Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

MarinersBlues · 28-08-2019 12:03PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I think the DUP finally see the bus they’re going under is coming. They’d best tread very carefully with their demands I’d say.

‘DUP says terms of the confidence and supply agreement with Tory minority government will be reviewed in advanced of the new parliamentary session’

This is nearly entirely their doing.

If the backstop had been applied to the North, as the majority there want in the case of Brexit, and not to Britain the deal would have passed and we would have a workable solution.

The fact that they couldn't see that this is where they would end up, since campaigning for Brexit right up until now is just mystifying.

brickster69 · 28-08-2019 12:04PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

What did it say?

Dunno, threw it in the bin.

Stop moaning ffs · 28-08-2019 12:05PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Can't be seen to support Johnson if/when he's putting pressure on Her Majesty.

They have actually supported it.

Am completely shocked by that but they have

Stop moaning ffs · 28-08-2019 12:05PM

DUP statement

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1166667914872836096?s=21

Professor Moriarty · 28-08-2019 12:06PM

brickster69 wrote: »

Dunno, threw it in the bin.

Hmmm. So, when did Leave voters definitively know they would be voting for No Deal?

A Dub in Glasgo · 28-08-2019 12:12PM

brickster69 wrote: »

Every single household in the UK received a booklet in the post. It explained very clearly what leave meant. That was sent by the Government which wanted to remain.

Our household did not get the booklet you are referring to

Calina · 28-08-2019 12:12PM

brickster69 wrote: »

Dunno, threw it in the bin.

Clearly you did not read it then, or you would know.

Seth Brundle · 28-08-2019 12:12PM

brickster69 wrote: »

Every single household in the UK received a booklet in the post. It explained very clearly what leave meant. That was sent by the Government which wanted to remain.

Is this it?
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/525022/20160523_Leaflet_EASY_READ_FINAL_VERSION.pdf

Christy42 · 28-08-2019 12:13PM

brickster69 wrote: »

No one voted for a deal either. They voted to Leave which is as far as i understand the opposite of remain.

So what. No one voted for no deal so blocking it isn't blocking the will of the people.

Blocking a parliament, voted for by the people after the official opinion poll, is blocking the will of the people. The people knew that parliament is sovereign. If they voted for remainers or soft brexiteers it must be their will now.

Professor Moriarty · 28-08-2019 12:16PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Is this it?
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/525022/20160523_Leaflet_EASY_READ_FINAL_VERSION.pdf

No Deal isn't mentioned in that. Must be some mistake.

ancapailldorcha · 28-08-2019 12:18PM

brickster69 wrote: »

Every single household in the UK received a booklet in the post. It explained very clearly what leave meant. That was sent by the Government which wanted to remain.

brickster69 wrote: »

Dunno, threw it in the bin.

Stop posting like this please. It is not remotely constructive. Next instance will result in a ban.

BarryD2 · 28-08-2019 12:22PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I think the DUP finally see the bus they’re going under is coming. They’d best tread very carefully with their demands I’d say.

‘DUP says terms of the confidence and supply agreement with Tory minority government will be reviewed in advanced of the new parliamentary session’

Well the DUP will naturally try to muddy the waters if an election is in prospect. We may expect of a bit of rewriting of recent history but sure they're all good at that. All they need to do on both sides is to revert to the tribal message and they'll all be returned more or less as is.

Enrico Palazzo · 28-08-2019 12:22PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

No Deal isn't mentioned in that. Must be some mistake.

Actually, it is. Under 'Leave' it reads: "The Government thinks that this would make it hard to agree a good, new deal quickly with the EU."

Stop moaning ffs · 28-08-2019 12:23PM

This is unprecedented right? Nobody in the EU set up ever comments on the internal matters of one of the member states.

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1166671928716926976?s=21

Stop moaning ffs · 28-08-2019 12:24PM

BarryD2 wrote: »

Well the DUP will naturally try to muddy the waters if an election is in prospect. We may expect of a bit of rewriting of recent history but sure they're all good at that. All they need to do on both sides is to revert to the tribal message and they'll all be returned more or less as is.

I think they’re going to be slaughtered in the next election up there. All the signs point to that happening. Their own base is livid with them.

brickster69 · 28-08-2019 12:26PM

Calina wrote: »

Clearly you did not read it then, or you would know.

Had a quick skip through and saw. " This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide "

Question was to leave or remain in the EU. Answer was Leave so that was the result.

Professor Moriarty · 28-08-2019 12:26PM

Enrico Palazzo wrote: »

Actually, it is. Under 'Leave' it reads: "The Government thinks that this would make it hard to agree a good, new deal quickly with the EU."

No. What that sentence says is that agreeing a deal with the EU would take time and be difficult. It's right about that as events have shown. It doesn't say No Deal will happen if you vote Leave.

A Dub in Glasgo · 28-08-2019 12:29PM

Enrico Palazzo wrote: »

Actually, it is. Under 'Leave' it reads: "The Government thinks that this would make it hard to agree a good, new deal quickly with the EU."

