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Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

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  • #2432
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    There’s the source

    https://twitter.com/colettebrowne/status/1166689431983730688?s=21

    To which the opposition say they'll ignore and sit at Church House. What a mess that would be.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/27/mps-pledge-form-alternative-parliament-prorogation-church-house-declaration-brexit


  • #2433
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    To which the opposition say they'll ignore and sit at Church House. What a mess that would be.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/27/mps-pledge-form-alternative-parliament-prorogation-church-house-declaration-brexit

    So two parliaments in effect? What happens then?


  • #2434
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,069 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    So two parliaments in effect? What happens then?


    Constitutional crisis


  • #2435
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    I don't know how Bercow could say no . It's a new parliament. What precedent could he use ?

    Previously it wasn't a new anything, was just May looking for ways to bring back the same vote multiple times.

    Now it's not a new parliament, it's a new set of people sat on the front row of the left hand set of benches. A new PM and cabinet, but it's not like they have a Queens Speech each time you get a cabinet reshuffle. They are approximately meant to have one each year though, so are overdue, but a new PM or cabinet isn't the trigger for it.


  • #2436
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,487 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    No more one-liners please. Posts deleted.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • #2437
    ltd440
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 279 ✭✭ltd440


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Enzokk wrote: »
    How can Johnson support the WA when he himself has castigated it and calling it undemocratic? Or is the thinking he will accidentally bring it back and have people vote on it, then support it or not?

    I don't follow this thinking. Either he will own it and will lose Tory support to the Brexit Party who will hammer him on it in a new election (majority of only 1, remember), or he will distance himself from it in which case it has 0% chance of going through.

    He and Cummings clearly have a very specific plan with a desired outcome. The question is whether it is actually No Deal or a WA.....it's anyone's guess
    This. No one seems to know what the UK government is going to do but as David Davies kept on saying the deal will be only done at the very last possible moment. I think they're going down this route now. Trying to panic hoc and EU into accepting into whatever plans cummings and Johnson have


  • #2438
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    The EU could not have written a better script here.

    The UK are pulling themselves in to a constitutional crisis.

    The EU has not done anything except negotiate a deal with the British govt and then sit on the sidelines and watch the chaos unfold. None of what is happening now can be blamed on them. This is all on the Tories.

    I have no idea where we go from here.


  • #2439
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,311 ✭✭✭✭briany


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    To which the opposition say they'll ignore and sit at Church House. What a mess that would be.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/27/mps-pledge-form-alternative-parliament-prorogation-church-house-declaration-brexit

    I'm not sure I understand. In the event where the official parliament is suspended, wouldn't MPs convening somewhere else just be people sitting in a room with no actual power to do anything?


  • #2440
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,069 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Gunner Jay Davidson wrote: »
    I think we can all agree that this increases the chance of a no-deal Brexit tenfold and the only good thing coming out of that is an increase in the chances of a united Ireland.


    Not neccessarily a good thing as neither country is anywhere near ready for it socialiy, culturally or economically, would have been far better for it to naturally happen over the next 10-20+ years instead of being forced due to brexit within the next 5


  • #2441
    briany
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,311 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Gunner Jay Davidson wrote: »
    I think we can all agree that this increases the chance of a no-deal Brexit tenfold and the only good thing coming out of that is an increase in the chances of a united Ireland.

    Depends on what happens after a no-deal Brexit. For example, you could get the situation where a hard border renews IRA activity and the Troubles in general, polarising both communities and ensuring that there'll be no crossing the aisle, so to speak.


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  • #2442
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,803 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Gunner Jay Davidson wrote: »
    I think we can all agree that this increases the chance of a no-deal Brexit tenfold and the only good thing coming out of that is an increase in the chances of a united Ireland.

    I wouldn't be so sure. It looks like the whole Brexit saga is going to blow up in the next 3-4 weeks. It's anyone's guess what will happen or where this will go.....even the UK pundits are stumped.


  • #2443
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    briany wrote: »
    Depends on what happens after a no-deal Brexit. For example, you could get the situation where a hard border renews IRA activity and the Troubles in general, polarising both communities and ensuring that there'll be no crossing the aisle, so to speak.

    Nobody at all would support the provos kicking off again or any loyalist group.


  • #2444
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,722 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    The UK are pulling themselves in to a constitutional crisis.

    And a likely outcome is that we'll be sucked down with them. Why is our government so quiet? The public here should be getting full disclosure from our leaders. Instead we're being kept in the dark, that they can't talk openly about the horse in the room because they don't want to make it bolt. We're just supposed to pretend we don't see anything and hope for the best. Not very convincing and if it goes pear shaped - then our Leo and FG are going to take a right hiding.


  • #2445
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,647 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    briany wrote: »
    Yes, it will affect us here, so the more time we and our government have to prepare, the better.

    Nah, I no longer see an Irish / EU benefit to prolonging the process. There were theories of rolling on extensions to let Brexit fade away but all that the last extension achieved was a greater extremism to UK politics and an essential deterioration of its societal discourse. It's time to go.


  • #2446
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,277 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I don't think anyone wants to be left holding that baby (Northern Ireland).


  • #2447
    Igotadose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,774 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    Nobody at all would support the provos kicking off again or any loyalist group.

    Do you think that'll stop them? No one (admits) to supporting them now, do they? And yet, there's bombs and shootings, albeit rarely, still happening.

