletics is lightyears ahead of other sports (bar cycling) in terms of anti-doping procedures and transparency.

    The biggest mistake athletics and cycling have made in terms of PR was actually be transparent and publish failed tests. If they took the football and tennis approach from the get go, fools would think our sport was drug free too.

    I get what you are saying but I then realise that I don't care about those other sports as much and the comparisons. It still annoys me just how widespread doping is in athletics. These comparisons have been made here for years and the same things are been said now as were said before we found out half the IAAF board were corrupt and taking bribes to cover up positive tests, before we knew that the KGB were infiltrating the WADA testing lab in Russia, before we knew that some of the biggest star sprinters in the World were going months without OOC testing in Jamaica, that over 13 countries had absolutely no testing facilities and that one of the most dominant training groups in the World was caught red handed with EPO vials and syringes in a hotel room in Sadabell and has gone unpunished.

    So I personally don't care about how athletics compares to the NFL or Tennis and all those deflector tactics, I care about the health of athletics full stop.


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