That is not referring to the Withdrawal Agreement as pre-referendum it was 99% inconcievable that the UK would leave the EU without a withdrawal agreement (ie an agreement that permits an orderly withdrawal from the EU). that extract is referring to the trade deal

Enrico Palazzo · 28-08-2019 12:30PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

No. What that sentence says is that agreeing a deal with the EU would take time and be difficult. It's right about that as events have shown. It doesn't say No Deal will happen if you vote Leave.

Then read the whole of pages 11 & 12, it's all right there.

BarryD2 · 28-08-2019 12:31PM

Shelga wrote: »

Why would the Queen agree to this?

Be interesting to see what happens. Reading between the lines and the spin, it appears that the queen is not entirely convinced about the benefits of Brexit and in particular a No Deal Brexit for her 'nation'.

The monarchy is supposed to be separate from the civil powers but she does have options like our own president, to take a different stance. Can't see her wanting to be manipulated by Johnson like this, so expect a savvy response.

LeinsterDub · 28-08-2019 12:32PM

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

No.10 has threatened that in the event of VONC parliament will be dissolved (preventing any attempt to form unity gov) and an election held in 1st week of November.

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

How would they dissolve parliament? It would have to be voted on surely?

BarryD2 · 28-08-2019 12:33PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I think they’re going to be slaughtered in the next election up there. All the signs point to that happening. Their own base is livid with them.

Dream on

When push comes to shove, birds of a feather flock together.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 28-08-2019 12:36PM

trellheim wrote: »

Remember they cannot call a GE themselves - need VONC or 2/3 majority for that.

Another genius move by the lib democrats.

Stop moaning ffs · 28-08-2019 12:37PM

BarryD2 wrote: »

Dream on When push comes to shove, birds of a feather flock together.

There’s a lengthy list of all the business organizations farming orgs all sorts of entities that have come out against the dup stance on the backstop etc it represented all sectors of industry up there and none octhem are happy. Loads have pulled funding support for the dup too.

quodec · 28-08-2019 12:40PM

And the price of gold is gradually heading for €1400 per ounce. Maybe there is a crisis looming???

robinph · 28-08-2019 12:40PM

brickster69 wrote: »

Had a quick skip through and saw. " This is your decision. The government will implement what you decide "

Question was to leave or remain in the EU. Answer was Leave so that was the result.

What version of leave did the people decide on again?

There are still a million and one different versions of leaving being spun around infront of us, none of which anyone can agree on or have any benefit to the country in the slightest.

Jim2007 · 28-08-2019 12:41PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

This is unprecedented right? Nobody in the EU set up ever comments on the internal matters of one of the member states.

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1166671928716926976?s=21

Of course it is not unprecedented, you need to read more on current affairs, try reading a bit about Poland or Hungry for a start.

And we are not talking about something random internal affairs, we’re talking about a breach in fundamental democratic principles that could result in the UK’s membership being suspended. The UK’s government no longer feels it is no longer accountable to parliament - Poland and Hungry have not gone that far!

Stop moaning ffs · 28-08-2019 12:46PM

Jim2007 wrote: »

Of course it is not unprecedented, you need to read more on current affairs, try reading a bit about Poland or Hungry for a start.

And we are not talking about something random internal affairs, we’re talking about a breach in fundamental democratic principles that could result in the UK’s membership being suspended. The UK’s government no longer feels it is no longer accountable to parliament - Poland and Hungry have not gone that far!

The Eu can’t suspend the uk. You should read more current affairs.

Niska · 28-08-2019 12:50PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

What did it say?

This seems to be a repository of the leaflets from the referendum:

https://digital.library.lse.ac.uk/collections/brexit/2016

This is the only one attributed to HM Governmetn:
https://digital.library.lse.ac.uk/objects/lse:kox722civ

And this is the page re Leave in the above

https://digital.library.lse.ac.uk/objects/lse:kox722civ/read/single#page/8/mode/1up

It's split in roughly two parts, firstly states that leaving could lead up to 10 years of uncertainty as the UK unpicks it's relationship with EU

And the second part mentions a more limited trade deal would lead to more limited access of the Single Market.

No explicit mention of no deal / hard brexit or any thing else (Norway, Canada etc) - it's an incredibly poor piece of information for a government leaflet and certainly not neutral.

It's rather vague, and it is hard to believe anyone reading it would understand what leave meant (or the different type of options) - assuming of course they read it and didn't just bin it.

Jim2007 · 28-08-2019 12:53PM

BarryD2 wrote: »

The monarchy is supposed to be separate from the civil powers but she does have options like our own president, to take a different stance.

Well when an Irish President acts they do so based on a written constitution in acted by the people... the Queen would do so based on what exactly?

The truth is that the Queen’s so called powers are based on tradition and an unwritten constitution made up by the government of the day. When was the last time a monarch refused to dissolve parliament against the wishes of her prime minister?

They have a full blown constitutional crisis on their hands.

Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)

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