    And as has been pointed out a lot lately, Brexit and Irish Identity in NI are a big challenge if there's a no deal. NI needs special handling, UK are too clueless to understand that, they think it's just about a border. That's just one problem.


  • #2448
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Looks like the resolve has hardened on the EU side given Boris Johnson's antics. Coveney now saying no change acceptable on the backstop.

    https://twitter.com/antoguerrera/status/1166705649859878913


  • #2449
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    The Donald weighs in

    Would be very hard for Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of Britain’s Labour Party, to seek a no-confidence vote against New Prime Minister Boris Johnson, especially in light of the fact that Boris is exactly what the U.K. has been looking for, & will prove to be “a great one!” Love U.K.


  • #2450
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,855 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Gunner Jay Davidson wrote: »
    I think we can all agree that this increases the chance of a no-deal Brexit tenfold and the only good thing coming out of that is an increase in the chances of a united Ireland.
    If that was the intention, why October 14th? If that's what you want, why not delay the Queen's speech until the 1st November?


  • #2451
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,785 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Not neccessarily a good thing as neither country is anywhere near ready for it socialiy, culturally or economically, would have been far better for it to naturally happen over the next 10-20+ years instead of being forced due to brexit within the next 5

    when do you expect to be 'ready' for it?

    these things don't happen in an instant.. it would probably take a decade long transition period after a vote anyway


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  • #2452
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Nah, I no longer see an Irish / EU benefit to prolonging the process. There were theories of rolling on extensions to let Brexit fade away but all that the last extension achieved was a greater extremism to UK politics and an essential deterioration of its societal discourse. It's time to go.
    Logic has gone out of the window in the UK. Just read some of the comments here, or some of the people that phone into radio shows in the UK. Things are made up, lies and deceit, and confusion abound; just to justify the idea that the EU is the root of all evil in the UK.
    Brexit has to happen. It needs to happen. It's the only way that there's a possibility of these people realising that Britain's problems are 99.9% the fault of their own politicians and their own making. Britain staying in the EU at this point will only fuel their illogical rage, and only opens up more issues for the EU when Brexit happens further down the road.


  • #2453
    Enrico Palazzo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 553 ✭✭✭Enrico Palazzo


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    You are ignoring my post here
    Not sure, I'm following you. Are you saying the leaflet assumes the WA would include a bad deal for the UK and advises that it could take them years to get a better one? That's not what it says.


  • #2454
    trellheim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,193 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Guido fawkes announcing the queens agreed to prorogue



    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1166709230709149697

    (obligatory hory shee)


  • #2455
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    robinph wrote: »
    Previously it wasn't a new anything, was just May looking for ways to bring back the same vote multiple times.

    Now it's not a new parliament, it's a new set of people sat on the front row of the left hand set of benches. A new PM and cabinet, but it's not like they have a Queens Speech each time you get a cabinet reshuffle. They are approximately meant to have one each year though, so are overdue, but a new PM or cabinet isn't the trigger for it.

    I meant if BJ prorogues and has a new QS. Then it is a new parliament so Bercow would have to allow the withdrawal deal at least once more


  • #2456
    fash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭fash


    Berserker wrote: »
    No they don't. The democratic wish of the British people takes precedence over everything else anyway. The people voted for Brexit and Boris is going to deliver it, as promised.

    If you honestly believe that why are you so petrified of having asking the people if this is what they want?


  • #2457
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,103 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    If that was the intention, why October 14th? If that's what you want, why not delay the Queen's speech until the 1st November?

    They hace significantly reduced the time available to debate and vote, whilst having the impression that they are not stopping parliament.

    1st November would have no defence. It is all about giving just enough cover to carry on the farce and avoid being directly blamed.


  • #2458
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    lawred2 wrote: »
    when do you expect to be 'ready' for it?

    these things don't happen in an instant.. it would probably take a decade long transition period after a vote anyway

    I’d agree. But we’re far better at running refs than the British. Every element of the changeover and implementation and integration would be examined down the the last full stop and prepared before it was even put to the inevitable citizens assemblies on it.

    I agree we shouldn’t rush into it but I do think it’s now inevitable


  • #2459
    j8wk2feszrnpao
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,438 ✭✭✭j8wk2feszrnpao


    trellheim wrote: »
    Guido fawkes announcing the queens agreed to prorogue
    It is kinda funny though. An unelected PM goes to an unelected head of state, to suspend the elected Parliament.


  • #2460
    c_murph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40 ✭c_murph


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

    The EU has not done anything except negotiate a deal with the British govt and then sit on the sidelines and watch the chaos unfold. None of what is happening now can be blamed on them. This is all on the Tories.

    I have no idea where we go from here.

    Exactly, they have the same choices that have been on the table since 2018.
    1. No Deal
    2. No Brexit
    3. Withdrawal Agreement - either this one or if the UK come up with an alternative to the Backstop that delivers at least as good a result.

    The chaos on London is all for the domestic audience, the EU won't change the final options now just because BJ has prorogued Parliament or will hold an election or whatever else he and Cummings may be planning to get something through / around Parliament.

    For the Tories both 1 and 2 will likely be a split that may end the party as it is. Best option to preserve them is 3 - lose the ERG, but only those hardliners. Out of power for ten years and then back in.


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  • #2461
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    munstermagic11 wrote: »
    It is kinda funny though. An unelected PM goes to an unelected head of state, to suspend the elected Parliament.

    The fact that a monarch is in any way involved in this doesn't exactly scream democracy in action, but try telling the brits that.


This discussion has been closed.
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